Not By Works

[JesusLives]

Magenta is younger than the old lady...


Derail.....carry on....

 

[Magenta]

I would like to look like this:



But this is probably closer...

 

[BillG]

Magenta is younger than the old lady...


Derail.....carry on....

I was trying to find a younger lady but couldn't find one that wasn't provocative.

 

[limey410]

Is that the lady from Are you Being Served?

 

[BillG]

Is that the lady from Are you Being Served?

Yep, Mrs Slocombe

 

[Magenta]

​

 

[FranC]

Predestination is based on free will.

Stop trying to think of doctrines of men, ans just start thinking about what I am saying.

Predestination is in the bible , you can not deny it, It is just not the way Calvanists view it..

"whom he foreknew he did predestine to be conformed to the image of God."

God knew who would be saved before time began, and predestined them to salvation based on his will..

what is his will? That whoever believes in the name of the son of God shall not perish but have eternal life.

there is predestination, God knew who would trust him of their own free will, and who would not. And he chose to save those who would trust in him.

God is outside time, he is not relegated to time like we are. the year 3016 is already known to God,, It is 1000 years from uys, we will not even see it..

I agree.
Romans explains it really well:

Romans 8:29-30 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 For those whom He foreknew,
He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called;
and these whom He called, He also justified;
and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[FranC]

Modern? You need to get out some.. The baptist church has been teaching it for decades.. (I started going to the baptist church when I was 5 years old. and the churh taught it as far as I can remember, and that was back in 1970..

The church I am in now has been teaching it for decades.

Again, You need to study,,

When you sin, You are not acting like you are set apart. You are acting like the world acts.. Being set apart (sanctified) is acting like Christ, not the world.

eternal life, your position in christ, is positional sanctification.

Again, Look it up. It is not new..

I get out EG!
You made me laugh.

This "modern" stuff is about 200 years old.
Calvinism is about 500 years old.
Christianity is over 2,000 years old.

Yeah. Some of this fandangled stuff is MODERN!!

 

[FranC]

Glorification means that our position "in christ" and our actual physical life are equal. We have a glorified bi=ody, and we are unable to sin.

I am not sure what the nazarine teaches.. I can understand why you havenot heard of this though. the catholic church would never teach it, Nor would many so called protestants.. Because they do not believe in eternal security, they believe salvation is wishy washy and can be lost.

Now I do have a very good friend who grew up nazarine, he is going to my churhc now, and he understand it,, he also believes in eternal security, so I assumed they did to?? I could be wrong.

Every word means the same in every Church.
It's CONCEPTS that change.

Justification is the same no matter where you go.
Sanctifiction is sthe same no matter where you go.
And Glorification is the same no matter where you go.

We are glorified only after Death, so your explanation is a good one.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Y'all check out my "what does the word repent really mean" thread, ya hear?

 

[FranC]

i can't recall any bible verses where Jesus said "you can lose you salvation, or say fear you can" Jesus rules with love and gives security to those who genuinely believe in him and want to follow him. He doesn't rule with fear or say 3 strikes and your out.

How about
Mathew 7:19
Mathew 13:20-21
Mathew 19:28
Mathew 21:19
Mathew 25:40-46

Jesus gave us many instructions that are to be followed.
He said many times that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,

Jesus rules with Love. God is Love, but God is also JUST.
He demanded obedience in the O.C. and he still demands obedience today.
God does NOT change.

Is the God of the O.T. different from the God of the N.T.?
Or does only the way in which we can serve Him change?

Questions that require some thinking.
An anwer is not necessary.

 

[FranC]

Try again cake taker....verse one does not contain the last clause....and John states clearly that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.....good luck with your works....Jesus talks about you and groups you in the "plenteous in number" that will not make the cut because you never really trusted him to begin with....works for salvation leads to hell!

Are you GOD that you could declare who is saved and who isn't?

Works for salvation leads to hell????

This is interesting. The truth DOES come out.

Works are leading to hell. So you believe that we must NOT WORK in order to get to heaven?

That surely makes no sense at all.

And you should stop judging people. Have you read Mathew 7?
As you judge
So shall YOU be judged.

 

[FranC]

Well I would say it a little bit more like this: "Christ so loved me, and gives me Himself as my New Agape love for others (even unto Himself) that I now possess, that, despite the fact I have to do something that costs me effort (making dinner in this example), I not only still like my husband, but I actually love him, and all the while I have done that which cost me, for then, it is a privilege to serve, not a sacrifice. Making my husband happy is, in reality, making me happy. Now, keep in mind I was referencing your example, for I am not married to any a man, just to keep the record straight. Smile. .

Agreed.
And if you do get married, make sure it's to a girl.
They're a lot more fun.

 

[FranC]

Im sorry to inform you sister, but in this forum the majority will attack for clinging to the true Gospel !! speaking from a years experience, but remember " rejoice for Great is your reward when people insult you, and exclude you for my sake

God bless and Keep you

Thanks for your support.
Just because it's the majority, it does not mean they're right.
jesus said it matters not what goes INTO the mouth, but what comes OUT OF it that defiles a man.
Mathew 15:11

Whoever here fits into this shoe, can wear it.

 

[PeterJens]

Well, actually I have taught it to 5 year olds, and 13 year olds.

FAITH:

Faith is an action --- it's not a feeling.
You get to a supermarket and desire to go in the entrance. There's an escalator you have to take.
You have to GET ON the escalator to go up. You have to have faith that it will take you up.
If you have faith in Jesus, you have to do what He said to do to get you where you want to do.
He said He was preparing a place for you. He said if we're friends we'll do what He said.
I fail to see the problem with this.


BELIEVE:

To believe someone is to have faith in them, it's to know that what they are saying is true, it's to look up to them, to understand what they're saying and to accept it with both your heart and your mind. If we believe someone we want to follow them, we want to know what they teach, we agree to it, we do it.

This is faith, and this is believe.
Either one demands that we follow what Jesus taught.
And stop worrying about why we're doing it.
And stop saying that all we need is faith; this is not so.
We need to FOLLOW Jesus, we need to be disciples, we need to have faith in Him and to believe Him.
Peter, Andrew, John, all the Apostles LEFT EVERYTHING to follow their Lord.
This is how much trust and belief and faith they had in Him.
And we have trouble just saying that we "work" because He instructed us to.

My experience is some find these two ideas hard to accept, yet when you love someone and
call them Lord, why would this be so? Maybe the need for real faith and deeper revelation
which happened to me.

 

[BillG]

How about
Mathew 7:19
Mathew 13:20-21
Mathew 19:28
Mathew 21:19
Mathew 25:40-46

Jesus gave us many instructions that are to be followed.
He said many times that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,

Jesus rules with Love. God is Love, but God is also JUST.
He demanded obedience in the O.C. and he still demands obedience today.
God does NOT change.

Is the God of the O.T. different from the God of the N.T.?
Or does only the way in which we can serve Him change?

Questions that require some thinking.
An anwer is not necessary.

No answer forthcoming

 

[FranC]

The true Gospel of the grace of God in Christ is all about Christ Himself. He is the gospel. He provides His life - He provides His faith, He provides His works.

Receiving Christ is simple and it is done when we hear the message of Him when we believed.

The true message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is a stumbling block to all of us with a works-based and works-righteousness belief system. It is anti-Christ at it's core.

We will do good works as a result of already being saved and His life is manifested if we feed Christians with the proper nutrients of His love and grace so that they can have their minds renewed and walk in His life being manifested in and through them.

The gospels were about Jesus.
A different gospel written to a diferent audience and for a different purpose.

And why were they written?
So we could know who Jesus was.
So we could know why He came to us.
To die? Yes.
What else?
To teach us how to get to where He was going, to prepare a place for us.

Show me some verses where Jesus is NOT talking about how to behave or what to do to get to heaven.
I've listed many that show that HE DID say we were to change and to do.

How about quoting some verses that say the opposite?
In Jesus' own words.... like I did.

 

[FranC]

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple to receive Christ but it cost Him His life and blood shed to set us free.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit ( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past that remains in effect.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Getting saved seems simple because you refuse to read Jesus' words and follow them.

He said to pick up our cross daily if we are to follow Him.
He said to put Him first.

In fact, He made the Law MORE difficult.
If you hate someone (as some here do) you have already murdered that person.
Mathew 5:22

If you just look with lust upon a woman, you have already committed adultery.
Yes. He did make it pretty difficult to be Christian.

So, it's easier to teach cheap grace. Jesus hung on that cross, tortured and bloody and carrying everyone's sin and sins, but let's just keep on talking about how all we have to do is believe. As if we have no part in holding on to our salvation.

 

[FranC]

Just a friendly warning sister, unless you are willing to omit the 4 gospels as correct and eternal truth, which it is, some of the ones on this thread will make it thier goal to convince others you are a attacking and slandering ive had one particular go find un related comments and bring them back as "evidence" and then the rest of the pack will become like a lynch mob with grace torches that demand no condition whether Jesus said so or not. leads to alot of arguing and confusion. i end up putting them on ignore, but its like they are attracted to the truth and make it a mission to stop it before people see through the gog.

No problem.
Jesus words are in the gospels, and some in Acts and the letters and also Revelation.

I like to go by what Jesus said since He's the one who hung on the cross.
Paul did a good job of studying the facts and putting together the book of Romans. (and Others)
He did his best. Of course, if Paul (and the other Writers) knew all the heresies that would grow out of Christianity, and if he knew that Mr. Calvin would be born in 1,500 AD, of course he would have been more careful in what he wrote.
Alas, he thought his word would be understood by all.

So, I'll stick to Jesus, and also the letters when they come up.
Maybe people around here will start acting like real Christians and just discuss things and stop attacking.
Maybe those who slander will stop saying they are being slandered.
Maybe name-calling will cease since we are all brothers in the Lord.

We'll see. I march forward with no fear.
For my Lord is with me.

 

[FranC]

Claiming people "hate" someone is a tactic that is used by people to shut down opposition to a view differing to the person attacking with this tactic.

It belies low self esteem about the position the attacker is trying to defend. Similar to calling someone a racist for saying ANYTHING negative about Islam.

I realize that there are some who have yet to fully embrace the one true Gospel unto Salvation. That God wrapped Himself in human flesh, in the form of Jesus Christ. He was born of a virgin woman, conceived by the Holy Spirit, suffered, was crucified, died, and God raised Him from the grave on the 3rd day, according to the Scriptures.

Confess Jesus as Lord, believe in your heart He rose from the dead and you WILL be saved. We CANNOT ADD ANYTHING to that Gospel for our Salvation. To do so is an insult to god.

Now there is PLENTY we should do after we are saved and filled by the Holy Spirit, but none of that has anything to do with our Salvation.

So some who have yet to have the Holy Spirit reveal the beauty and simplicity of this Gospel need for us to have patience and love with them even when they use tactics such as saying disagreement equates to hatred.

Another poster who does not discuss scripture but decides who is saved and who is not.
Many gods around here...

I refer you also to Mathew 7:1.5