Not By Works

[limey410]

It's your post no. 7318
You said:

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

You're saying that the Holy Spirit KNEW what He was doing when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians.
Then you go on to say that the believers were acting like men in the flesh.
And Paul was telling them NOT TO.

So you're saying we have to behave and be good.

I'm asking you WHAT IF WE'RE NOT.
Is it OK?
Does God not mind?

Can we have the Holy Spirit AND be doing the things the HolySpirit was warning Paul about all at the same time?

I'm saying that if we deny God, we can lose our salvation.
And I believe you just proved it.

If you have God living within you upon salvation, how can you deny Him? That doesn't make any sense. You may be able to live like you are denying Him, but that is an outward appeareance that is something we humans are able to quantify, but He promised to finish the work that He started, so does He give up on that once someone starts to screw up? I don't believe He gives up. In fact He says that He will never leave. So I suppose I am confused by what God tells me, and what you are telling me.

 

[FranC]

Why forget about JIMBO? My question was to him and HE has failed to answer. I am sorry, I do not like your attitude, bossing me around and demanding I answer your question and pretending I have not. That you don't like or don't understand my answer does not mean I have not answered. I don't know why you are being so antagonistic.

Hey Magenta,

Some questions are too diffcult for ya?
You think I'M antagonistic? Interesting.

Here's my post again:

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Originally Posted by FranC View Post

Forget about Jimbo.
My question is VERY relevant.
Why aren't you anwering it?

Here it is again:

Is SINNING different from denying God and walking away from Him?


Simple question.
Requires a simple response...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

How is my question above being "antagonistic"?
Maybe you just can't answer it?

 

[FranC]

If you have God living within you upon salvation, how can you deny Him? That doesn't make any sense. You may be able to live like you are denying Him, but that is an outward appeareance that is something we humans are able to quantify, but He promised to finish the work that He started, so does He give up on that once someone starts to screw up? I don't believe He gives up. In fact He says that He will never leave. So I suppose I am confused by what God tells me, and what you are telling me.

You're right Limey.
God will never leave you.
You have nothing to worry about.

But have you never heard of someone who was a believer and then one day they decided to leave the faith?
I've had this experience personally -- people I know.

Plus, the bible clearly states this possibility. Paul begs us to hold on to our faith, and to continue in the faith.
If you need scripture, it'll have to wait till Tomorrow.
Here's one:

2 Peter 1:5-10

 

[JIMBO43]

i is feeling the hope in this threead once more....... chuckle cookies yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Grace777x70]

It's your post no. 7318
You said:

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

You're saying that the Holy Spirit KNEW what He was doing when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians.
Then you go on to say that the believers were acting like men in the flesh.
And Paul was telling them NOT TO.

So you're saying we have to behave and be good.

I'm asking you WHAT IF WE'RE NOT.
Is it OK?
Does God not mind?

Can we have the Holy Spirit AND be doing the things the HolySpirit was warning Paul about all at the same time?

I'm saying that if we deny God, we can lose our salvation.
And I believe you just proved it.

Sorry Fran...this makes no sense to me at all. I still can't make heads nor tails out of what you are saying.

The point of the post was to show that these Corinthians were Christians living after the flesh and Paul didn't say they were now un-saved nor that they were going to hell because of their carnal thinking. He said they were the complete opposite of what their behavior was showing.

He then told them who they were in Christ so that they would "awake to righteousness and sin not" as He said later on in the letter.

He even said to these same ones that were going to the temple prostitutes, the ones causing divisions, taking each other to court...etc later on in the letter to the Corinthians that "we all " will be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


Paul is saying that even these Christians that were living carnally in it's various forms - that they "all" we going to be changed.

This is NOT an endorsement to live in sinning in any of it's forms from living a homosexual lifestyle to the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

This is to show that we are to preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ so that we can all grow up and live godly in this present world. The understanding of our true identity in Christ is crucial to growing up in Him.

I firmly believe that religion has watered down the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to make it into a behavior modification program instead of revealing it is an exchanged life based on Christ Himself and what He has already done by grace through faith.

We have died on the cross with Christ and now we are alive to God in Christ - we are a new creation in Him - joined as one spirit with Him. Behold all things are new.

 

[limey410]

Sorry Fran...this makes no sense to me at all. I still can't make heads nor tails out of what you are saying.

The point of the post was to show that these Corinthians were Christians living after the flesh and Paul didn't say they were now un-saved nor that they were going to hell because of their carnal thinking. He said they were the complete opposite of what their behavior was showing.

He then told them who they were in Christ so that they would "awake to righteousness and sin not" as He said later on in the letter.

He even said to these same ones that were going to the temple prostitutes, the ones causing divisions, taking each other to court...etc later on in the letter to the Corinthians that "we all " will be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


Paul is saying that even these Christians that were living carnally in it's various forms - that they "all" we going to be changed.

This is NOT an endorsement to live in sinning in any of it's forms from living a homosexual lifestyle to the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

This is to show that we are to preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ so that we can all grow up and live godly in this present world. The understanding of our true identity in Christ is crucial to growing up in Him.

I firmly believe that religion has watered down the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to make it into a behavior modification program instead of revealing it is an exchanged life based on Christ Himself and what He has already done by grace through faith.

We have died on the cross with Christ and now we are alive to God in Christ - we are a new creation in Him - joined as one spirit with Him. Behold all things are new.

Yes and Amen, but what would it profit the modern church if everyone realised their true freedom?

 

[mailmandan]

What does it explain MMD?

MMD
The false Teachers might return to their vomit,
but much to YOUR chagrin
THEY WERE SAVED BEFORE they returned to their vomit.

Not very comforting is it?

Example of how it explains a lot.

Who said they were saved before? They escaped the pollutions - Strong's #3393 (not the corruption - Strong's #5356 different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which resulted in moral reformation (not regeneration) because there was no heart submission to this knowledge.

Nothing is mentioned about these cleaned up on the outside dogs/pigs (2 Peter 2:20) being saved. Peter did not say that these false teachers escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust and became partakers of the divine nature, as we read in 2 Peter 1:4.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes and Amen, but what would it profit the modern church if everyone realised their true freedom?

It would mean an end to the religion of Christianity. It would mean an end to sin-management business and a growing awareness of the righteousness of God in Christ that is ours.

It would be the death of many of our modern day evangelical religious belief systems. My life changed when I realized that God Himself is not an evangelical even though I considered myself an evangelical from my church upbringing and teachings.

 

[BillG]

Sorry to cut in Bill,
But does Chris here remind you of someone?
Chopper?

Hmm let me think on that.

Hmm yes

 

[BillG]

This is deserving of a reputation but it won't let me give one.

Why have the system if I can't use it as I want to??? (for the mod)

Great Post!! Very well thought out.

Really????

 

[BillG]

Hi Bill,

To explain this a distinction will need to be made between believer and the elect.
- 1. All the Elect are believers
- 2. Not all believers are Elect

What does this mean?

God chooses a people from before the foundation of the earth - those whom He will save. All of these WILL BE saved. For these will never lose their faith in Christ. God knows this IN ADVANCE, for He knows the end from the beginning.

However....

Not all believers are Elect. Some believers will fall away from the faith. Some believers will continue in the faith. These who continue in the faith prove their election. Their salvation is made complete on the final DAY. Those who fall away become apostates (myriad of scriptures supporting this). These who fall away were the primary targets of the false teachers and prophets. God too knows, from the beginning of time, that these would fall away.

We as believers do not know exactly who the Elect are. We know by the fruit whether someone believes or doesn't believe. This is not to say that this cannot change. For what if a false teacher leads someone astray and they lose faith in Christ? That is, after all, the primary purpose of a false teacher. And they exist. You will see backsliding (you know this exists in the church body). That's why all the writers in the NT implore their readers to maintain their faith, fight the good fight of faith, nurture, keep the faith. For this is the area whereby the enemy can gain a foothold.

So coming back to the verse above:

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

There is a DEFINITE possibility that believers could be deceived. Lots of scriptures supporting this. However the writer (Matthew) recording the words of Jesus says that even, if possible, even the elect could be deceived. The words "if possible" actually means that the deception is SO GREAT that even the elect could be swayed. Yet we KNOW that the elect cannot be lost, and hence the words again "if possible". Meaning that its not possible. Its probably one of the most profound statements. Poetic in depth.

2 Peter 1:10New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;



Now read the preceding verses and the one after.


Election and Salvation meet up in perfect harmony on the Day of the Lord.

ok so are you saying that when Jesus said

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

he is actually contradicting himself.

you say All elect are beleivers but not all beleivers are elect.

Sorry but that does not make sense to me.

Jesus said to deceive if possible even the elect.

So if all believers are elect it is not possible for them to be deceived.
If beleivers are not elect then they are not beleivers.

When I say be beleivers I talk about people who have a genuine saving faith and not pew pushers or those that give mental assent only.

 

[BillG]

Hi MMD

I respect you and like your posts, but I cannot go on and on like you guys do. I have WORK to do!!! (JK)

As you know, I really dislike using Greek. Not because I know nothing about it, but because we have to rely on Strong's.
None of us have any initials after our names, so why can't we just use the Language we know?

It seems to me it's enough to talk about what we talk about. There's only one word I like to go to for the Greek:
BELIEVE. It MEANS SO MUCH.....

So. 2 Peter 2:20
I'm sure BillG will also be reading along and this is also for him.
IN CONTEXT. Famous words. Peter is talking about false Teachers. The chapter is called "The Rise of False Teachers"

And my oh my, is OSAS EVER FALSE!!!!

verse 9 tells us that God is able to save the godly from temptation.
verse 13 and 14 is speaking about ungodly persons who entice unstable souls
verse 19 these false Teachers promise the unstable souls freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption.
verse 20 for if AFTER they have escaped the defilement of the world by the knowledge of our Lord and SAvior Jesus Christ

AFTER means something came before.
BEFORE they had escaped the defilement of the world
By the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior

Joseph did not KNOW Mary till after Jesus was born.
You know Greek, what does KNOW mean in the Greek???
It is an INTIMATE knowledge. A salvific knowledge.

Now what happens?
They are AGAIN entangled in them --- the defilements of the world --- and are overcome.
They're overcome --- they give in to the defilement.
Thanks for looking up in Strongs what defilement means -- I kind of knew it already.

SO
They (I don't care who) were LOST
They became SAVED
Then they were LOST again


It's very plain to see.
But speak about twisting scripture...
Some are expert at this.


One more thing before I go:

ADAM

He was born again. I think so, What say you? He knew God and spoke to Him and walked with Him in the cool of the garden.

Adam disobeyed God. DISOBEYED.

What did God do? Did he tell him, it's OK. You're good forever.

NO! God banished Adam from the Garden.

SO

Adam was saved
And then he was lost.

God is the same Yesterday, today and Tomorrow.
Or is He???

If He is, then I believe we could still become unsaved.

And the sealing of the Holy Spirit.
I'm tired of talking about this.

Sealings could be undone.
Ask any King who lived in those days.

And anyway, we're sealed for as long as we want to be.

Rev. 3:20 Jesus is knocking at the door. Gently. He's NEVER GOING TO BREAK IT DOWN.

Also, check out Revelation 21:27 and Revelation 22:12

I think Fran the problem is that the Greek words can have many meanings but in our language and the bibles we have in order to make make it easy we use one word.

A simple example is

John 21:15-17
Jesus Restores Peter
So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”
He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep.

The word love that Jesus used was Agape. Which is unconditional love, the love God has for us. The first two times Jesus said Agape.

The word love that Peter used was Phileo. Which is brotherly/friendship love.

The third time asked him do you love me he uses Phileo.

Two words for love but with different meanings and connotations.

So sometimes it is useful to get behind the meaning of the meaning of the Greek word used in order to fully understand it's meaning.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hey Magenta,

Some questions are too diffcult for ya?
You think I'M antagonistic? Interesting.

Here's my post again:

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Originally Posted by FranC View Post

Forget about Jimbo.
My question is VERY relevant.
Why aren't you anwering it?

Here it is again:

Is SINNING different from denying God and walking away from Him?


Simple question.
Requires a simple response...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

How is my question above being "antagonistic"?
Maybe you just can't answer it?

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Anything that fell short of God's will is sin.

God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know EG, I'd like to stay here just to talk to you. You have the basics down good, but sometimes you say things that make me want to say
WHA??

Ok. I agree with you that number 2 is wrong. We cannot know the outcome of our actions. We can only do our best and hope for the best. We can't look into the future. We have to trust that if our action is good, then something good will come of it. This does not necessarily hold true. Sometimes we think we're doing good and we end up doing bad. It's life. This isn't a philosophy class so we're good.

I'd love it if you could get it out of your head that we can't say we're doing a good deed because it's pride.
Let's break this down a minute so there's no misunderstanding.

Let's take Mathew 6:1
Jesus is saying not to practice our righteousness before men so that we can be noticed by them.

But in Mathew 5:16 Jesus is telling us to let our light so shine before men so that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven.

I think this is what you're alluding to when you say that in your mind a good work is something you do for someone else.
Of corse this is what a good work is. If I want the last piece of chocolate and my husband wants the last piece of chocolate, he should get it.

But why do you speak of saying this as if it's pride?
Jesus said to let our light shine before men. For instance, if I go to Church every Sunday, what would be wrong if I said this to my neighbor? Is it pride? Or is it me witnessing to him?

If I tell someone I'm a believer (which is how it's said here) and THEN I tell them I volunteer for something or other... is this good or is it pride?

Do you think I'm right?

When a pharisee did a good deed, Do you think it was because he was doing a good work. or a self righteous deed? And remember, He did it because God said to do it, So in his mind, it was a moral good deed.

One thing I have learned, is that when I got out of being "Churched" with religion. Things started making alot more sense.

So yes, We can do a good deed, And not in the right mental frame of mind, and it not be a good deed, even if we do it because we think it is a good deed. People do it all the time..

 

[BillG]

Hi Bill,

To explain this a distinction will need to be made between believer and the elect.
- 1. All the Elect are believers
- 2. Not all believers are Elect

What does this mean?

God chooses a people from before the foundation of the earth - those whom He will save. All of these WILL BE saved. For these will never lose their faith in Christ. God knows this IN ADVANCE, for He knows the end from the beginning.

However....

Not all believers are Elect. Some believers will fall away from the faith. Some believers will continue in the faith. These who continue in the faith prove their election. Their salvation is made complete on the final DAY. Those who fall away become apostates (myriad of scriptures supporting this). These who fall away were the primary targets of the false teachers and prophets. God too knows, from the beginning of time, that these would fall away.

We as believers do not know exactly who the Elect are. We know by the fruit whether someone believes or doesn't believe. This is not to say that this cannot change. For what if a false teacher leads someone astray and they lose faith in Christ? That is, after all, the primary purpose of a false teacher. And they exist. You will see backsliding (you know this exists in the church body). That's why all the writers in the NT implore their readers to maintain their faith, fight the good fight of faith, nurture, keep the faith. For this is the area whereby the enemy can gain a foothold.

So coming back to the verse above:

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

There is a DEFINITE possibility that believers could be deceived. Lots of scriptures supporting this. However the writer (Matthew) recording the words of Jesus says that even, if possible, even the elect could be deceived. The words "if possible" actually means that the deception is SO GREAT that even the elect could be swayed. Yet we KNOW that the elect cannot be lost, and hence the words again "if possible". Meaning that its not possible. Its probably one of the most profound statements. Poetic in depth.

2 Peter 1:10New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;



Now read the preceding verses and the one after.


Election and Salvation meet up in perfect harmony on the Day of the Lord.

Thanks for responding in the way you have.

I think we would both agree that you have a myriad of scripture to support your belief and me the same.
You know and read the bible just as I do. When we both look bible study notes they normally say, some interpret this to mean this and then reference bible verses to support that and vice versa.

At the end of the day one of us is right and the other is wrong.

One day we will both stand before God and will have to answer for our words we have spoken to each other and what we have built on and what we have done and what we have not done.

I believe genuine believers who go astray god will bring them back, I get the impression you do not believe that.

One day we will find out

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG

This gets into predestination.

Do you believe that you have a free will or do you believe that God plans every move you make?

Trust me EG, I've heard of predestination. You got it a little mixed up in your post.
First you say you believe in free will, then you say you don't.
Could you answer my question?

Predestination is based on free will.

Stop trying to think of doctrines of men, ans just start thinking about what I am saying.

Predestination is in the bible , you can not deny it, It is just not the way Calvanists view it..

"whom he foreknew he did predestine to be conformed to the image of God."

God knew who would be saved before time began, and predestined them to salvation based on his will..

what is his will? That whoever believes in the name of the son of God shall not perish but have eternal life.

there is predestination, God knew who would trust him of their own free will, and who would not. And he chose to save those who would trust in him.

God is outside time, he is not relegated to time like we are. the year 3016 is already known to God,, It is 1000 years from uys, we will not even see it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG
You're gonna make me crazy!!!

First of all I KNOW that I can know I have eternal life.

Fran, your driving me crazy,

How can yu know you HAVE ETERNAL life, if you are not even sure you will get to heaven? The fact you think you are even able to lose eternal life, proves you do not KNOW YOU have eternal life. at best you can THINK you have it, but you can not know.

Me, I KNOW I HAVE IT, thats why I am secure in Christ.

I was saying that based on your belief of God acting within time, that you WOULD NOT KNOW. See?
Anyway, forget it because the Whole premise is not right.

Gods ways are not our ways, The first thing you have to do is realize, God is not man,, God does not have to change time, Because what will happen 100 years from now he already knows. And it will not change..

Second, listen to me...

If I believe I could become lost, then I could be secure in my salvation.

It's the OSAS doctrine that does not allow you to be secure.

There you go again, If you believe you could be lost, Then you are lying if you think you are secure in your salvation. Because there is NO WAY you can be secure knowing that it could be lost.

If you want to discuss this, I'm willing, but give a sign because I really need to go to a different thread.

Think about it...
OSAS says that if I don't believe anymore, it means I was never saved to begin with.

No, OSAS says you that if you are faithless, He is faithful, He cannot deny himself. OSAS says God is omniscient, He knew me before I was even born, and everything about me, He knows my heart, He knows if I am serious about him, or just playing a game.

OSAS says we can not fool God. That when God says i give you eternal life he means it, When he says you will never die, He means it.. It is not a game to him,

If you want to discuss it more thats fine, if you wan tot leave thats fine, I just pray you start to try to see what I am saying from my perspective, and try to dim the perspective you have been taught.. just for awhile. And if you can;t see it, thats fine..

SO HOW COULD I KNOW I'M REALLY SAVED AND WON'T BE LOST SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE?

Because God said you wil never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, Have eternal life, Past from death to life, been born again, of incoruptable seed (it will never fail) sealed by his spirit. Given ALL things he has,, Made a child of God. and an heir with christ. (I can go on and on and on of the promises God made to all who trust him.

God promised you, Just believe it, Have faith in it, and trust in it.. You will never fear about salvation again. Because God keeps his promises.

Instead, MY (and the biblical) belief is that salvation CAN be lost. That means it's up to ME to decide to keep it.
So, as long as I KEEP IT, I know I'm saved and am secure.

Think about it.

Then there is no way you can be secure of your salvation, No way you can KNOW YOU HAVE eternal life.. About the best you can do is think you may have conditional life, But you have to walk in fear it can be lost (even if you deny it, because you have hardened your heart to the fear which comes with non security in christ.

And your right, You have to depend on self.. That means your not depending on God.

Why that does not scare you, I can not answer.. Just say I am amazed.

 

[BillG]

When a pharisee did a good deed, Do you think it was because he was doing a good work. or a self righteous deed? And remember, He did it because God said to do it, So in his mind, it was a moral good deed.

One thing I have learned, is that when I got out of being "Churched" with religion. Things started making alot more sense.

So yes, We can do a good deed, And not in the right mental frame of mind, and it not be a good deed, even if we do it because we think it is a good deed. People do it all the time..

Oh for the day of a church like that in the New Testsment.
Even Paul and Peter had a falling out with regard to the gospel of Jesus yet God worked in them. The gospel of Jesus is for all.

Paul said

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Peter says

2 Peter 3:14-16
Be Steadfast
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

He doesn't say Paul is wrong with regards to Romans 10;9-10.

One would have thought if Paul was lieing then he would have called him out as one being untaught and unstable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've heard of a lot of things. This positional stuff is modern. When I really want to know about something I go way back to the early Church fathers. They knew John the Apostle, they knew people who knew the Apostles, who knew Paul and Peter. I think they know the best. Stuff we made up in the last 200 years doesn't interest me too much. It just confuses things, as is evident from these threads. I also trust theologians, and, of course, the bible - which is easy to understand if read with an open mind and not pre-conceieved doctrine.

Modern? You need to get out some.. The baptist church has been teaching it for decades.. (I started going to the baptist church when I was 5 years old. and the churh taught it as far as I can remember, and that was back in 1970..

The church I am in now has been teaching it for decades.

Again, You need to study,,

When you sin, You are not acting like you are set apart. You are acting like the world acts.. Being set apart (sanctified) is acting like Christ, not the world.

eternal life, your position in christ, is positional sanctification.

Again, Look it up. It is not new..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG

Two things:

1. What does glorificaton mean to you?


2. I went to a Nazarene Church for about 10 years.
Right now, no Church --- not because I woudn't want to, long story.

I grew up Catholic and taught in that Church. I know Catholic doctrine well and I know Protestant doctrine well.
I think the Nazarene Church is a very pure and simple Church. I don't know if it's still like that. I live far away now.
What Church do you attend?

Glorification means that our position "in christ" and our actual physical life are equal. We have a glorified bi=ody, and we are unable to sin.

I am not sure what the nazarine teaches.. I can understand why you havenot heard of this though. the catholic church would never teach it, Nor would many so called protestants.. Because they do not believe in eternal security, they believe salvation is wishy washy and can be lost.

Now I do have a very good friend who grew up nazarine, he is going to my churhc now, and he understand it,, he also believes in eternal security, so I assumed they did to?? I could be wrong.