Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

If one loves the word he/she will come to the light, in that the commandments of God are not grievous to the soul, but if he/she loves darkness the commandments of God become a burden to their soul, because through pride and intellectual conceit he/she fights against obedience to the truth. Therefore, like Pharisees, they compare themselves, among themselves, for themselves (perceiving strength in numbers) . Knowing this first; if they don’t want to deal with the whole council of God they are not in the gospel anyway, but have a form of godliness denying the power (grace) therein..Through much suffering (dying to the lusts of the flesh in repentance) does one cease from sin.. 1 Peter 4-1

Try again.....and pay attention to context....the removal of the candlestick is indicative of them losing their authority and light as a N.T. Church....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal Like I said, you reject context and make everything about salvation when it is not.....it speaks to their authority and I love the truth it sets forth....and now your just a deceptive, quote me where I argued in favor of sin!

 

[dcontroversal]

My point is just that faith is not a work.

Otherwise, it's impossible for faith to save us in the biblical context, like you described. I agree with the idea that faith in Christ saves you without works.

But, if faith was a work... then you'd be saved by a work.

That's why I'm saying faith is not a work.

AMEN and I agree.....

 

[dcontroversal]

The biblical definition of faith is steadfast faithfulness to God's commands from heart purity. if that is not works, then what is it? Paul said six times in the text that religious works cannot save you "ie" the works of the law". He wasn't speaking of works of faith in that context. (big difference) Abraham did the works of faith and it was accounted to him as righteous..Salvation is a two fold dynamic (man working to gather with God to achieve a relationship of love that cannot be achieved by any other means. 1) man humbles himself, repents, and ends his rebellious ways, coupled with 2) Gods' mercy and forgiveness, In other words, its like the apostle Paul said "we are saved by grace (Gods part), through faith (man's part) Eph. 3-8...Notwithstanding, only God can forgive past sins through His mercy, and dispense the empowerment of the Spirit (grace) to live godly, righteously, and of a sober mind in this present world...

Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness....the word WORKS comes from your embellishment and is exactly what Satan did in the garden....you workers for know no bounds of deception and or fraud when dealing with the scriptures to push your false dogma

What deception on your part!

 

[dcontroversal]

I am speaking to you in reference to post #12,500 in which you said " you cannot the Holy Spirt if you do not follow Jesus's instructions ". where does the Bible say this??

It doesn't and exactly why it states that grieve the spirit when we sin or walk contrary....the workers for embellish and add words and their own dogma in on a regular basis just like the snake in the garden......very deceptive!

 

[dcontroversal]

Good morning LoveGodForever. So who obeys Him? Believers or unbelievers? What act(s) of obedience do you believe causes us to receive the Holy Spirit?

Just goes to show how the workers for yank a verse out of context to push their lies and deceit....the context of HIM is JESUS and the word can be translated FOLLOW....

The Holy Spirit is given unto ALL that follow HIM (JESUS)....

I have never seen as much deception in my life as I have on this site from the workers for.....

 

[FranC]

So if a Mormon interprets Acts 5:32 as only those who obey the Mormon "version" of the gospel are those who obey Christ and have received the Holy Spirit, should I accept that as no need for interpretation? Anyone can write a blank check with the word "obey" and fill in whatever acts of obedience they wish and call it obeying Christ, when in fact they may not truly be obeying God. There are people mixed up in false religions and cults who believe they obey Christ, yet pervert the gospel.

Yes.

You said, "Incredible. I thought you believed in the Word of God." That's an assertion, not a question.

Just as it reads and only genuine believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel and obey Him after they believe the gospel.

I didn't twist it, but people in false religions and cults twist it.

You are making this complicated, not me.

YOU are making it complicated.

Why bring up Mormons?

What does Obey mean? Do we need to know other cult religions to understand this?

Obey means to obey. Do we need Mr. Webster?

Just read Mathew chapters 5 to 7. The Beatìtudes. Jesus gave very many teachings.

Are we to obey them or NOT?

SIMPLE.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Gb9,

Nice to meet you, here you go...

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

God bless you

I suggest the context of the word HIM and study the word OBEY...and remember who translated the word and what they believe......just saying......

HIM is JESUS

OBEY can be translated FOLLOW

The HOLY SPIRIT is given unto ALL that FOLLOW HIM (JESUS)

 

[FranC]

Just goes to show how the workers for yank a verse out of context to push their lies and deceit....the context of HIM is JESUS and the word can be translated FOLLOW....

The Holy Spirit is given unto ALL that follow HIM (JESUS)....

I have never seen as much deception in my life as I have on this site from the workers for.....

The deception is coming from you my dear Young man.

It is VERY fortunate, however, that some here do insist on speaking clearly on what the bible says.

2 Peter 2:1 and other scripture, is referring to those who teach incorrect doctrine.
Doctrine that is heretical and will lead many to destruction and Death.

It's heretical because it was not part of the original Church at the time of Jesus and shortly thereafter.

Heretics have invaded Christianity from the beginning, and and have been resisted by true believers who have kept the faith pure. Also in the end times the pure faith must be retained.

Not the faith invaded by hyper grace, word of faith, and water-downers of God's word.

 

[dcontroversal]

The deception is coming from you my dear Young man.

It is VERY fortunate, however, that some here do insist on speaking clearly on what the bible says.

2 Peter 2:1 and other scripture, is referring to those who teach incorrect doctrine.
Doctrine that is heretical and will lead many to destruction and Death.

It's heretical because it was not part of the original Church at the time of Jesus and shortly thereafter.

Heretics have invaded Christianity from the beginning, and and have been resisted by true believers who have kept the faith pure. Also in the end times the pure faith must be retained.

Not the faith invaded by hyper grace, word of faith, and water-downers of God's word.

When you speak....I hear blah blah blah.........your religion has tainted your view so...go work your way to heaven and stand in that plenteous in number at the last day.....faith alone saves, the Holy Spirit indwells all believers and can be grieved by sin or disobedience.....

Now....run with it and say I am pushing a sinful lifestyle and do as you please doctrine FRAN.....

 

[mailmandan]

YOU are making it complicated.

How?

Why bring up Mormons?

Why not? Mormons consider the Mormon faith to be Christian and Mormons (along with others who are mixed up in various false religions and cults) find their way onto Christian forums and have various interpretations of Scripture. Just saying. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian truly obeys Him. Not everyone who names the name of Christ is of the household of faith, so their ideas of obeying Him erroneously results in salvation by works.

What does Obey mean? Do we need to know other cult religions to understand this?

We need to understand that without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how much so called obedience that someone attempts to conjure up through the flesh.

Obey means to obey. Do we need Mr. Webster?

Did these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 obey Christ? They certainly thought they did.

Just read Mathew chapters 5 to 7. The Beatìtudes. Jesus gave very many teachings.

Apart from faith, obedience is futile.

Are we to obey them or NOT?

SIMPLE.

I've heard so many people say SIMPLE in regards to obedience, yet they go on to teach salvation by works.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace777, just wanted to point out some things before going to sleep. The Greek here is talking about obedience to the whole truth of the Word of God not only one aspect of God's Word but if you like, every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. It means completely relying on Christ (the Word of God) for salvation

Greek
πίστις
pistis
pis'-tis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence ; moral conviction of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher, especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

God bless you

Your assessment is not accurate on the believing part about "all" the word of God for salvation.

Jesus told the rich ruler when he asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life." Jesus gave him the law of Moses which was the covenant he was under at the time. Jesus did this to expose the fact that he had broken the very 1st commandment and he had money as his "god".

Do we believe the word of God concerning the law of Moses now for salvation in the New Covenant? Of course not. We say in the New Covenant what Paul said in Acts 16:3013 - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

To believe in Christ means to believe in what He has already done for us on the cross and resurrection.

To obey Christ in the New Covenant is to believe on Him alone and in this right believing - we get right thinking and in this right thinking we get right living from His life being manifested and it is His fruit being in and through us being brought forth so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

The process for salvation in Christ is simple. Works do not enter the picture at all for salvation as only He is our Savior - we don't save ourselves.

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple and easy but it wasn't cheap as it cost our Lord His life and blood to obtain eternal redemption for us that believe. Heb. 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

I trust you will have a good night's rest. Bless you.

 

[dcontroversal]

How?

Why not? Mormons consider the Mormon faith to be Christian and Mormons (along with others who are mixed up in various false religions and cults) find their way onto Christian forums and have various interpretations of Scripture. Just saying. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian truly obeys Him. Not everyone who names the name of Christ is of the household of faith, so their ideas of obeying Him erroneously results in salvation by works.

We need to understand that without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how much so called obedience that someone attempts to conjure up through the flesh.

Did these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 obey Christ? They certainly thought they did.

Apart from faith, obedience is futile.

I've heard so many people say SIMPLE in regards to obedience, yet they go on to teach salvation by works.

Yep for sure......tragic day coming for those who push such a false gospel.....the bible is clear....it is faith that saves.....not works or a pseudo blend of faith and works....

Notice...If you believe that GOD has raised him from the dead <----clear enough......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Your assessment is not accurate on the believing part about "all" the word of God for salvation.

Jesus told the rich ruler when he asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life." Jesus gave him the law of Moses which was the covenant he was under at the time. Jesus did this to expose the fact that he had broken the very 1st commandment and he had money as his "god".

Do we believe the word of God concerning the law of Moses now for salvation in the New Covenant? Of course not. We say in the New Covenant what Paul said in Acts 16:3013 - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

To believe in Christ means to believe in what He has already done for us on the cross and resurrection.

To obey Christ in the New Covenant is to believe on Him alone and in this right believing - we get right thinking and in this right thinking we get right living from His life being manifested and it is His fruit being in and through us being brought forth so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

The process for salvation in Christ is simple. Works do not enter the picture at all for salvation as only He is our Savior - we don't save ourselves.

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple and easy but it wasn't cheap as it cost our Lord His life and blood to obtain eternal redemption for us that believe. Heb. 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

I trust you will have a good night's rest. Bless you.

AMEN....another case where verb tense shoots down misinterpretation.......and supports a biblical conclusion......inspired I might add!

 

[Grace777x70]

AMEN....another case where verb tense shoots down misinterpretation.......and supports a biblical conclusion......inspired I might add!

Yes...the understanding of the Greek verb tenses and voices will do much to cement the finished work of Christ in the heart of the believer.

When the Greek listeners heard the words being spoken to them - they knew exactly what was meant by these verb tenses and voices such as "passive" - they knew it was something being done to them - not them "doing it to themselves" to obtain or maintain things for themselves.

We as believers are totally reliant on what Christ has already done for us to live from His life that is in our new creation now. The renewing of our mind is paramount to growing up in Him.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes...the understanding of the Greek verb tenses and voices will do much to cement the finished work of Christ in the heart of the believer.

When the Greek listeners heard the words being spoken to them - they knew exactly what was meant by these verb tenses and voices such as "passive" - they knew it was something being done to them - not them "doing it to themselves" to obtain or maintain things for themselves.

We as believers are totally reliant on what Christ has already done for us to live from His life that is in our new creation now. The renewing of our mind is paramount to growing up in Him.

Exactly why every word should be studied....how many times is the tense and meaning lost in translation and then ends up being applied erroneously and in so doing leads to something the bible does not say.........!

 

[Grace777x70]

Exactly why every word should be studied....how many times is the tense and meaning lost in translation and then ends up being applied erroneously and in so doing leads to something the bible does not say.........!

I agree...they do erroneously come up with a man-centered gospel of works in order to create and maintain righteousness and this is where they come up with this foul doctrine that once in Christ and Christ is in them - people lose their salvation and our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell.

They create this false doctrine even though Jesus Himself said "The Holy Spirit will be in you forever". John 14:16

 

[dcontroversal]

You know the bible is clear....the plenteous in number (many) that come before Jesus and then get cast from his presence are identified by 4 characteristics......

a. They claim to know him (be a Christian)
b. They push their works in his name as their right to enter
c. They push their ability to cast out demons in his name
d. They push their ability to foretell in his name

Most so called Christian religions believe and push the above.....especially the workers for.........they claim to know JESUS...and they push a working for dogma.........

The bible is clear and exactly why Jesus uses a word to describe MANY (PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER) that end up in hell/lake of fire because they believed a false gospel....the same gospel PAUL describes in GALATIANS...a café blend of faith and works.......

I will vehemently stand against this false working for dogma until...

a. JESUS comes or
b. JESUS brings me home

 

[JoDel]

Exactly why every word should be studied....how many times is the tense and meaning lost in translation and then ends up being applied erroneously and in so doing leads to something the bible does not say.........!

AMEN to that opinion of fact

 

[Rosemaryx]

How do people recognise a mature Christian?

They understand why obedience to God's law is wise but also have eternal security in Jesus and His ability to save us fully. They display heavenly wisdom, teach with truth, gentleness, impartiality and patience. They display the fruit of walking with the Holy spirit. They can eat meat and discern good from evil. They gave babies in Christ the milk and don't demand that folks choke the baby by forcing them to eat meat too early. However they teach toddlers how to walk with God and eat meat so they aren't tossed to and forth by false doctrines. They keep the wolves away from the young lambs,

Thanks Ariel82 i needed to hear this...I have been walking with the Lord nearly 2 years and i must admit i have been trying to run before i can walk, getting myself in a state thinking i don`t know enough although when i look back i see how much Jesus has taught me, and is always teaching me...I am still drinking milk but i am also starting to chew a little, your post has given me comfort because i know you are speaking from Gods Wisdom ...xox...

 

[UnderGrace]

He sure did give many teachings, like the beatitudes, to show how completely unable were are to reach them.

Thereby pointing to Himself as the fulfillment.

We live in His perfection not our own feeble attempts to be like Him.

YOU are making it complicated.

Why bring up Mormons?

What does Obey mean? Do we need to know other cult religions to understand this?

Obey means to obey. Do we need Mr. Webster?

Just read Mathew chapters 5 to 7. The Beatìtudes. Jesus gave very many teachings.

Are we to obey them or NOT?

SIMPLE.