Not By Works

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blessedjohn80 said:
We are called to follow Christ and it is the direct result of the innocent blood of Jesus.

Jesus instituted the Communion for the purpose of renewing our minds to the truth.
The truth is His complete work of salvation!



That's right, through us, not from us. All that is good does not come from us.
Everything good comes from God because He is the source of everything good.



I don't understand where you are going with this.




Jesus tells me that we must receive His finished work daily and live, to trust God and Jesus, and to fear not.

Jesus is a good shepherd and I place my trust in the good shepherd that He will lead me not to evil but to safety.

Is it really difficult to answer a simple question plainly?

The good works that you do, do they come from you or from God?
Click to expand...

Good works are those works God intended us to do.
All the works we do are us doing them. As we are Christs
body, these works are Christs works through us.

The complexity is the idea a work we do is not us. We can do something
on behalf of God, but it is still us doing them. So a work cannot be us or God,
we are not God. It is your question that is odd.
 
Good works, for me are works done in love towards another.
God inspires them all, so He is the source, amen
 
Doing Christian type work does not necessarily mean we are serving Christ. One can have different purposes which originate from our flesh and not from our spirit from where we are to walk by.

How all this gets sorted out is up to the Lord to decide and all work will be tested by fire to see what it was really made of. Will it be wood, stubble or hay - which is from our flesh doing these works - or will it result in gold, silver and precious gems - which is of God and this originates from our spirit working "with" the Lord and through His grace working in and through us.

There is a true work "of" the Lord and then there is human self-effort doing "things".

An example of this is - hearing a sermon on missions and feeling guilty that you are not "doing this" and so "we decide" to go to a place. The Holy Spirit is not sending us out as we can see in Paul's life in Acts. 13:4

1 Corinthians 15:58 (NASB)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.


We don't "do things" and ask God to bless it - we are sent by God and He blesses His work. We can "built things" in our own human self-effort but unless the Lord build it - we can labor in vain.

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

Paul said that it wasn't him doing the work of the Lord but the grace of God in him enabling him to work and the work he did was abundant.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
 
Last edited:
Amen! And God goes even further in this:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

 
blessedjohn80 said:
Our works?
Does your breathing then come from you?

Just how did Adam came to life?
Who created everything?

If in heaven who then is Worthy?
Is it you and Christ?

No it is only Christ.

Only Jesus name is above all names.

"For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…"

"Does He get the blame for our sins?"

Have you not heard of the cross?

Don't be too focused on yourselves and forget what Jesus did.
Click to expand...

I find it very difficult to discuss anything with anyone here except for Mailmandan and Grace777.

Before I leave:
Genesis
GOD made everything, not us.

YOU do works for GOD.
GOD does not do works for you.
GOD did the only work HE needs to do for you.

The rest is up to you.

Blessings
 
Grace777x70 said:
Doing Christian type work does not necessarily mean we are serving Christ. One can have different purposes which originate from our flesh and not from our spirit from where we are to walk by.

How all this gets sorted out is up to the Lord to decide and all work will be tested by fire to see what it was really made of. Will it be wood, stubble or hay - which is from our flesh doing these works - or will it result in gold, silver and precious gems - which is of God and this originates from our spirit working "with" the Lord and through His grace working in and through us.

There is a true work "of" the Lord and then there is human self-effort doing "things".

An example of this is - hearing a sermon on missions and feeling guilty that you are not "doing this" and so "we decide" to go to a place. The Holy Spirit is not sending us out as we can see in Paul's life in Acts. 13:4

1 Corinthians 15:58 (NASB)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.


We don't "do things" and ask God to bless it - we are sent by God and He blesses His work. We can "built things" in our own human self-effort but unless the Lord build it - we can labor in vain.

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

Paul said that it wasn't him doing the work of the Lord but the grace of God in him enabling him to work and the work he did was abundant.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
Click to expand...

Yes Grace. The grace of God and our Paraclete does help us to do all works.
I know what you mean about doing missionary work. That is a MISSION. We must be called to do a mission, whatever that mission may be - it could be teaching children, it could be running a Christian book store with no pay, it could be a lot of things.

I do separate this from works. Once we are saved and following Jesus, I feel that EVERYTHING we do is for God.
NOT if we're getting mad at our neighbor!

But every good thing we do comes from the power of God within us. This is different than saying that it's God that does the good works for us.

Theologically this would be incorrect. It's kind of like having free will. We MUST NECESSARILY have free will. If we don't, then GOD is responsible for our sins and not us.

If we're going to say that God does our good works, which it seems to me is what is being said (I may have misunderstood but some here are willing to attack but not to discuss - not very Christianly I might add)

THEN we MUST NECESSARILY also say that those who do NOT do good works and are saved do not do them due to a fault of God.

If we want to say this, then we must say that we are not responsible for anything --- neither our good works or our bad or non-works.

Also, some here say that it's pride that let's us say we do good works.
NO. It's only pride if we go around bragging about what we do every day.

I like what St. Francis said way back in 1,200 AD.

ALWAYS witness,
and only when absolutely necessary,
USE WORDS.

In other words, our whole life should be a witness. It's GOOD if we say that we love God and serve Him and then do good works. People might just wonder how it is that we're different.

We're SUPPOSED to be different.
 
FranC said:
I find it very difficult to discuss anything with anyone here except for Mailmandan and Grace777.

Before I leave:
Genesis
GOD made everything, not us.

YOU do works for GOD.
GOD does not do works for you.
GOD did the only work HE needs to do for you.

The rest is up to you.

Blessings
Click to expand...

Again, the cross.
It all points to the cross.

The rest is not up to me but Jesus finished it all.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[a] says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

When God starts something, rest assured, He will finish it.

" For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."


God bless you
 
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dcontroversal said:
New American Standard Bible
For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

King James Bible
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Click to expand...

Hi Dcon

I'm not sure you mean the above for me.
It would seem so from the verse you quote.

It does not mean that God does our work for us.
If you mean it for me, I'll be happy to get into it and go through it with you.
If the discussion is going to turn nasty, then forget it.

(the verse just before that one is that we should work out our salvation).
Philippians 2:12-13
 
FranC said:
Yes Grace. The grace of God and our Paraclete does help us to do all works.
I know what you mean about doing missionary work. That is a MISSION. We must be called to do a mission, whatever that mission may be - it could be teaching children, it could be running a Christian book store with no pay, it could be a lot of things.

I do separate this from works. Once we are saved and following Jesus, I feel that EVERYTHING we do is for God.
NOT if we're getting mad at our neighbor!

But every good thing we do comes from the power of God within us. This is different than saying that it's God that does the good works for us.

Theologically this would be incorrect. It's kind of like having free will. We MUST NECESSARILY have free will. If we don't, then GOD is responsible for our sins and not us.

If we're going to say that God does our good works, which it seems to me is what is being said (I may have misunderstood but some here are willing to attack but not to discuss - not very Christianly I might add)

THEN we MUST NECESSARILY also say that those who do NOT do good works and are saved do not do them due to a fault of God.

If we want to say this, then we must say that we are not responsible for anything --- neither our good works or our bad or non-works.

Also, some here say that it's pride that let's us say we do good works.
NO. It's only pride if we go around bragging about what we do every day.

I like what St. Francis said way back in 1,200 AD.

ALWAYS witness,
and only when absolutely necessary,
USE WORDS.

In other words, our whole life should be a witness. It's GOOD if we say that we love God and serve Him and then do good works. People might just wonder how it is that we're different.

We're SUPPOSED to be different.
Click to expand...

I think there is a sort of a problem and that's defining what one considers good works.
I asked that question a while back.

Some would say that good works are not sinning.
Some say loving your neighbour.

God does not do our good works but rather he uses us to do his good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

To me it is the Holy Spirit working in us to conform to the image of Christ and in doing so people will see the light of Jesus in us.
Hopefully this would have them asking about Jesus.

Works are not to glorify us, not to impress our father, not to earn our salvation.

They are an outworking of the inward change as a result of genuine faith in Jesus.
 
FranC said:
But every good thing we do comes from the power of God within us.
Click to expand...

That's true. Because God is the source of all good things.

FranC said:
This is different than saying that it's God that does the good works for us.
Click to expand...

How is it different, if without God we can't do anything?

FranC said:
Theologically this would be incorrect. It's kind of like having free will. We MUST NECESSARILY have free will. If we don't, then GOD is responsible for our sins and not us.
Click to expand...

God cannot sin because God cannot lie.
God is absolute truth and absolute life.

Having free will does not give you the ability to create anything good.
"So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."

God's sovereignty does not end in our free will, if not then it would mean our free will is greater than God.
Man would be greater than God able to hold on to God and let go at will.
 
Can anyone here able to hold on to God at will?
God who created this seemingly infinite universe and all its complexities?

Through faith we can hold on to God maybe, but then who gave us that faith in the first place?

No matter which way we spin it, it will still all point to Jesus.
Because everything was and is created for Him.

Only Jesus is worthy.

Only Jesus as a man can represent us.
The only man to have pure innocent blood running through His veins.

Do we have pure innocent blood running through our veins?
Does our good works qualify even if it comes from guilty blood?

No it won't and we turn again to Jesus.
It all goes back to Jesus.
 
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