Not By Works

[Grace777x70]

SOOOOO many people overlook the verb tenses of the Greek N.T.......man.....it settles a bunch of questions and puts to bed a bunch of false theology....

I agree...I love the perfect tense and the ramifications of what that means when we read that in a verse. The Greek listener would know exactly what that meant when he heard the perfect tense being used especially when used in the passive voice.

For example Eph. 2:8

By grace You have been saved through faith. Have been saved = perfect passive.

 

[JoDel]

Reading through the "books of Moses", especially Exodus... it parallels with our present world attitude, in that "the world doesn't need God". I don't think it takes a bible scholar or theology professor to point out ALL of the rites and rituals (works) God demanded... But all were foreshadows of Jesus. Every detail pointed toward Him and the tearing of the veil in the temple at His death was unmistakably the message from God that we could NOW enter into the holy of holies through the blood of Jesus. Our sins not pushed ahead to the next year... but wiped out FOREVER! ~ How could ANY "work" we might employ, ever measure up to the FINISHED WORK of the cross.

 

[UnderGrace]

So true.... often we do not even realize how a supposed doctrine that is not really supported by scripture has become part of our beliefs.

Those "strongholds" as you say are indeed powerful, but what is really interesting is they make a mess of scripture since they so often contradict each other, as well, these strongholds make the Christian life more of a burden than a joy.

I think it is so important at some point to "free your mind" of everything you have been taught and start fresh.... it is amazing what you will learn about your supposed dearly held beliefs and what will also be confirmed as Truth.

But the starting point has to be the finished work of the cross and being a new creation in Christ.

Jesus said in Mark 7:13 and Matthew 15:6 that we can make the word of God of no effect by our traditions. The thing about traditions is - we don't know we have them until we see them in the light of the gospel of Christ and His finished work.

Paul warned the Colossians not to be held captive by the traditions of men. Col. 2:8

Religiously taught traditions can the strongest strongholds in the mind because we think we are "defending the truth" but we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions" that are in fact contrary to the word of God.

I always ask the Father to reveal the Lord Jesus Christ and His work to me and thank Him for the Holy Spirit who takes the things of God and of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and reveals them to us.

 

[Grace777x70]

God's sheep hear His Voice...

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)

"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy." (Pro 28:13)

"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgave the iniquity of my sin." (Psalms 32:5)

" And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1John 2:3)
" He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4)

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matt 6:9-13)

"For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Rom 10:10) - (context Jesus is only your Lord if you follow him).

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)

"And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments." (Dan 9:4)

"And they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins." (Matt 3:6 )

And when you view all those scriptures "in context" of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant through the work of Christ and the fact that there is no scripture that states a "believer" that is in Christ needs to ask for any further forgiveness of sins once they are in Christ and Christ is in them.

We can all string a bunch of scriptures from different covenants and come up with a religious teaching of any sort we like.

The New Covenant in fact says the complete opposite - that in Christ "we have the forgiveness of sins".

This is the New Covenant way and truth that is in Christ. Forgiveness is a done deal.

Colossians 3:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Ephesians 1:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace ( not if we ask for forgiveness - in Him we have it - time to believe in what Christ has done )[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Our sins are forgiven because of His name's sake.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

 

[JoDel]

I'm so thankful "works" are not what God wants from us. It is difficult for people to realize HE JUST WANTS OUR LOVE AND TO BE LOVED BY HIM. To reverse the curse Adam brought upon the world and to bring us into the relationship He intended from the beginning. ~ I marvel at the thought, the scripture "Who am I that You would be mindful of me"? His answer is always the same... You ARE MY CHILD. Try wrapping your brain around the humility we all should assume before Him, rather than wasting that opportunity to argue the point.

 

[Grace777x70]

So true.... often we do not even realize how a supposed doctrine that is not really supported by scripture has become part of our beliefs.

Those "strongholds" as you say are indeed powerful, but what is really interesting is they make a mess of scripture since they so often contradict each other, as well, these strongholds make the Christian life more of a burden than a joy.

I think it is so important at some point to "free your mind" of everything you have been taught and start fresh.... it is amazing what you will learn about your supposed dearly held beliefs and what will also be confirmed as Truth.

But the starting point has to be the finished work of the cross and being a new creation in Christ.

I agree and one very big stronghold I had in my religious mind from my church teachings and a big tradition was this 1 John 1:9 thing.

The Lord had to use different methods from different people in order for me to be able to finally see what is really being said. Now I say "How in the world could I not see that."

So, I fully understand when people are opposed to it when they hear it - I know I was...

All we can do - is put the scriptures out there and the teachings and leave it all in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

 

[LoveGodForever]

And when you view all those scriptures "in context" of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant through the work of Christ and the fact that there is no scripture that states a "believer" that is in Christ needs to ask for any further forgiveness of sins once they are in Christ and Christ is in them.

We can all string a bunch of scriptures from different covenants and come up with a religious teaching of any sort we like.

The New Covenant in fact says the complete opposite - that in Christ "we have the forgiveness of sins".

This is the New Covenant way and truth that is in Christ. Forgiveness is a done deal.

Colossians 3:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Ephesians 1:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace ( not if we ask for forgiveness - in Him we have it - time to believe in what Christ has done )[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Our sins are forgiven because of His name's sake.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

God will be your judge my friend.... I don't think anything I can say to you will change your thinking. Be warned however if you knowingly sin and continue in sin God's Word tells us that the wages of sin is death and if you do not repent and seek God's forgiveness and confess your sins you will not be saved.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (sin); Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." (Rom 1:18-22)

May God help you.

 

[Katy-follower]

My point is that there are many different reasons why people don't believe or trust in eternal security...

1. they have a hard time trusting that God really loves them that much.
2. They may have a false gospel
3. They may have a false image of who God really is.

Etc

How we address people ago help them understand eternal security should be based on if

1,they have true saving faith in the true gospel and just immature Christian
2. They need to hear the true gospel beacuse they have a false one.

Exactly. I believe the enemy is trying to create a "visible" unity between the truth and the lie, in order to deceive. We see evidence of this, in that there are non believers trying to be saved by works as well as believers trying to be made perfect by works.

We know Christ came to bring division between the truth and the lie. He wants believers to be separate and not compromise (Matthew 10:34-39, Ephesians 5:8-14). It's the enemy that wants unity, and this unity attempts to destroy the church from within, by trying to alter the gospel message that's being given out, in order to prevent the lost from hearing the true gospel. And I think he goes after young believers that are not yet mature. They become tangled up in that messy web and are unable to grow, because they doubt God's promises, particularly the basics.

The lost already have no hope, many of them stuck in bondage to a false religion of works/conditional salvation. So what hope is there in a salvation that can be lost?

God knew there would be believers who doubt their salvation at some point, which is why we see numerous scriptures that continually reassure us. That we may know we have eternal life!! The word "eternal" should be enough!

There are so many, but just two that come to mind...

1 John 5:11-13: "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God"

Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose"

 

[BillG]

Hi BillG nice to meet you here in CC

Our future sins are only forgiven on the conditions of God's Word.....

"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John 1:9)

Our faith in God's Word allows Jesus to do the healing in our lives. This same faith and belief in God's Word changes the sinner into a child of God allowing us to walk in newness of life. I life the follows Jesus...

"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." (John 3:15)

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,10 leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." (1Pet 2:21-22).

If you see your Faith in God's Word is not changing your life to free you from sin and you are continuing to knowingly sin, you do not have the faith of Jesus (God's Word).

God bless you

Nice to meet you as well.

I did say we need to confess when we get it wrong.
I also did say that forgiveness of sins is not licence to sin.

God bless as well.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Nice to meet you as well.

I did say we need to confess when we get it wrong.
I also did say that forgiveness of sins is not licence to sin.

God bless as well.

Hi BillG,

Oh my apologies we were saying the same thing already. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

God bless you

 

[Katy-follower]

Exactly. I believe the enemy is trying to create a "visible" unity between the truth and the lie, in order to deceive. We see evidence of this, in that there are non believers trying to be saved by works as well as believers trying to be made perfect by works.

We know Christ came to bring division between the truth and the lie. He wants believers to be separate and not compromise (Matthew 10:34-39, Ephesians 5:8-14). It's the enemy that wants unity, and this unity attempts to destroy the church from within, by trying to alter the gospel message that's being given out, in order to prevent the lost from hearing the true gospel. And I think he goes after young believers that are not yet mature. They become tangled up in that messy web and are unable to grow, because they doubt God's promises, particularly the basics.

The lost already have no hope, many of them stuck in bondage to a false religion of works/conditional salvation. So what hope is there in a salvation that can be lost?

God knew there would be believers who doubt their salvation at some point, which is why we see numerous scriptures that continually reassure us. That we may know we have eternal life!! The word "eternal" should be enough!

There are so many, but just two that come to mind...

1 John 5:11-13: "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God"

Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose"

And to be clear, incase I'm misunderstood....

What we see is one group trying to be saved by works and another group trying to be made perfect by works. One can wrongfully assume that both groups are non believers because it comes across that way. But they're not. One is trying to be saved by works and the other is already saved but is trying to be made perfect by works. Immature/doubting believers.

My thoughts.... the enemy wants it to appear as if there's unity between these believers and non believers. It weakens the gospel message.

 

[PeterJens]

Ariel - How much do I know Wesleys theology? Not a vast amount, yet I would call him
a brother.

You respect and call a brother a man who without blinking is happy to call Wesley a deceiver.

Now if you cannot see the sin and apostacy of this approach to spirituality and judging other
in the Lord, what is your foundation really on. It strikes me it is actually empathetic with a
group of people you get on with, and then you work from there. This is building an emotional
loyalty foundation while claiming you are merely talking facts and theology.

Often the very thing we deny we are doing, unless we are aware of how it operates and works
in our lives is actually the thing that operates within us.

I wonder if anyone within the "grace" camp, has not had a hyper legalist lifestyle for many years
and been pedantic over rules and obedience, and condemning sin, and being proud of self righteousness?

If one is converted out of this into the love of Christ, the obvious reaction is to then reject anything
similar to this background.

The problem with legalism is it is missing love, the love of the cross and Christ empowering it.
Now I could never have been a legalist because I was always too weak, and love was the issue I
wanted resolving not rules, or self grandeous puffing up. It was the hypocracy of grand standing
that I hated, and everything about appearance over reality.

So it appears this is rare in the "grace" camp, weakness driven by love, reality breaking forth into
darkness with a glorious light.

It also makes sense why I get seen as a legalist, because this is all you know as loves expression in
righteousness. I grew up in a society based on show, and it is false and brutal, and people die inside
when they need love and hope.

So I am an alien in a world of hurt and pain that has not been forgiven or purified.

Until we can forgive the churches or groups who we invested so much of our lives in, we have not
gone beyond them, but still are bound in some way to the errors they possess.

Every word, attitude and impulse will be tainted by the animosity we feel, and we can never see the
issues or gain the spiritual maturity we need to walk in the light with Christ.

How do I know this? Because so many believers who have had great experiences in Christ want to
send me to Hell because of their pasts not who I am or how I behave.

Until you can truly love me, as I am, you are not free. This may sound needy, but in truth, this is
where Christ is. He sees us as we are, and loves us, and desires we walk in His ways and His grace.

Paul said it like this

"Therefore I urge you to imitate me"
1 cor 4:16

Now Paul is so confident in his walk with Christ he is saying he is the example to follow
as he follows Christ.

"Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ."
1 cor 11:1

Now I know many who read this will rebel against these words. But in this feeling ask yourself
why are you rebelling? What teaching are you following that following the example of Paul is
wrong?

Who are you listening to? Gods word or the teaching of men?

 

[PeterJens]

A mixing of covenants OT & NT

Interesting accusation.
I have a better proposition. Those who do not know how to love others do not know God.

We are called to demonstrate the love we have for Christ in the love we share one with
another.

I have seen it written that loving others is just to drive us on to needing Christ more, the
implication that it is actually impossible.

But this is the point of the gospel and the encounter with Christ through the cross. We see
what love is and it comes to dwell in our hearts.

So if you find all you energy is spent condemning other believers rather than loving them you
know you have been deceived and the teaching you are following is not from God.

Jesus said
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Jesus is calling us to be perfect in how we love.
So do you love me? If you claim to follow Christ, you are to love me from your heart.

Now I love you, and I want you know know the love of Christ through the cross unto
salvation and the Kingdom of Heaven.

And do you know God is love?

"I ask that we love one another." 2 John 1:5
"Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another." 1 John 4:11
"Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble."
1 Peter 3:8
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10:24
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Eph 4:2
serve one another humbly in love. Gal 5:13
Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. Rom 12:10

It is amazing to me the level of resistance to this essential nature of the Kingdom of
heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My daughter was Navy/Marine corpsman out of Pendleton for 7 years. Did a tour in Iraq, Al Asaad. She taught me that once one becomes a marine, they are always a marine. Her military bearing taught me much in respecting our armed forces... MUCH MORE. So, my appreciation may be a bit biased .

Ahh, your daughter was an 8404, I got mine from camp Johnson, NC. Although I was out of the navy before the first gulf war started,

 

[Calmador]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Faith is not a work.

The book of James differentiates works and faith. Faith without works... is dead faith.

Also, anyone asking for Jesus as their Lord and savior does not save. If Jesus didn't die on the cross, if God did not choose to potentially save all of mankind, then even asking for salvation does not save. This is a shows that asking or receiving, in faith, does not save without Jesus. This means that Jesus is the 100% salvation gift that is needed. You asking for this 100% gift of salvation does not add to the 100% salvation gift.

 

[Ariel82]

Makes me think of Patrick Swayze....he was a Buddhist and toward the end of his life from Pancreatic cancer I watched an interview with him and he was terrified of death......I truly felt sorry for him and wished there was a way I could have witnessed to him....as far as I know he died that way......tragic........

Glad you found Jesus.....!

I didn't find Jesus, He found me and helped me see past the kids people tell themaelves to what He tells us via the Bible.

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus said in Mark 7:13 and Matthew 15:6 that we can make the word of God of no effect by our traditions. The thing about traditions is - we don't know we have them until we see them in the light of the gospel of Christ and His finished work.

Paul warned the Colossians not to be held captive by the traditions of men. Col. 2:8

Religiously taught traditions can the strongest strongholds in the mind because we think we are "defending the truth" but we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions" that are in fact contrary to the word of God.

I always ask the Father to reveal the Lord Jesus Christ and His work to me and thank Him for the Holy Spirit who takes the things of God and of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and reveals them to us.

I think you are taking the verses out of context.
1. There was no church traditions at that time because they were just being established. The author was talking about what people coming to the faith believes beforehand.

There is benefit in learning what has been historically accepted as doctrine and new doctrines.

All cults have "new revelations" their first thing to do is attack God's church and separate people by causing division.

I always red flag anyone who uses such tactics.

For a time I believed the lies that we didn't need to go to church, but God showed me that fellowship and learning to walk together with others is part of how God created us to be.

I agree that we should examine all church traditions via the light of scripture.,,,

However I disagree that "we dont even know we have them" perhaps this is true for some who were raised in a church that didn't challenge them to study and ground themselves in scriptures and prayer.

I have found a lot of error can be avoided by learning what is historically taught by the disciples.

The Bible warns us that some will try and teach us a "new thing" and not to heed them if they go against what the Bible teaches.

It just seems wrong when members of CC attack the Church.., I always wonder what cliff they will lead people off of since they are separating folks from the fellowship and protection of the church?

What exactly do YOU mean when you say "religious traditions"?

I think of the Apostles creed, the doxology, that Jesus is God, the trinity, salvation is by faith and not works, and other such established doctrines traditionally held by the Church

 

[Ariel82]

The Christian "traditions" I never really understood was Santa Claus and the Easter bunny, but I have already told my kids that we never celebrated it in my family and it was a man-made tradition. Fun if they wanted to partake but not found in the Bible.

During Christmas time I prefer the nativity scenes and the plays that tell people about Jesus birth and the miracles that surrounded Him.

Sometimes I wished people would put Bible verses in Easter eggs instead of candy or with the candy. That way you can feed their souls as well as their cavities.

I know some people go through the motions of church but I find it reassuring to have a certain amount of routine. However I believe everyone should have an active prayer life outside of church and study the Bible individually to make sure their pastor is drawing from the Bible for their sermons....scripture, traditions, logic and experience all work to make us mature in Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

God will be your judge my friend.... I don't think anything I can say to you will change your thinking.

May God help you.

My God has helped me and He is mighty to save.

I will give you my testimony of what the Lord has done when He revealed to me my complete dependence on the gospel of the grace of Christ.

He has changed my mind ( As, only God can give true repentance ) on how I view a lot of things concerning Him and my life in Christ and of course that means all kinds of different sin - for "whatsoever is not of faith is in fact sin ".

I have posted this a few times in CC but you are new so it was probably before you joined.

If people feel the need to castigate what the Lord has done in my life - then so be it. I am not denying Christ in me and what He has done. I am not ashamed of the gospel - for in it is the power of God for real salvation.

I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.

I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him.

Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. (they were initially to me as well )

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...which is not only living separate from the "biggie sins" but everything that He reveals about anything that is contrary to life and His nature that is in me....this has led me to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!


I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.

I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..

It will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.

 

[Grace777x70]

Nice to meet you as well.

I did say we need to confess when we get it wrong.
I also did say that forgiveness of sins is not licence to sin.

God bless as well.

I agree....I too believe in confessing sin but NOT in order to receive forgiveness because I believe the gospel message of Christ that in Christ I have redemption the forgiveness of sins just like Paul said in Eph. 1:7. Col. 1:6

Sometimes people mis-interpret what is really being said and other times they deliberately mis-represent what is said too, so I will say this to hopefully stop both from occurring.

Here is what I do when I sin.

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him. How what I did was wrong.

Sometimes I use the word sin and sometimes I don't. I think that is irrelevant. I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son is my Lord and is my life and my righteousness - that Jesus' Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins. I confess what God says about me. I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him.

I have not asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now because I believe in what Christ has already done for me on the cross and resurrection....but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do.

You know - He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me and I just sit there in His presence and weep. I can't move a muscle. He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me - all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me - most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.