Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

But I like cookies...

Sometimes I eat them when I am reading the Good News book, you know the one, it says I am not saved by works but I am eternally saved by His grace.

Cookie<-----Now that is funny HAH........digressing from taking cake to cookies......

 

[blue_ladybug]

I wonder what God thinks about people who consider salvation to be a cookie..

 

[dcontroversal]

But I like cookies...

Sometimes I eat them when I am reading the Good News book, you know the one, it says I am not saved by works but I am eternally saved by His grace.

HAHAHAHHA yes, yes indeed I do.....and I fully agree.....

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast....

 

[dcontroversal]

I wonder what God thinks about people who consider salvation to be a cookie..

The same thing that he thinks about those who say it is an earned, worked for reward.....

Grace OR works....it cannot be both...and if works it is NO LONGER GRACE........

NO man can BOAST because it is a FREE gift given freely and eternally to all who genuinely believe.....

 

[Stephen63]

Right, just like I am free to say I did not ask you. What names did I call you???

You say the us and them mentality saddens your soul but you have your own breakdowns of us and them, I have seen it, so get sad all you want, defend the liars and pretenders all you want, pretend they do not do the same things over and over again and then act innocent or pretend it does not exist when their blatant lies are pointed out to them, where their exegetical errors are made clear to them, nothing changes them, they are hell bent on trying to destroying God's elect, they work for Satan, us and them, hmm, yeah, I stand with those on the side of God, there is a decided division, pick your side carefully, or pretend there are no sides, if you prefer.

BTW, many times those on the "other" side have stated "we don't judge & condemn others like they do", but here it is.

Here in this post "we" are hell bent to God's people's destruction, & working for Satan.

Now, what ever happened to "can't we all just get along?" Must have been a lapse in judgment, I guess.

Myself & some of the others like to use a lot of scripture to show how "Hell bent" we are.

God's word is always my first choice for weaponry. Nothing like the Sword of the Spirit to do a little destruction, is there?

I'm speaking sarcastically, of course.

I do that from time to time when "the other side" cries about being attacked while verbally scorching the righteous with malice & venomous ranting with no evidence or scripture.

 

[garee]

Paul and James are in perfect agreement as are all thoughts of God (not thoughts of Paul or James) scripture is not of any private interpretation as if Gods thoughts were ours.


Salvation is a work according to ones perceived belief called a "work of faith" as a "labor" of that persons love, it as a earned reward called grace is freely given to His new creature the church she is made up of many lively stone that does make up the spiritual house of God not seen . So then it’s not a matter of do we need a work in order to have salvation…. but who did the work other then our faithful Creator.

The corrupted creature falls short of that glory . It is the wrath of God revealed from heaven.

It would seem to be another of those what God has joined together let man not call separate, or what God calls separate, let no man call together . Can’t separate faith from works knowing it is God who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. We work it out like marriage…. not work to gain it.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12

Same imputed righteousness coming from the work of God working according to His faith working in Abraham to both will and do the good pleasure of God . By that work of Christ faith the work was made perfect complete

Paul in Philippians and James in James say the say thing

Was not Abraham our father "justified by works", when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and "it" was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul and James are in perfect agreement as are all thoughts of God (not thoughts of Paul or James) scripture is not of any private interpretation as if Gods thoughts were ours.


Salvation is a work according to ones perceived belief called a "work of faith" as a "labor" of that persons love, it as a earned reward called grace is freely given to His new creature the church she is made up of many lively stone that does make up the spiritual house of God not seen . So then it’s not a matter of do we need a work in order to have salvation…. but who did the work other then our faithful Creator.

The corrupted creature falls short of that glory . It is the wrath of God revealed from heaven.

It would seem to be another of those what God has joined together let man not call separate, or what God calls separate, let no man call together . Can’t separate faith from works knowing it is God who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. We work it out like marriage…. not work to gain it.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12

Same imputed righteousness coming from the work of God working according to His faith working in Abraham to both will and do the good pleasure of God . By that work of Christ faith the work was made perfect complete

Paul in Philippians and James in James say the say thing

Was not Abraham our father "justified by works", when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and "it" was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21

The problem with quotes like this....immediate contradictions.....earned reward freely given<--wow

 

[garee]

I wonder what God thinks about people who consider salvation to be a cookie..

The Manna kind ? Doesn’t get much sweeter than honey.

Peanut butter with bits of Bit of Honey . Two dozen please

Exo 16:31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

 

[FranC]

Keep reading.

Folks are only confused when they read half the message.

"I believe faith means to trust fully in God and His ability to save us. This trust will lead us to obey Him because he will add to our faith"

Do you disagree with the above statement?

I say you add to my words that I tell people to be disobedient to God's laws and it's not necessary.
.I have said no such thing.

.I have told people if they have faith and trust fully in God He will lead them to obey His commandments to love God and love one another.

Why are you tearing into me for the fact you only read half of my statement?

I've never accused anyone here of saying that they believe sinning is OK.

What I've have said is that it should be made PLAIN AND CLEAR that we are TO OBEY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS with no hesitation to declare same --- since not doing so makes it SEEM as though obeying is not very important.

You ask if I agree with this statement of yours:

"I believe faith means to trust fully in God and His ability to save us. This trust will lead us to obey Him because he will add to our faith"

I don't know what you mean by "He will add to our faith".

Faith is faith. Some have little, some have a lot. Whatever one has is sufficient for salvation.
But we MUST obey God no matter how much faith we have. Even if we have little because we're new Christians, it has to be understood that Jesus did not abolish the Commandments, which is the Law of God.

If we want to be called a Christian, it entails obeying. Whatever the reason may be is inconsequential --- We must obey.
It is Jesus' command.

Here we have obedience to the Law
and obedience of faith.

If we just follow the Law with no belief in God or love, then we are following works and I leave salvation in the hands of God.
If we are members of the Kingdom and love God and are born again, then we obey out of faith and can trust in Jesus for our salvation.

For the second sentence, we MUST OBEY, however we want to understand the reason.

 

[FranC]

Biblical definition of faith - Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith "is" the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Notice the writer of Hebrews did not say that faith "is" multiple acts of obedience or faith "is" works. The writer of Hebrews goes on to list multiple acts of obedience that were accomplished "by" or "out of" faith, yet these acts of obedience/works are the fruit of faith and not the essence of faith.

Faith involves belief, trust, reliance which results in obedience/good works, yet even though all genuine believers are fruitful, not all are equally fruitful.

MMD,

It's great to know the bible.
But knowing a little bit of theology doesn't hurt one's knowledge about God.

Hebrews 11 tells what Faith is.
Theology will teach that faith is alive.
Faith is an action.

I've often used the example of the elevator and will not bore you with it again.

FAITH IS AN ACTION.
The person who has faith, MOVES and acts on that faith.

 

[FranC]

Keep reading.

Folks are only confused when they read half the message.

"I believe faith means to trust fully in God and His ability to save us. This trust will lead us to obey Him because he will add to our faith"

Do you disagree with the above statement?

I say you add to my words that I tell people to be disobedient to God's laws and it's not necessary.
.I have said no such thing.

.I have told people if they have faith and trust fully in God He will lead them to obey His commandments to love God and love one another.

Why are you tearing into me for the fact you only read half of my statement?

I tear into you?
How?

I come across as being that mean???

Sorry if I do. It's not intentional.

 

[garee]

The problem with quotes like this....immediate contradictions.....earned reward freely given<--wow

Thanks for the reply…not sure what you are calling…. immediate contradictions

If he earned the reward and freely gives us it the as unmerited favor on His behalf we then can understand that ….without whose faith it would be impossible to please who? For if we walk by faith(the unseen eternal) we must believe we have come to someone who has no form so we can believe we are not just communing with the imagination of one own heart. Also called self talk.

He would not give us a reward that was not earned by someone who could perform it.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

3406 misthapodotes {mis-thap-od-ot'-ace}
from 3409 and 591; TDNT - 4:695,599; n m
AV - rewarder 1; 1
1) one who pays wages, a rewarder


Who pays the wage of our sin?

 

[FranC]

FranC, if you want an example of people adding man-made laws and traditions to God's two commanments, you can talk to the folks in this thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154485-truth-behind-law.html


Most are Hebrew roots and Saturday Sabbath keepers.

Not that I am saying they aren't followers of Jesus and some may actually be born again. Just that they have alot of man-made tradition and laws that they REQUIRE folks DO. Many support people keeping the Jewish feasts as well.

Ariel,

I checked out the above.

Read the first couple of pages. So far I don't see any legalism.
Pretty much what goes on around here. What does it mean that the Law was fulfilled, etc.

I DO like how the O.P. has it set up.
MAYBE Grace WILL STOP putting up so much scripture that I could never concentrate on any one idea. It's good to talk about one thing at a time...

THIS is leagalism to me:

You miss ONE Mass and you're going straight to hell.
You give up something for Lent and resent it for the entire time.
You don't join the choir and the pastor makes you feel guilty about it.
etc
etc.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks for the reply…not sure what you are calling…. immediate contradictions

If he earned the reward and freely gives us it the as unmerited favor on His behalf we then can understand that ….without whose faith it would be impossible to please who? For if we walk by faith(the unseen eternal) we must believe we have come to someone who has no form so we can believe we are not just communing with the imagination of one own heart. Also called self talk.

He would not give us a reward that was not earned by someone who could perform it.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

3406 misthapodotes {mis-thap-od-ot'-ace}
from 3409 and 591; TDNT - 4:695,599; n m
AV - rewarder 1; 1
1) one who pays wages, a rewarder


Wjo pays the wage of our sin?

Salvation is a gift given....it is not a reward for service....after salvation, which is freely given, one is rewarded for faithful service...

is seems as if you were saying salvation was earned as a reward.....!

 

[FranC]

This one is a little more obvious about folks who want to recreate Sabbath keeping laws..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149862-sabbath.html

If the 7th Day Adventists want to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, let them be happy.
But to make this a CONDITION for being Christian is what's wrong.

I actually replied to the O.P.
Here's what I said:


Every day is God's day.
THIS IS THE DAY WHICH THE LORD HAS MADE.

The Sabbath was for rest.
Jesus is our rest.

 

[Ariel82]

I wonder what God thinks about people who consider salvation to be a cookie..

Probably hand them an Apple cuz it's healthier?


All joking aside.,,Jesus said that some people only followed him because he gave them bread and fish to eat..,, not because they believed (aka trusted totally) in Him and His gospel.

 

[Ariel82]

If the 7th Day Adventists want to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, let them be happy.
But to make this a CONDITION for being Christian is what's wrong.

I actually replied to the O.P.
Here's what I said:


Every day is God's day.
THIS IS THE DAY WHICH THE LORD HAS MADE.

The Sabbath was for rest.
Jesus is our rest.

Yeah I know. That's why I wanted to show you it's not totally off the wall to mention man made laws in our discussion.

 

[FranC]

This Fran is why I make a distinction because I know you don't advocate Sabbath keeping on Saturday.., but you asked about man made laws...

Regading Beta's reply:

Here's why she's wrong...

There were three types of Law in the O.T.

Civil
Ceremonial
Moral

Jesus did abolish the Civil and Ceremonial.
HE DID NOT abolish the Moral Law.
God is a moral being and so that cannot be abolished.

Keeping the Sabbath was a ceremonial Law.
THAT HAS been abolished...

 

[Stephen63]

I believe we (all born again children of God) are required to OBEY two commandments: love God and love others.

If we disobey we get chastened....not tossed into hell.

Sometimes we fall short due to fear or ignorance and don't love God or others fully as we should, which is what I call sin. At those times God gives us grace and forgiveness and teaches us how to overcome both.

Too often people add man-made laws and traditions and try and enslave others with them, that is a sin.

Are we no longer required to stop stealing? Committing adultery? Honor our father & mother?

Yeah, I know a lot of people says those two covers the rest..... but not if they were never taught those others.

 

[Ariel82]

Regading Beta's reply:

Here's why she's wrong...

There were three types of Law in the O.T.

Civil
Ceremonial
Moral

Jesus did abolish the Civil and Ceremonial.
HE DID NOT abolish the Moral Law.
God is a moral being and so that cannot be abolished.

Keeping the Sabbath was a ceremonial Law.
THAT HAS been abolished...

What happens if one of God's children breaks His moral laws?