Not By Works

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Yup, well what God requires from you is to accept His payment in full, accomplished by Jesus.



Zi said:
Task masters don't care.. A parent does.. I'm no task master when I require something of my son that is for his benefit.. Simple truth that's missing in your views here
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For me it's not about works but nature. If after you declare Jesus as Lord and Saviour yet doing to or keep the sins we are told not to, then yes those will have no access because they chose their nature. Babes and those slipping are not who I mean, I'm talking about the ones that know better and shrug it off because they lack the fear of Him, or reverence of His Holiness...
Grace777x70 said:
I just asked you a straight forward question...I didn't say you would do that to your son....:)

The reality is - we are saying the exact same thing of our loving Father. Some works-based salvationists do believe that God sends His beloved children that Jesus died for into hell.

Post 16065 shows this to be true.

Perhaps you don't believe it - but that is the final outcome if the Holy Spirit leaves us - like some false doctrines try to tell believers in Christ - even though Jesus said "The Holy spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16
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Stephen63 said:
Obloviation, plain & simple. You haven't proven anything.

YOU'RE WRONG.
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You can bold it, put it in neon lights and have a Bi-Plane fly over with a glowing sign and it will not change the fact that you...

a. Are in error
b. Your gospel is false
c. You deceptively posted words not applicable to try and undermine a valid point
 
thank you to all who showed I did not pull my "paid in full" comment out of thin air, but had concrete reliable sources that the used the word in that way in Jesus day, I appreciate it.
 
Stephen63 said:
This is how they do it. They can't be honest, they have to be underhanded, crafty, & wicked.

They act according to what's in their heart.
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Post 16048.....speaks volumes to the honest, underhanded, crafty and wicked part....the difference between you and I is, I will not run to the mods and report you.....!
 
dcontroversal said:
You can bold it, put it in neon lights and have a Bi-Plane fly over with a glowing sign and it will not change the fact that you...

a. Are in error
b. Your gospel is false
c. You deceptively posted words not applicable to try and undermine a valid point
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As usual, you say, & cannot prove.

what's ironic is you bloviate, the very thing you rant about.:D
 
dcontroversal said:
Post 16048.....speaks volumes to the honest, underhanded, crafty and wicked part....the difference between you and I is, I will not run to the mods and report you.....!
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As usual, his very words could be read back at him, and they would fit him well,

thats the the type of nonsense which goes. On, do as I say, not as I do mentality,


 
eternally-gratefull said:
Thats is why I have him on ignore, he is a big advocate of using lexicons and commentaries, but when other people use them it is must be wrong

multon and Milligan is a very reputable book, hey took manuscripts found in every day Greek secular places, and translated them, that's how they came up with their meaning, how did they us words in it in every day use outside the Bible?

but it it does not fit his belief, so must be in error.
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Here is my view on Commentaries:

Commentaries are sometimes used as the "standard of truth".

Commentaries.

I personally love to read from commentaries and have about 1/2 dozen or so that I regularly view on some subject.

There is an inherent problem with going by commentaries to determine truth - they can be giving out what their denomination has taught them in the past and so we "could be" in another church tradition type of situation be perpetuated.

Commentaries are basically what the author himself thinks about a passage or certain doctrine which is absolutely fine.

I find that I get a part from one and a part from a different commentary and the Spirit of God uses them all in some aspect to reveal what He is speaking to me about.

The other one is Greek/Hebrew dictionaries. I find that they too can "sometimes add" their comments to what the actual meaning of the Greek words are which may or may not be entirely true.

They "add" their "application" of the meaning of the words - which is fine. But I believe we need to be aware of such things too.

I absolutely love to read the meanings of words in the Greek/Hebrew dictionaries and glean many things that have helped me to grow in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Personally I believe all Christians should be reading the original words as technology has been made available the tools needed to do this - and you don't need to go to seminary to do this elementary study. If you don't use these tools you are "in serious apostasy" ( just kidding - using the play on the term being in apostasy...:) )

In my opinion - Without the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealing the things of God to us - we can easily create our own religion that displaces the work of Christ in our lives and thus nullify the grace of God that is available for us for life and living.

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of the Lord Jesus Christ in the scriptures to us as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Christ in her womb.
 
People seem to read different than what's said.. large print is also used for the elderly or hard of seeing
UnderGrace said:
Too funny....:D:D

I used to teach kindergarten....large print, loud voices... and definitely not good listeners!! Good analogy!!
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eternally-gratefull said:
Thats is why I have him on ignore, he is a big advocate of using lexicons and commentaries, but when other people use them it is must be wrong

multon and Milligan is a very reputable book, hey took manuscripts found in every day Greek secular places, and translated them, that's how they came up with their meaning, how did they us words in it in every day use outside the Bible?

but it it does not fit his belief, so must be in error.
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I hear ya....not to mention the culture and the usage of the word by the Greeks and Romans......and then to turn around and post like 20 different words that have no bearing on the 2 (two) times the word was used and try and devalue the truth that was posted......
 
Been there done that...fear will not stop sin

It is the grace of Jesus that teaches us away from sin.

Tit 2:12 “Grace teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age”.


Zi said:
For me it's not about works but nature. If after you declare Jesus as Lord and Saviour yet doing to or keep the sins we are told not to, then yes those will have no access because they chose their nature. Babes and those slipping are not who I mean, I'm talking about the ones that know better and shrug it off because they lack the fear of Him, or reverence of His Holiness...
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eternally-gratefull said:
thank you to all who showed I did not pull my "paid in full" comment out of thin air, but had concrete reliable sources that the used the word in that way in Jesus day, I appreciate it.
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Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” Andbowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

in the Greek, Tetelestai, was a legal term, those who had paid their debt in full, carried a card with them affixed to the card was the crime, and stamped on it was the word tetelestai, it means the debt to society was "paid in full" and they could never be tried for the same crime again,
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Where did you get that info from? What web site?
 
Zi said:
For me it's not about works but nature. If after you declare Jesus as Lord and Saviour yet doing to or keep the sins we are told not to, then yes those will have no access because they chose their nature. Babes and those slipping are not who I mean, I'm talking about the ones that know better and shrug it off because they lack the fear of Him, or reverence of His Holiness...
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I understand the works-based doctrine well - I was well-trained in it. Even went to a Bible school and graduated and took Greek there too.

So, does this mean you do believe our loving Father throws his beloved children into hell and the lake of fire?

"Not about works - but nature" - that is what you believe. Correct?

So, you say that somehow - our new creation in Christ - which is our true nature created in righteousness and holiness - where Christ lives by the Holy Spirit within us - of Whom Jesus said would be in us forever - - it gets contaminated by sin?

Sins of the flesh kicks Jesus and the Holy Spirit out of our inner man that is in Christ?
 
Wow!!! Reverence is the only thing that stops sin.. You QUOTE grace teaches not stops, that's a choice
UnderGrace said:
Been there done that...fear will not stop sin

It is the grace of Jesus that teaches us away from sin.

Tit 2:12 “Grace teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age”.
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