Not By Works

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Ariel82 said:
Ummm pretty sure if you go back in my responses..I said good works are needed for personal sanctification but not salvation.

If you could figure out what these verses meant:

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

****
You wouldn't call God's grace cheap.
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You better believe I wouldn't call God's grace cheap.

YOU call it cheap, by cheapening what He has done for you and by saying that YOU are not required to do anything in return.
I still have NEVER heard you state this spiritual truth.
 
Ariel82 said:
They're not really my cup of tea. Sometimes they seem alright and sometimes their stuff is off the wall unbiblical, Jimbo. Hope you pray and read your Bible to be able to discern the good stuff from the fishy stuff they teach.
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Jimbo is doing very well.
You could learn some stuff from him.
Leave him alone to follow what God is teaching him.

God is to teach him, not you since you preach a cheap gospel.
 
FranC said:
Agree. As we usually do.

Just two comments.

You say we have been sanctified. I say that we are BEING sanctified. We have not been sanctified in this life and probably won't be. In the next life we will be glorified so everything we're saying here becomes irrelevant.

You bring up a very interesting concept.

Jesus made it MORE difficult to to obey the decalogue. IF YOU BUT LOOK UPON A WOMAN WITH LUST YOU HAVE COMMITTED ADULTERY. So what you're saying is that you've brougtht following the SPIRIT OF THE LAW to a Whole new level.

This is great!

I uderstand this to mean that we must be changed INTERNALLY and not just by our outward actions.
So I agree with you 100% if this is what you mean.

If you follow the LAW, you will be judged by the LAW. And the Law is a harsh judge...
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To me we have been sanctified, which to me encompasses being set apart, made/declared Holy.

Hebrews 10:8-10
Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

So to me having been sanctified we walk in the way for which we have been set apart for. To me that's sanctification process.

So to To me in the eyes of God in this life In is eyes on account of Jesus we have been sanctified just as we are justified on account of Jesus.

Either way I think we both agree that actually it's internal change that matters and not the external.

To me I am wary that believers can walk in a way of "I don't do this and don't do that" But neglect the other.

I know you are not like that.
 
FranC said:
Jimbo is doing very well.
You could learn some stuff from him.
Leave him alone to follow what God is teaching him.

God is to teach him, not you since you preach a cheap gospel.
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lol i think shes just the stick in the mud at times but then i remember that i love a good old mud fight but then i dont like it when it sticks so a good soak is needed in water and prayer that maybe aerial will reconise that one should hope for salvation..
 
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Stephen63 said:
Actually, I went back to the post & he was teaching it.

That's a little trick I see on the BDF all the time..... they will make a statement according to their beliefs, & when you call them out on it they will accuse you of starting it, saying we're not supposed to be talking about that.

Deflection & manipulation, pure & simple.
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I went back and got the original post...:

Originally Posted by PennEd View Post

Uh Fran, no condescension intended even slightly.I honestly feel sad reading your thoughts you post. Your post is almost completely about what YOU DO. Don't you realize that it is the Holy Spirit that will do the Sanctifying?
YOUR Salvation is entirely dependent on who JESUS is, and what JESUS has done.

You see, this IS cheap believism.
Did I run from the post? No. I answered it.

Deflect and manipulate is not my style.

SO,

IF I don't have to do anyting, is that cheap grace or not?
Why not?

You mean Jesus came here and died for you and me so WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING?

So, WHO is running the Kingdom of God?

I thought it was YOU and ME.
I thought Jesus came here to TEACH US HOW to be members of the Kingdom of God --- which begins right here on earth.
I do hope everyone here understands this.
 
BillG said:
To me we have been sanctified, which to me encompasses being set apart, made/declared Holy.

Hebrews 10:8-10
Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

So to me having been sanctified we walk in the way for which we have been set apart for. To me that's sanctification process.

So to To me in the eyes of God in this life In is eyes on account of Jesus we have been sanctified just as we are justified on account of Jesus.

Either way I think we both agree that actually it's internal change that matters and not the external.

To me I am wary that believers can walk in a way of "I don't do this and don't do that" But neglect the other.

I know you are not like that.
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This would all be Good if you are worthy coz you have to be drawn to the son by the father first..

This is why there will be many unsaved people in the last days..........coz God will not offer up his son to just about anyone.... or will he is that your take too or is it mine ?
 
Cheapgrace is for those who spit at the lord like they did when he was crucified.. Thats cheap grace for ya not to mention denying works..
 
FranC said:
I went back and got the original post...:

Originally Posted by PennEd View Post

Uh Fran, no condescension intended even slightly.I honestly feel sad reading your thoughts you post. Your post is almost completely about what YOU DO. Don't you realize that it is the Holy Spirit that will do the Sanctifying?
YOUR Salvation is entirely dependent on who JESUS is, and what JESUS has done.

You see, this IS cheap believism.
Did I run from the post? No. I answered it.

Deflect and manipulate is not my style.

SO,

IF I don't have to do anyting, is that cheap grace or not?
Why not?

You mean Jesus came here and died for you and me so WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING?

So, WHO is running the Kingdom of God?

I thought it was YOU and ME.
I thought Jesus came here to TEACH US HOW to be members of the Kingdom of God --- which begins right here on earth.
I do hope everyone here understands this.
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You misunderstood..... I was talking about PennEd, not you.
 
the lord can shine in the desert..

[video=youtube;Gff_5BA4QYM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gff_5BA4QYM[/video]
 
Joseph said that we can be eternaly saved.. and expressed grace as an inward feeling of security..
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I is confused by that "We can be, and feeling of security"

Surely if we can be means that it's not secure.

Given what I know about the Hyper-grace movement I can't see JP saying that.

I actually had a period of time when I was communicating with Paul Ellis via E2R e-mail I never got the impression that you have seemed to have got with what JP said.
 
Stephen63 said:
Cheap grace is for those lazy so-&-so's that rebel from commitment, obedience, & the Lordship of Christ.
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That is not descriptive of a genuine Christian. Typical straw man argument. If you are so committed to the Lordship of Christ then why all the sarcastic, hateful comments?

They want a savior, but not a Lord. Jesus can only come into your heart & save you as a packaged dead.
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Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. Jesus comes into the hearts of genuine believers and saves them, not make believers. Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart (not just in your head) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
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