Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Ariel82
Guest
I can give a spectrum of it may help your understanding.
1. Extreme straw man 1: Antinomism...Also called easy believism..where people give a mental assent or verbal confession without any true change of heart or desire to actually follow God. Also called fire proof insurance, etc.
2. Biblical based salvation by imputation of Christ righteousness and saving faith in Jesus. Born again of the Holy Spirit and lead by Him to live godly lives, produce good fruit and good works. Held secure by God's power and love (monogerism)
3. Saved by grace, maintained by good works, can lose salvation (synergism)
4. Extreme straw man 2. Saves by good works (works salvation, other pagan religuons, pharisees, Legalist, etc)
******
Most reject groups 1 and 4 and see them as unbiblical.
Like I said..it's a rough outline. Everyone has their unique way of expressing their beliefs but I do see a difference between those who believe in monogerism and those who believe in synergism...though both like to paint the other group as the extreme version of their respective strawmen.
1. Extreme straw man 1: Antinomism...Also called easy believism..where people give a mental assent or verbal confession without any true change of heart or desire to actually follow God. Also called fire proof insurance, etc.
2. Biblical based salvation by imputation of Christ righteousness and saving faith in Jesus. Born again of the Holy Spirit and lead by Him to live godly lives, produce good fruit and good works. Held secure by God's power and love (monogerism)
3. Saved by grace, maintained by good works, can lose salvation (synergism)
4. Extreme straw man 2. Saves by good works (works salvation, other pagan religuons, pharisees, Legalist, etc)
******
Most reject groups 1 and 4 and see them as unbiblical.
Like I said..it's a rough outline. Everyone has their unique way of expressing their beliefs but I do see a difference between those who believe in monogerism and those who believe in synergism...though both like to paint the other group as the extreme version of their respective strawmen.
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gb9 - No one is one inch tall or over 8 ft but that does not move the discussion forward.
We all have our positions on various issues.
Now it is easy to be black and white and then fit people into these groups.
What I find helpful is to realise perspectives are often a sliding scale.
Understanding similarities and differences can help in talking and communicating.
The problem is everything is a compromise to a degree. Sometime showing the
extremes illustrates what one is implying. Take a contraversial subject like abortion.
Below 24 weeks babies are rarely viable, and later they can survive. So to abort
a baby after 24 weeks is infanticide. Few societies will cope with this. But the
issue of a raped pregnant girl is traumatic, and there are no simple answers.
But maybe threads like this are not grown up enough for people to see and appreciate
others and their conviction, while recognising a good loving heart which desires the
truth and a living God of creation.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No it does not, your trying to make 1 + 0=2 which is not what we believe. It does not because our salvation is not based on one moment of so called faith or mere belief, it is deeper than that.
but since you refuse t try to understand you will never see that. And instead continue to spread lies about people.
God is your judge
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
That may be true, but Peter iS trying to lump us all together, and he is wrong
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Most f us are neither of those,
once again your so trying trying to label everyone you can never figure out what they believe.
why do you not ask instead of just assuming so much, that's what gets you in trouble
here is what I care about - truth. God does not use sliding scales. you either trust Jesus for salvation, which if done from the heart will produce good works and striving not to sin. or one has to be good enough to meet God's standard of perfection. that is it, no more options.
this is where one should set aside feelings and emotions, and accept facts for what they are, no matter if one like it or not.
EG - you do make me laugh. I am not the idea you have in your mind.
You keep on confirming you do not read what I write or understand it.
Either you choose to ignore it or you just project an obtuse ignorance.
I suspect it is just an obtuse ignorance projection because that is far
kinder than you have no clue what we are talking about.
God bless you.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
there is one gospel. Not 1.5 not 2 not 100
only one is right, we can't all be right, that would be universalism
God is my judge and everyones.
Now thankfully why we believe and how we believe is very individual.
Longer term it shows how we handle others.
You seem to have failed to appreciate the differentiation between Moses law and
moral law, the law of Christ.
Now there is never a failure or change of ones belief to admit others hold a different
perspective. And it does not mean you need to call them evil, or lying, or slander.
It would help if you could give up this language and just be a grown up.
I am waiting my friend, because I know I love you and God loves you.
But based on past interactions this is one step you cannot take.
They say the more you tread the same path of behaviour the more it becomes
the default position.
God bless you.
[video=youtube;nQWFzMvCfLE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQWFzMvCfLE&index=11&list=RDMMHcnfT4arZtI[/video]
I agree there is one gospel, Jesus and faith in Him. We seem to all agree this.But how we walk, what we are in Gods eyes, what transformation is, how we grow
from glory to glory varies.
Now how we get the theology structured matters less to me than seeing people healed,
whole, mature, caring lights in a dark place.
Maybe walking after Pauls example or as Christ walks matters nothing to you.
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Ariel82
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
thats funny Peter, you tell people like me we believe things we do not, you continue to prove by when you make up these little senerious you still do not have any idea what we believe,
yet your the one laughing, because according to you, we have no idea we we ourselves believe in order to even think you could b wrong about us,
like I said God is who you will have to answer to, you should stop worrying about what we think, and worry about what HE KNOWS
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, I understand alright, you just can not see, because you STILL do not know what I believe. Lol
I would laugh, but instead I am saddened., but to each his own.. again, God is judge
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
But how we walk, what we are in Gods eyes, what transformation is, how we grow
from glory to glory varies.
Now how we get the theology structured matters less to me than seeing people healed,
whole, mature, caring lights in a dark place.
Maybe walking after Pauls example or as Christ walks matters nothing to you.
no Peter, your faith is in how you walk, not in God, My faith is in God, and this faith causes me to walk as his child, not as the world.
and your strawman attack, it hurts you, makes you look like a little bully. But hey, I lived with it for years, so it does not phase me one bit, but saddens me to no end, I pray you repent soon
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am sorry. I apologize. I did not know this was the place of the not christians who follow
the not bible, to the not heaven, because I know nothing about it, or even the not bible
that describes it.
Maybe you could tell us your not perspective on the not faith from the not heaven.
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Ariel82
Guest
1. 95+% of the scriptures used was Paul's epistles.
2. Paul was constantly covering in these writings the problems of Judiazers adding law to the Gospel. As a matter of fact, most of Paul's scriptures say "works of the law".
3. Paul did not write about any other works but those of the Law, for they were the only "works" problem.
4. Pauls writes in Eph 2:9 not by works, lest any man should boast. This is the works of the Law.
2. Paul was constantly covering in these writings the problems of Judiazers adding law to the Gospel. As a matter of fact, most of Paul's scriptures say "works of the law".
3. Paul did not write about any other works but those of the Law, for they were the only "works" problem.
4. Pauls writes in Eph 2:9 not by works, lest any man should boast. This is the works of the Law.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Oh oh he Is showing his true self, slander, unwilling to repent, blame shift, make every excuse in the book not to own up to his sin.
The question is, are people going to call him out on it, or baby him.
Look at his last post, 3 of us told him we disagree with all 4 points, what did he do? Did he humble himself and try tosee what he said was wrong? No, he attacked and Rambled on about not bible , not heaven whatever.
how long will people put up with that nonsense?