Not By Works

[Stephen63]

The bible is clear......ONE DOOR, ONE correct message (gospel) not two, three or fifty......JESUS was clear....the number is plenteous that come before him espousing the same doctrine the workers for espouse.

a. They claim to know JESUS
b. They boast of their works <----faith plus works to gain entrance = a differnet door than the one given
c. The expect to enter heaven

Gospel of HETEROS (different KIND) translated another in Galatians 1
NO POWER
DOUBLE CURSED
FOOLISH
BEWITCHED

The answer is clear..........Salvation by JESUS, BY faith void of works, based upon GRACE and the gift of GOD in Christ and his work

Which reminds me..... those double cursed, are they still saved? Paul was writing to the church, not to sinners.

 

[dcontroversal]

Which reminds me..... those double cursed, are they still saved? Paul was writing to the church, not to sinners.

Correction...

a. The the CHURCHES in GALATIA
b. The false gospel of faith plus works is what is double cursed and anyone who preaches it is double cursed and false
c. Anyone who believes it is FOOLISH and BEWITCHED
d. THE believers had been tricked by those preaching the false gospel

In my view

a. Those who placed initial trust into the false gospel are NOT SAVED
b. Those who had trusted Christ biblically and then fallen for the false gospel (members of the churches who fall under grouping a) were still saved....biblical salvation cannot be lost!


JESUS was clear...the Pharisees encompassed land and sea to make one prostlyte and in so doing made them a 2 fold child of hell....they had to get over...

a. A false religion/way
b. Their lost state

2 fold!

Group Aabove is covered by JESUS in the plenteous in number that come before his throne....they mixed faith and works as their initial belief.....a different door than faith and faith alone.

 

[PeterJens]

HAHAH your hilarious dude......serious.....don't even address me unless you can be honest....serious....!

Honesty? dc - you need an enemy. The point being made is simple.
We are saved through faith in Christ but it has to show in a righteous walk, not maybe.
Evil deeds, passions etc and evil and not part of the people of God who are called to
be pure Holy, blameless, above reproach.

Some people claim there is a higher level of sinning that no one can meet, but this is
just OCD legalistic junk. In Christ sin does not bind us, so if you still have issues, humble
yourself before the King, repent and accept His forgiveness.

People who do not understand love find an enemy somewhere else than in sin.
Religion is a good thing, people desiring real answers to lives problems.
God believes in religion, He designed a temple, instructed how priests offered sacrifices
put in place laws for personal and civil government. Nowhere else in human history
had such a thing been done. Today the words still shine as glorious, unique, stunning.

In a world of sexual abandon, child sacrificing, God brought love, justice, resolution.
And in Christ it was all made plain, the truth of the power of righteousness, sacrificial
love, that takes evil and returns a blessing, that shines like a light in the darkness.

This is the Kingdom of Heaven. The lawless will always be false heretical imposters,
taking authority with only slander and animosity as their weapons. Know their fruit well.

 

[PeterJens]

The foolishness of anti-religion.

Atheists claim religion is the opium of the people. They hate any law or judgements of sin.
Lawlessness at its core says people know what good and evil are and are not corrupted.

So here we have a religious group who claim the insights of atheists, yet want respect as
the preachers of truth. And their fruit is calling believers unsaved because this group
believe you should walk like Jesus. There is no deeper self destructive set of ideas possible.

And their respect of scripture is to deny it. People can lose faith? No, impossible. People can
be Holy? No impossible. People can be not of the world? No impossible. Rather we should
dream worldly dreams and see God help us fulfill them, that is our right??????

These are no faithful followers of Christ but excuses of open sin and worldliness.

 

[LoveGodForever]

WOW so many pages I haven't been able to read all of them. I just wanted to say Salvation is a wonderful free gift and there is nothing we can do to earn it. Its a gift of God because

"God so loved our world that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16)"

Keep in mind though salvation is from sin and a sinful mind with a new heart (thoughts and feelings)

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:5 and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" (Heb 8:10)

"And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest." (Heb 8:11)

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

"Thou believes that there is one God; thou does well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10)

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1John 2:3)

"He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4)

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,1 he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

"Whosoever commits sin transgres also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

"And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him."

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

"He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother." (1John 3:3-10)

God bless you all in Christ Love!

 

[Ariel82]

Higher level of sinning = rejection of Jesus


People reach it all the time.

Why would anyone "need an enemy"? Satan a,d his minions aren't enough?

More strawmen accusations,from PeterJens...don't you ever get tired of it?

 

[Ariel82]

1. Who are you comparing to lawless atheist?

2. Only people condemned to hell are those who teach that you must do works to earn your salvation because they try and establish another foundation that is not Jesus Christ.

3. Godly living is encouraged.

4. People can lose faith but God is faithful and able to restore their faith and draw them out of the pigpen back to Him.

5. People are made holy by the imputed righteousness of Christ.this alien righteousness allows us to develop our own proper righteousness.

6. We are strangers traveling through this foriegn land back home to our father.

7. Dream worldly dreams? Now who are you accusing of being part of the WOF movement?

8. Why don't you tell us all who you classify as "These are no faithful followers of Christ but excuses of open sin and worldliness."?

 

[Ariel82]

If you know and believe that we are saved by grace... kept by grace and grow in grace when we abide in Jesus then there is no sinless spirit doctrine, there is a however a doctrine which teaches us that Jesus is our well of righteousness where we never thirst because we rest in His work.

No more counting our numerous failures but rather looking upon Him and His victory the one who succeeded in conquering death and sin.

Yeah...,doesn't address the questions I still have about G777 words or sinless spirit doctrine he mentioned in this thread..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153584-consequences-sinning.html

My post:

Sorry I am stuck on this statement:

So, the inner man in Christ created in righteousness and holiness cannot sin - not even once. Sin done in the flesh does not affect the inner man in Christ.
When you sin the whole body, heart, mind and soul is effected.

What happened is God gives you a bath daily and that is why His children are holy and righteous. Not because your sin doesn't effect your inner man. What is pure and totally unaffected by our sin is the Holy Spirit, who will never leave us. However our spirit is not the same as the Holy Spirit. Our spirit is tied to our mind and our heart and our bodies.

When we sin it like adding salt to our pure life giving water that God gave us. When we sin it hides our light behind a bushel.

When we pray and listen, the Holy Spirit adds oil to our lamps and burns away the Bush that we hide under, the fig leaves we use to hide our sins. When we read the Bible and listen, God gives us discernment to separate the salt from the water and let's the water fall back as life giving rain.

Learning God's laws allows you to see the edges of the path God wants us to walk. It gives you lines in the race called life. It helps you from falling in a ditch. It helps you discern God's true light from the false gospels preached by men.

Why would you call teaching of the law legalistic?

God's laws are good and teach people to live godly lives.

God's laws tells us to forgive others even when we don't think they deserve it. Go the extra mile, turn the other cheek, give your enemies the shirt off your back.

God's laws tell us if we want to be great in heaven, we are called to be servants here on earth. Wash others feet, humbly sit in the lowest place in the feast, esteem others comfort and joy higher than your own.

God's law tells us to be content with the blessings God has already given us. Don't envy your neighbors wealth and good fortune. Bless God for your food,shelter, life. Don't worry about tomorrow because God loves you more than the grass whom he clothes with flowers. Focus on today and trust God to provide for your needs. Focus on doing the good works He has given you to do instead of worrying about the things the world concerns itself with.

So what is wrong with God's laws?

 

[mailmandan]

Phil. 3:12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus(doesn't have it yet). 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Paul presses for a prize that doesn't exist?

Why is Paul pressing at all if it's a "done deal"?

How is it Paul doesn't have it yet?

Why is Paul "laying hold of it" when it's supposed to already be his?

How come Paul has to live by standards when he no longer should have to do anything?

How come Paul isn't already perfect like G777 claims that he himself is?

How come most of you HG's will ignore this & not answer me?

The prize, the upward call of God goes beyond merely receiving the gift of eternal life through faith. That's why Paul doesn't have it yet and it's not a done deal, but Paul was already saved prior to becoming perfect/mature/full grown/completeness of Christian character.

You seem to imply that salvation by grace through faith in Christ is "insufficient" to keep us saved and "in addition" to faith in Christ, we must reach entire sanctification in our lifetime/become absolutely perfect/sinless or else we won't remain saved. You also make it sound like anything short of a gold medal in the race means disqualified from the Olympics all together/will not receive eternal life. In addition to salvation, the Bible talks about rewards and crowns.

We are not merely "initially" saved by grace through faith and then ultimately saved based on the merits of our performance. Also, salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[Ariel82]

Aaargh my quotes are off and edit time expired

So, the inner man in Christ created in righteousness and holiness cannot sin - not even once. Sin done in the flesh does not affect the inner man in Christ..

When you sin the whole body, heart, mind and soul is effected

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't even pretend to speak for G777 but will make the following statements....

a. Our birth is spiritual (born again of the spirit)
b. Our spiritul birth is of incorruptable SEED (cannot be corrupted, beyond the abilty to be corrupted)
c. Our spiritual birth results in the SEAL of God (by the Holy Spirit)
d. That seal stands sure in the fact that God KNOWS all who are his (THE seal identifies us as belonging to God)
e. It is the SPIRIT that we have that has been BORN of GOD and does NOT SIN because it is (incorruptable) <-John

Jesus speaks to this when he speaks to his saved, immersed disciples that is identifed as a church atleast twice in te preent tense when he states, "The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak"

God's kingdom is SPIRITUAL, GOD is SPIRIT, OUR BIRTH is spiritual and the flesh profits nothing.....the body is dead because of sin, not subject unto the word of God, neither indeed can be.....however...the SPIRIT that is born of incorruptable seed always seeks to do right, is sinless and eternally secure in Christ......Jesus, John and Paul all cover this...though rejected, denied and swept under the rug by many.....especially those who teach salvation can be lost or gained and kept by works.............

Amen...the truth that we have righteous perfect spirits because of our union with Christ is a stumbling block to some of our church teachings. We are not a new evolution - we are a new creation. They don't see the new heart in Christ. They don't understand that it's the renewing of the mind to the realities of what Christ ahs done that produces true growth by grace through faith.

There is no scripture that says at the last minute God makes us perfect when we die and go to be with the Lord.

Instead, with the body gone and the brain that houses the un-renewed thoughts that are contrary to Christ will not be there. Then we will manifest our true selves and reflect 100% the nature of our righteousness in Christ in our inner man of the heart.

The truth is we will never be more righteous then we are right now in the inner man - the true person that is one with Christ. He has perfected forever those that are being sanctified ( set apart ).

Paul in Philippians was simply saying that he has not yet been made perfect in manifesting all that is in him in Christ and to know Him as we should. We have this treasure ( Christ in us ) in an earthen vessel. We know in part and we manifest in part because of the infirmity of the flesh and our un-renewed minds.

Philippians 3:10-13 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

[SUP]11 [/SUP] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

We are perfect in the new creation but we still have the flesh that wants to do "it's" desires.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (NASB)
[SUP]22[/SUP] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

[SUP]24 [/SUP] and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

 

[Ariel82]

What kind of faith do people actually have?

1. ""that God is; that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him;" and that he is to be sought by glorifying him as God, by giving him thanks for all things, and by a careful practice of moral virtue, of justice, mercy, and truth, toward their fellow creatures. "

2. believes, not only that there is a wise and powerful God, gracious to reward, and just to punish; but also, that Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, the Saviour of the world. So we find him declaring, in express terms, "I know Thee who Thou art; the Holy One of God" ....God was made manifest in the flesh; that he will "tread all enemies under his feet;" and that "all Scripture was given by inspiration of God."

3. believed on him (Jesus) as to "leave all and follow him;" although they had then power to work miracles, to "heal all manner of sickness, and all manner of disease;" yea, they had then "power and authority over all devils;" and, which is beyond all this, were sent by their Master to "preach the kingdom of God."

*****

Yet you can believe all of the above and still not have a saving faith.

The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith

 

[Grace777x70]

This verse here in 1 John 5:18 says the same thing basically as 1 John 3:9...it says that the one born of God cannot sin. I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

He "cannot sin" - it doesn't say we sin once in awhile until we get better in our behavior. It is impossible for Christ to sin - we are joined as one spirit with Christ in our spirit. Sin does not kick Christ out of our hearts. Sin is confined to the flesh. Roman 7:17-22


It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense. Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin.

What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone?

Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?

There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ.

We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Saving faith is defined as

The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith

.

What faith is it then through which we are saved It may be answered, first, in general, it is a faith in Christ: Christ, and God through Christ, are the proper objects of it. herein, therefore, it is sufficiently, absolutely distinguished from the faith either of ancient or modern heathens. And from the faith of a devil it is fully distinguished by this: it is not barely a speculative, rational thing, a cold, lifeless assent, a train of ideas in the head; but also a disposition of the heart. For thus saith the Scripture, "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness;" and, "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

5. And herein does it differ from that faith which the Apostles themselves had while our Lord was on earth, that it acknowledges the necessity and merit of his death, and the power of his resurrection. It acknowledges his death as the only sufficient means of redeeming man from death eternal, and his resurrection as the restoration of us all to life and immortality; inasmuch as he "was delivered for our sins, and rose again for our justification." Christian faith is then, not only an assent to the whole gospel of Christ, but also a full reliance on the blood of Christ; a trust in the merits of his life, death, and resurrection; a recumbency upon him as our atonement and our life, as given for us, and living in us; and, in consequence hereof, a closing with him, and cleaving to him, as our "wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption," or, in one word, our salvation..

1. Faith in Jesus, so very unlike the heathen faith listed above.

2. Faith that is in our hearts and not just in our minds contrast that to the demonic faith described above.

3. Faith in Jesus death and resurrection,contrast that to the faith the Apostles had in Jesus before He was nailed to the cross.

Some people don't have a saving faith in Jesus, even though they attend church for years.

 

[Ariel82]

Amen...the truth that we have righteous perfect spirits because of our union with Christ is a stumbling block to some of our church teachings. We are not a new evolution - we are a new creation. They don't see the new heart in Christ. They don't understand that it's the renewing of the mind to the realities of what Christ ahs done that produces true growth by grace through faith.

There is no scripture that says at the last minute God makes us perfect when we die and go to be with the Lord.

Instead, with the body gone and the brain that houses the un-renewed thoughts that are contrary to Christ will not be there. Then we will manifest our true selves and reflect 100% the nature of our righteousness in Christ in our inner man of the heart.

The truth is we will never be more righteous then we are right now in the inner man - the true person that is one with Christ. He has perfected forever those that are being sanctified ( set apart ).

Paul in Philippians was simply saying that he has not yet been made perfect in manifesting all that is in him in Christ and to know Him as we should. We have this treasure ( Christ in us ) in an earthen vessel. We know in part and we manifest in part because of the infirmity of the flesh and our un-renewed minds.

Philippians 3:10-13 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

[SUP]11 [/SUP] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

We are perfect in the new creation but we still have the flesh that wants to do "it's" desires.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (NASB)
[SUP]22[/SUP] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

[SUP]24 [/SUP] and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

So perfect to you is sinless?

 

[Ariel82]

In many ways we are still in the womb..,Jesus doesn't just save our spirit, He will redeem our bodies too.

Romans 8
19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

 

[Ariel82]

1 Corinthians 6:19 ►
New International Version
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Babes in Christ are not automatically mature or "perfect" in Christ and that is what Paul strives for...maturity and oneness with God and His will and wisdom for our lives, joined together with other believers in the Body of Christ.

****
Phil. 3:12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

wooooooow

ariel....
youre awesome

i needed this verse... probably for different reasons than you posted

im rereading philippians after i pray

praise God

 

[Grace777x70]

So perfect to you is sinless?

We are sinless in the new creation that is in Christ. Can Christ sin? We are joined in one spirit with Him. 1 Cor. 6:17. If we do a sin in the flesh - does Christ leave us? Of course not. It's religious foolishness.

There is no such thing as sinless perfection in the flesh. We have this treasure in earthen vessels. We will always have sin in our flesh as Paul says until we go to be with the Lord.

The flesh and the law of sin in it "speaks" to us and deceives us so no person is 100% manifesting in our lives the perfect love and life of Christ that is in the new creation now.


We know in part and we manifest Christ outwardly in part because of the infirmity of our flesh.

Romans 7:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

Then Romans 8 talks about us "being in the spirit because Christ is in us" and walking by the spirit.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10[/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Thank God one day we will get new bodies without the "law of sin" in them.

 

[Ariel82]

I don't even pretend to speak for G777 but will make the following statements....

a. Our birth is spiritual (born again of the spirit)
b. Our spiritul birth is of incorruptable SEED (cannot be corrupted, beyond the abilty to be corrupted)
c. Our spiritual birth results in the SEAL of God (by the Holy Spirit)
d. That seal stands sure in the fact that God KNOWS all who are his (THE seal identifies us as belonging to God)
e. It is the SPIRIT that we have that has been BORN of GOD and does NOT SIN because it is (incorruptable) <-John

Jesus speaks to this when he speaks to his saved, immersed disciples that is identifed as a church atleast twice in te preent tense when he states, "The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak"

God's kingdom is SPIRITUAL, GOD is SPIRIT, OUR BIRTH is spiritual and the flesh profits nothing.....the body is dead because of sin, not subject unto the word of God, neither indeed can be.....however...the SPIRIT that is born of incorruptable seed always seeks to do right, is sinless and eternally secure in Christ......Jesus, John and Paul all cover this...though rejected, denied and swept under the rug by many.....especially those who teach salvation can be lost or gained and kept by works.............

A. The firstfruit of our rebirth is spiritual but will also be physical.

B. Jesus is the incorruptible Seed.

C. God sends the Holy Spirit to seal us

D. I agree without the Holy Spirit seal, you are not a born again child of God.

E. And this is where it falls apart for me. The Holy Spirit is incorruptible. Our spirit is linked to our hearts and mind and body.

If our flesh sins, it affects our soul. We can't divide our being and separate that this part is holy and this part is not.

Someone once told me our spiritual life is a stream of Life giving water flowing from God into our hearts. When we sin we throw trash into that stream, eventually the stream is so blocked up that parts of us die.

God is able to reach us even in the pits of our sin and produce in us godly sorrow unto repentance. Our tears wash away the trash and God restores the purity of the stream.

We are born again children of God. However we still need our daily bread and God's life giving water.

Sin affects not just these bodies that will die but our soul and our witness to the world.

God is able to heal both but not if we deny our need for His healing and reject His chastenment.