Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you answer my question directly?
Would Abraham's faith, had it not offered up Isaac, been able to save him?
Yes, or no?

its a nonsensical question

If abraham died before he had the chance to offer up his son, Would he have went to heaven or hell?

 

[dcontroversal]

its a nonsensical question

If abraham died before he had the chance to offer up his son, Would he have went to heaven or hell?

Not to mention the fact that the faith Abraham had that justified was his belief in what God had said when God called him out of UR.....long before he was "whacked" or offered Isaac......it was faith that justified and saved Abraham....not his works and I do not understand why people cannot see that to add works of righteousness to FAITH in order to KEEP, FINISH and or embellish salvation is false...Paul was clear and he calls all who espouse this fools and bewitched......

 

[Ariel82]

its a nonsensical question

If abraham died before he had the chance to offer up his son, Would he have went to heaven or hell?

Actually it reminds me of a question asked this week at VBS.,,

.Since Peter denied Jesus three times, does that condemn him to hell?

Would he have gone to hell if he didn't do any good works after his denial of Jesus?

Was his good works what saved him?

Or was it faith in Jesus?

 

[Ariel82]

Okay, maybe we're getting somewhere.

Now, there's no need to explain how a person is saved the moment they believe, nor reason to bring OSAS into this. We just need to know your answer to this question:

Would Abraham's faith, had it not offered up Isaac, been able to save him?
James says 'no', because he says faith without works can not save. What do you say?

That is what you believe James would say. However the Bible clearly says that Abraham was saved before He offered up Issac.

Just as Jesus saved Peter with His prayers.

Luke 22

31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you,d that he might sift you like wheat, 32but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” 33Petere said to him, “Lord, I am ready to go with you both to prison and to death.” 34Jesusf said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster will not crow this day, until you deny three times that you know me.”

*****


Even so the Holy spirit is our intercessor that is able to keep our faith in God strong even when we fall or turn away from the light, that faith is what turns us back to God.

 

[Burninglight]

Not to mention the fact that the faith Abraham had that justified was his belief in what God had said when God called him out of UR.....long before he was "whacked" or offered Isaac......it was faith that justified and saved Abraham....not his works and I do not understand why people cannot see that to add works of righteousness to FAITH in order to KEEP, FINISH and or embellish salvation is false...Paul was clear and he calls all who espouse this fools and bewitched......

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

I hear ya and agree....even nature and creation speaks to this truth........

 

[Grace777x70]

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

I agree with you on saved by grace through faith in Christ's work when we hear the message of Him.

I believe that there are Christians because of bad teaching can be deceived into thinking they must do good works to be saved or to remain saved - but they are still Christians or they could be as only God knows the heart of man.

Acts 15:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

 

[Ariel82]

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

This kind of crosses a line for me.

If they have the Holy spirit and true saving faith in Jesus then they are saved, even if I don't agree with their doctrine.

.God is able teach and save all His Kids.

 

[BillG]

Well, let's see..... we have a couple of hard core, verbally beat-you-in-the ground-types.....

We have some "let's be logical & common sense" types.....

We have a couple of "let's all love one another" types.....

We have both male & female "gentle as a kitten" types.....

We hav a few "I'm acting like I'm on the other side" losers who make them look good.....

Ooh, yeah..... we even have a couple of "referee" types, acting as if they're neutral when they're not.

All of these round out a complete group of various personality types & attitudes to draw all kinds of folk to the same side of easy believeism.

If you take a look at it, it looks like a scripted act with all the right players.

Then again, it could be a handful of sockpuppets following a script.

It's too complete, too perfect, too good to be true.

Not to mention it's a very rare occasion one of them gets banned.

All I ask the readers to do is pray, & think for themselves.

I truly believe we're being played for a fool.

Afternoon Stephen.

Can I ask who the we're are?

Given the majority of responses and content I would say most do pray and think for themselves and studied as well.

 

[Ariel82]

Sock puppets implies that folks waste the time and energy to make multiple accounts to put on a play to "fool" Stephen..,seems a little much.

 

[BillG]

This kind of crosses a line for me.

If they have the Holy spirit and true saving faith in Jesus then they are saved, even if I don't agree with their doctrine.

.God is able teach and save all His Kids.

Works will be tested, what we build on will either be precious or crap.
The crap will be burned up and shown to be useless BUT we will escape through the fire, be saved.

 

[stonesoffire]

I only like to offend Dcon.
That's only because I love him to Death.

But I digress. Let's look at the conversation we're talking about..
Only because I think it's important and it's about having _God in a box. A really tiny box...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On page 732, you and EG were having a conversation about Peter.

In Post no. 14633, EG made this statement: "Peter has said that he rejects imputed righteousness".

In post no. 14634, YOU replied, exact words now... "If so, then he has no part in the Kingdom. Still in the Kindgdom of darkness. No good. "


To which I made the statement that you have God in a very little box.
IF PETER REJECTS IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS , it DOES NOT mean that he is in the Kingdom of darkness.

It only means that he rejects a doctrine. HE IS NOT REJECTING GOD.

So, I stand by my statement that you have God in a little box

BECAUSE IT'S NOT DOCTRINE THAT SAVES US.
JESUS SAVES US.


Capisci?

What say you? What saves? Doctrine or Jesus?

(I don't offend easily either)

No, it's not a doctrine Fran. Its a truth. When we are born from above, we are granted His right standing with Father so we can boldly come before Him in prayer. It's why Jesus said there was a day coming when we would pray to the Father.

That day has come. But, to try to approach the unapproachable light in human flesh? Burnt to a crisp.

 

[Burninglight]

Works will be tested, what we build on will either be precious or crap.
The crap will be burned up and shown to be useless BUT we will escape through the fire, be saved.

Yes, but who wants to suffer the loss of burned works?

 

[Zmouth]

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

You miss the point, a person doesn't have faith nor can his works obtain faith, so if you don't know what the gift of God is then you are the one claiming to be saved by your works.

So were you saved before you had faith or after you had faith?

As far as hearing his voice, I take it you are referring to that inner voice that speaks to you? You don't mean an audible voice like the one referenced in Luke 9:35, Matthew 17:5 or Mark 9:7 do you?

Note: I am not questioning your salvation. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but who wants to suffer the loss of burned works?

I am sure after it happens, You will think of the other option, and be quite glad your in heaven..

But I agree, as of now, none of us want our works burnt..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You miss the point, a person doesn't have faith nor can his works obtain faith, so if you don't know what the gift of God is then you are the one claiming to be saved by your works.

So were you saved before you had faith or after you had faith?

For me, I was saved The moment I had faith, and God declared me righteous as he did abraham

 

[Burninglight]

I hear ya and agree....even nature and creation speaks to this truth........

This is the first time for me on a Christian forum and I am shocked the things I hear being said and believed. I've been on Muslims forums and hear similar stuff from Muslims, but I understand them thinking that way, but what's a Christian's excuse? That is why Christians convert to Islam and the Muslims boast.

 

[Meggido]

However not everyone who uses the words "eternal security" is teaching a false licentious doctrine like those false wolves on TV.

Some do Ariel....Rob Bell is one who now does not even believe in Hell, that all go to heaven...universalist doctrine is even more licentious than losing or keeping your own salvation

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes Stone.

But you can't get away from works.

Please see the highlighted.

WORKS are written of in every part of the N.T.
Know why?

They're NECESSARY for obedience to God.

No...the KJV of James I believe is actually talking about fruit. Not the works of the Spirit. Its the fruit of being in Jesus that we will be merciful to others. When we see someone in need and we have that need in surplus...we give, or we even give out of our own need.

This is not to be confused with the works of Holy Spirit.

James is saying God has been merciful to us...be merciful to others. Show love. It's not a must...but a will do. Because of who we are in Him.

Actually the works of Holy Spirit are of the same manner....we give out of the giftings because we love others and want to see them saved, delivered, and growing in Kingdom living.

Just as He has done to us...we do to others.

We can develop attitudes and become unforgiving. I see unforgiveness as the only stumbling block in our life that will stop up the flow of Holy Spirit, and will cause our flesh then to rule. It's a sad place to be and then will cause destruction in our lives, and the lives of others.

James is centering on what a man will do when he loves others.

 

[Burninglight]

This kind of crosses a line for me. .

What line does it cross for you?

If they have the Holy spirit and true saving faith in Jesus then they are saved, even if I don't agree with their doctrine.

.God is able teach and save all His Kids.

But if you think the Scripture crosses the line for you, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit or true faith in the true Jesus you are putting your faith in? It matters where our faith is placed. Wouldn't you agree? there is lots of deception out there. Jesus said beware of false prophets who bring false teachings . If we don't beware, we are sure to be deceived!