Not By Works

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These soothsayers are like blind men, looking for a black cat, in a dark alley at midnight...yet claiming to be of the light:confused:

Jesus asked of such as these "if that light in you be darkness, just how great is that darkness" meaning just how badly deceived are you...
 
willybob said:
These soothsayers are like blind men, looking for a black cat, in a dark alley at midnight...yet claiming to be of the light:confused:

Jesus asked of such as these "if that light in you be darkness, just how great is that darkness" meaning just how badly deceived are you...
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...and even entertaining!
 
willybob said:
These soothsayers are like blind men, looking for a black cat, in a dark alley at midnight...yet claiming to be of the light:confused:

Jesus asked of such as these "if that light in you be darkness, just how great is that darkness" meaning just how badly deceived are you...
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actually he was talking about self righteous religious hypocrites being deceived and John 9 bears this out....
 
graceNpeace said:
...and even entertaining!
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do you really desire to continue in your foolishness in front of all who are reading here? You might want to reconsider, because you offer nothing but vain opinions, lacking all understanding of the text, therefore just avoiding it...
 
Meggido said:
actually he was talking about self righteous religious hypocrites being deceived and John 9 bears this out....
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No sir,,,,He was speaking to religious people, perfecting religious deeds, (self righteousness via religious works) who believed they could live in their sin and still be of God, perceiving they were not in the bondage of sin...It's the same thing today, nothing new under the sun..
 
willybob said:
do you really desire to continue in your foolishness in front of all who are reading here? You might want to reconsider, because you offer nothing but vain opinions, lacking all understanding of the text, therefore just avoiding it...
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The other thing about false prophets is they often times develop what I call the Elijah Delusion....they think they are the only one that see things as God does and the only ones battling the legions they perceive are coming against them....yet 7,000 more are in the fight....

You fit the Elijah delusion perfectly...
 
willybob said:
No sir,,,,He was speaking to religious people, perfecting religious deeds, (self righteousness via religious works) who believed they could live in their sin and still be of God, perceiving they were not in the bondage of sin...It's the same thing today, nothing new under the sun..
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I said as much...John 9 proves it out, so what is your beef? Other than you wish to be resident prophet over all....give it a rest...we do not need a chat board prophet...
 
willybob said:
do you really desire to continue in your foolishness in front of all who are reading here? You might want to reconsider, because you offer nothing but vain opinions, lacking all understanding of the text, therefore just avoiding it...
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Ah, now that is where you are so wrong!
Please go back in this thread to about twenty-four hours ago and look for my post then!

The lack of understanding is all yours!
Even a cursory glance at your choice of Scriptures, all hopelessly out of context, proves that.

I called what you are doing an abuse of Scripture because that is exactly what it is.

I also doubt that trying to engage with you in Scripture will lead to change in your ways.
You seek only to impose your views on Scripture - not let it speak its meaning to you - hence pulling individual verses out of context and attempting to annotate your meaning into them!

We all know your views, but you stand in one corner and the Bible in another!
 
One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to post a "string" of scriptures that are all taken out of context from both the OT and the NT to "prove" a teaching.

I like to use Exodus 32:33 as an example. Let's say I have this "theory" that we must be sinless all of our lives to get to heaven.

I start with the below scripture from Moses and from the start it's not looking good for us...:(...

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I then can go on to post scriptures from Moses to David to Jesus all about sin and what it does. Then I end up with the book of Revelation 21:8 where it says that all immoral people will be thrown in the lake of fire.

All of these scriptures are true but none of them take into consideration the finished work of Christ and how that Jesus' blood has redeemed sinners.

Jesus' truths trump all those scriptures that were "strung" together to prove my above theory in the first place.

The finished work of Christ is what all other scriptures need to be interpreted through before IMO they can be legitimately used to support a teaching.


The funny thing about Greek is that most of the people in NT days spoke Greek and understood the language unlike us today, yet they still needed the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of the Lord to them.

I find it fascinating to read a scripture I have known all my Christian life and then one day - the Holy Spirit illuminates that scripture and I am amazed at how I didn't see that before.

I maintain that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

We can read the scriptures through the lens of our natural minds whether we know all the Greek words and structure or not and come away with the wrong reality of spiritual truths.
 
the false prophets are sent because people love not the truth but delight in lies...many are more subtle than others preying upon the gullible, however, the likes of Joseph Prince was sent to prey upon the extremely gullible. Such as these locust come by the plethora out of the bottomless pit, and they eat up every green thing, said John...
 
willybob said:
No, he takes your money and merchandises you, Please wake up and smell the coffee...or are you that in love with lies? Jesus, Jude, and Peter said, while men slept.
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to clarify, I was speaking of John McCarther, my apologies for any confusion...
 
mailmandan said:
It's about the direction of our walk and not the perfection of our walk. Only Christ was absolutely perfect 100% of the time. Christ walked in love, obedience and self sacrifice and believers are capable of this pattern of life, yet we are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time as Christ was when He lived out His life on earth.

Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
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(John 8:12): "When Jesus spoke again to the people, He said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Jesus said: "He who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The light of life means two things. The Greek can mean either the light which issues from the source of life or the light which gives life. In this passage it means both. Jesus is the very light of God come among men; and he is the light which gives men life. Just as the flower can never blossom when it never sees the sunlight, so our lives can never flower with the grace and beauty they ought to have until they are irradiated with the light of the presence of Jesus.

In this passage Jesus talks of following himself. We often speak of following Jesus; we often urge men to do so. What do we mean?

The Greek for to follow is "akolouthein"; and its meanings combine to shed a flood of light on what it means to follow Jesus. Akolouthein (in the Greek) has five different but closely connected meanings:

1). It is often used of a soldier following his captain. On the long route marches, into battle, in campaigns in strange lands, the soldier follows wherever the captain may lead. The Christian is the soldier whose commander is Christ.

2). It is often used of a slave accompanying his master. Wherever the master goes the slave is in attendance upon him, always ready to spring to his service and to carry out the tasks he gives him to do. He is literally at his master's beck and call. The Christian is the slave whose joy it is always to serve Christ.

3). It is often used of accepting a wise counsellor's opinion. When a man is in doubt he goes to the expert, and if he is wise he accepts the judgment he receives. The Christian is the man who guides his life and conduct by the counsel of Christ.

4). It is often used of giving obedience to the laws of a city or a state. If a man is to be a useful member of any society or citizen of any community, he must agree to abide by its laws. The Christian, being a citizen of the kingdom of heaven, accepts the law of the kingdom and of Christ as the law which governs his life.

5). It is often used of following a teacher's line of argument, or of following the gist of someone's speech. The Christian is the man who has understood the meaning of the teaching of Christ. He has not listened in dull incomprehension or with slack inattention. He takes the message into his mind and understands, receives the words into his memory and remembers, and hides them in his heart and obeys with pliability.

To be a follower of Christ is to give oneself body, soul and spirit into the obedience of the Master; and to enter upon that following is to walk in the light. When we walk alone we are bound to stumble and grope, for so many of life's problems are beyond our solution. When we walk alone we are bound to take the wrong way, because we have no secure map of life. We need the heavenly wisdom to walk the earthly way. The man who has a sure guide and an accurate map is the man who is bound to come in safety to his journey's end. Jesus Christ is that guide; he alone possesses the map to life. To follow him is to walk in safety through life and afterwards to enter into glory.

Almost sin free? Is that the best you think Christ can muster for yourself? Think again!, He has given us the power to conquer our sins and their strongholds! One by one; day-by-day; all the way -starting today, in the patient process of righteousness..
 
Concerning the forgiveness of sins which is the message of the gospel.

These are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter and Paul "in the New Covenant".

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words ( Matt. 6:15 ) out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Seems like it was your argument

Now can you answer, If abraham died before he had the chance to offer Issac would he have spent eternity with God or in Hell, since he did not have the chance to offer up Issac,
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Assuming Abraham did not lose faith in the promises of God between the time he was justified by faith and the time God would test him he would remain justified in the sight of God. Abraham would not be accountable for a test that God did not even give him the opportunity to take.

The relevant question is, "would Abraham be saved if he did not offer Isaac up when God told him to do that?" According to James, the answer is 'no'. Because James says, using Abraham as the example, that faith that doesn't act/work can not save. Now for the part where everybody becomes stone deaf: Not because Abraham's actions somehow MADE him righteous in God's sight, but rather because his actions SHOW him to have the faith that makes a person righteous in God's sight. If you can't show the righteousness of God in your actions you ain't got the righteousness of God you think you have. And so it is in that way that works are necessary to be saved.

Now everybody can post as if I just got done saying works earn a person their righteousness. Have at it, folks, lol.
 
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dcontroversal said:
Ariel....go to this thread and explain post number 2 to the originator of the thread HAHA ;)

Any Iniquity That Denies Him; You Will Be Denied
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I couldn't even get past the first paragraph of the OP.

It's 10:49 pm and I just setup my hammock at a local state park after going to family night at boy scout camp.

Just my daughter, the dog and myself here.
.I just thought I would check out the conversation.

Praising God that Meggido and EG made peace for now. I am sure we will all get into heated debates again lol.

We are passionate about what we believe and I think that is a good thing.

Anyway I am gonna skin the thread.

Maybe if God gives me time I will try and figure out Snow is saying in that other one.

Haven't really felt moved to talk to him. So don't know what he believes.
 
Trying to fit what Peter and Paul said in Acts 10 and 13 - in their word-for-word accounts of preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ can "conflict" with some of our religious beliefs.

The truth is that they did not say. "you must forgive others before you can receive Christ's forgiveness - obtained by God's riches in grace which He purchased with His own blood for an eternal redemption and the complete forgiveness of sins"

There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.

It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.

We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.

Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.

Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Paul "didn't say" - in order for you to be forgiven dear believer in Christ - you must forgive - NO - he said forgive one another "just as " God in Christ has forgiven you.

It's your nature now in the new creation that is joined as one spirit with Christ forever to forgive just like your Father does.

The operative words are "God in Christ has forgiven you."

The New Covenant is radically different then the Old Covenant - it is built upon better promises and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things.
 
Meggido said:
maybe it should be nuking the baker or something...cake is the end product right? :cool:

and why does it have to be cake? I hate cake, how about pie...yes pie is awesome, so is cobbler....

or manna....
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For you.,,I will say you are "burning the pie"

Truthfully though I will probably forget.

I tend to start singing songs in my head when folks start fighting. I skip alot of post that drown out my music and only respond to the ones that the melody comes through and reminds me of angelic songs praising God.

.If that makes any sense to anyone but me, lol.

I know I am walking with the Holy spirit when I hear music in my soul but when I get distracted by life and the troubles of this world...the loud cymbals and clanging...makes me cover my ears and pray until the peace and melody returns.

I think it's a coping mechanism.

Currently my daughter has this song stuck in my head because she has been singing it constantly...even when we walked the parking lot of Wal-Mart she is singing at the top of her lungs...

"I have an old church choir singing in my soul. I have a sweet salvation and it's beautiful!!!"

It makes me smile that she has that kind of faith and joy in God.

I hope she keeps dancing to the beat of a different drummer.

It's okay if the world thinks we are strange. God tells us we are His beloved children and that is what counts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ECP8uhj-9D8
 
Meggido said:
The other thing about false prophets is they often times develop what I call the Elijah Delusion....they think they are the only one that see things as God does and the only ones battling the legions they perceive are coming against them....yet 7,000 more are in the fight....

You fit the Elijah delusion perfectly...
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Careful you are gonna burn Willybob pie.,,,then again maybe then he won't steal it?

I use the ignore feature...as in:

I am
Gonna
Need
Obvious
Reminders to pray before
Engaging you.

.as someone pointed out,i am too nosy to actually ingnore someone.
 
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