Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
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Originally Posted by dcontroversal You know....a work of righteousness is any work that is right......the bible is clear....NOT by works of RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his MERCY has he saved us (past tense) this one verse alone proves that works that are right do not save.....

A direct quote from Titus......
Click to expand...

Titus is a good clue.

But WHERE in Titus????
 
OKEY EVERYONE.
I REALLY AND TRULY LOVE YOU ALL.
I KNOW WE'LL ALL SEE EACH OTHER IN HEAVEN.
WELL, MAYBE I WON'T BE THERE, ACCORDING TO SOME HERE.
BUT GOD ASSSURES ME I WILL BE.

SO THIS IS FOR EVERYONE.
ESPECIALLY THAT CUTIE OF DCON.
What a cutie!!!!!!!!!




93105f8e5b940e2b2ed489ffae17da2d.jpg
 
I just want to make it clear....obviously NO one can judge another's salvation....but we can JUDGE doctrine.....and make a reasonable estimation based upon what one believes....
 
dcontroversal said:
AMEN........I called her on it to.......and she regularly calls us out on posting scripture yet coddles ole Petey like a hot dog in a bun without applying the same stick to his posts.....there is a word for that.......
Click to expand...

One has to be honest. If you do not like a position, but saying it is wrong is just
a statement of your position in a negative sense, but adds nothing more than this.

It reminds me of a historical dispute between muslims who wanted to pursue
truth and those who just took the Koran as the final authority. The beheaded the
key proponent of truth, and asked if anyone else disagreed. Once you behave like
this truth has left the room.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
John 3:19
 
dcontroversal said:
I just want to make it clear....obviously NO one can judge another's salvation....but we can JUDGE doctrine.....and make a reasonable estimation based upon what one believes....
Click to expand...

I am glad you confirm you feel you cannot judge salvation, so I hope you manage to stop
doing exactly that.
 
blue_ladybug said:
I've seen current pictures of him. You really do sound obsessed.. Maybe he should sic the Mrs. Dcon on you.. lol
Click to expand...

You think he would? I think I could handle her.
And how did you see current pictures of him?
I just checked his profile page and there's nothing there.
What a let-down.
:(



BYE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
 
PeterJens said:
I am glad you confirm you feel you cannot judge salvation, so I hope you manage to stop
doing exactly that.
Click to expand...


Nice try, but no cigar pal.....I have never judged salvation only the dogma preached by those who reject truth.......what is your excuse.....at least I have not called you a psychopath as you have concerning a few on this site....
 
OKEY EVERYONE.
I REALLY AND TRULY LOVE YOU ALL.
I KNOW WE'LL ALL SEE EACH OTHER IN HEAVEN.
WELL, MAYBE I WON'T BE THERE, ACCORDING TO SOME HERE.
BUT GOD ASSSURES ME I WILL BE.
Click to expand...

It would seem we have a contradiction here, so God does assure you that you will be in heaven?

Umm.... is there a scripture for that?... You know it is really important to cite chapter and verse otherwise it is just hearsay and opinion. :D

If I was waking up in beautiful Tuscany every morning I am sure I would be more prone to contradictory statements too!

 
FranC said:
Hello PennEd

Doing OK. Could be better. Could be worse. My best wishes to you and yours also.

I'm rather shocked at how scripture is not understood.

Let's start at Mathew 5:20, as you wish.

Jesus was saying how He did not come to abolish the Law.
He says that he came to fulfill the Law. Fulfill means to make complete. I'm sure you now this.
Mathew 5:17

So, how is the Law made complete?
By moving it from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26

Or, as someone here has stated, from the external to the internal.


Not the smalles stroke or letter will pass from the Law. IOW, we are not to trivialize the Law - it's as important as it has ALWAYS been. God did NOT give the commadments and then decided to take them away.

God is the same Yesterday, today and Tomorrow.
Hebrews 13:8

Whoever ANNULS one of the LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS, and also teaches Others to do the same, will e called the least in the Kingdom
Mathew 5:19a


But who hold these commandments and teachings in high regard, will find Honor in the Kingdom.
Mathew 5:19b


UNLESS YOU DO EVEN BETTER THAN THE PHARISSES IN THE MATTER OF LIVING RIGHTEOUSLY, YOU WILL KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ENTERNG THE KINGDOM.
Mathew 5:20


verse 20 is saying that we MUST DO BETTER than the Pharisees.
We MUST move the commandments from our mind to our hearts.

Then Jesus goes on to show us HOW we are to do this.

Now lust goes beyong physical action, but becomes a HEART action or matter.
Mathew 5:27-28


Is this difficult to understand?

Please take the time to read Mathew again and understand it in context, as you yourself have said.
Jesus did NOT make following the commandments easier, He made it MORE DIFFICULT.

Someone else on this thread had the same idea as you.
It's incorrect if the bible is read at face value and not made to say what WE might want it to say.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the wishes.

Without revelation from the Holy Spirit, mine, or anybody else attempting to explain Scripture, is without fruit. I pray that revelation comes to you.

I am curious as to what translation you are using. The meaning of which, especially verse 20, is starkly different than every other translation I could find. Here are many translations, none of which say what you are saying:

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

"But I warn you--unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness shall abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom from heaven!"

For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

For I say to you, that unless your goodness will exceed that of the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I can guarantee that unless you live a life that has God's approval and do it more faithfully than the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, that unless your righteousness surpass [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I assure you that unless your righteousness greatly surpasses that of the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will certainly not find entrance into the Kingdom of the Heavens.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

'For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Amen bro.......the only way is to be found in Christ by faith........

PennEd said:
Thank you for the wishes.

Without revelation from the Holy Spirit, mine, or anybody else attempting to explain Scripture, is without fruit. I pray that revelation comes to you.

I am curious as to what translation you are using. The meaning of which, especially verse 20, is starkly different than every other translation I could find. Here are many translations, none of which say what you are saying:

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

"But I warn you--unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness shall abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom from heaven!"

For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

For I say to you, that unless your goodness will exceed that of the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I can guarantee that unless you live a life that has God's approval and do it more faithfully than the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, that unless your righteousness surpass [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

For I assure you that unless your righteousness greatly surpasses that of the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will certainly not find entrance into the Kingdom of the Heavens.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

'For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
 
The way I see it is if folks don't have eternal assurance....then perhaps there is a good reason....perhaps God hasn't given them that Holy spirit seal because they dont have a saving faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross, his ressurection and ascension?

Maybe some folks just have a heathen's faith in following the Law to earn their salvation or a demon's mental assent of who Jesus is and what He did?
 
Ariel82 said:
The way I see it is if folks don't have eternal assurance....then perhaps there is a good reason....perhaps God hasn't given them that Holy spirit seal because they dont have a saving faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross, his ressurection and ascension?

Maybe some folks just have a heathen's faith in following the Law to earn their salvation or a demon's mental assent of who Jesus is and what He did?
Click to expand...

I agree. As the scriptures say, "the truth shall set you free". The lost just don't have any assurance; they haven't been set free yet.

But God knew there would be some believers that would doubt their eternal security at some point, after listening to teachers, which is why there are numerous scriptures reassuring us and confirming that we have eternal life and are no longer condemned.
 
FranC said:
AGAIN means the son HAD LIFE, LOST IT, AND NOW HAS IT AGAIN.
Click to expand...

Hebrews 6 disagrees with this idea.


(Hebrews 5:12-14)- spiritually immature/baby christians... "you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God"


Hebrews 6:1-6: "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

For (because) it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if (hypothetical) they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame"

Context.

In other words, impossible for a believer to be saved, unsaved, saved again, then unsaved. Christ's ONE sacrifice was sufficient to save them one time, eternally. If salvation can be lost then Christ would need to be crucified a second, third, forth time? This scripture is one of many that confirms this is not possible. That ONE sacrifice was sufficient. A person cannot be renewed multiple times... that just isn't biblical at all.

The Holy Spirit doesn't keep jumping in and out of a person's body. No one can break that Holy Spirit seal :)
 
Dear all,

Well I haven't been back in to this thread for a while but what I can see so far from the many comments I have been reading, I think this thread has it's origins from Babylon. Well, not literally but there seems to be a lot of confusion in here. Just saying, still love you all .

God bless you :o
 
Ariel82 said:
The way I see it is if folks don't have eternal assurance....then perhaps there is a good reason....perhaps God hasn't given them that Holy spirit seal because they dont have a saving faith in Jesus finished work upon the cross, his ressurection and ascension?

Maybe some folks just have a heathen's faith in following the Law to earn their salvation or a demon's mental assent of who Jesus is and what He did?
Click to expand...

I've told you before Ariel,
God must have put YOU in charge.
You know all about everyone's soul

Amazing.
 
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