Not By Works

[Magenta]

Scripture says slavery is the result of fear of death.

That means slavery to sin is the result of fear of death.

 

[BillG]

Sin is caused by us because we are hurt, alone and want revenge, anything to get away
from the prison of life and its constraints. We loose the ability to see the harm we do, we
just lash out, destroy to make ourselves a place.

Jesus is the solution that speaks to our hearts, that heals the hurts, that calms the sea,
that stops the cause of our sin.

So why would sin still be an issue if the cross meets your heart? Why is there a struggle
if you are one with Christ, real communion, real understanding of what love is.

Years ago I would not have been so strident about these realities, but now it is my solemn
conviction. So to compromise with sin is to deny Christ in your heart and to justify the
need to continue to hurt others and have revenge.

So an unbelieving heart, one who does not open up and submit to Christs healing, where
honesty and the light does not shine, resides and continues in sin.

I know why you are as you are, and why you hold to what you hold to.
But Christ has so much more to offer you. This is why the cross is our place of healing.

We are hurt because we have been sinned against which causes the act of wanting revenge.

Jesus when hanging on the cross was hurt but he did not seek revenge.
He even prayed for those who were crucifying him.
Not himself but for those who did not know what they were doing.

You don't need to preach to me about about the cross being our place of healing and that Christ as so much to offer me.

As a young man aged 14 I was kicked out by my mother. Was fostered by a Christian couple. Spent the next 4 years fighting off the sexual abuse my foster dad tried every night, 1460 days.

You have no idea as to why am I am and what I am.

I do not compromise sin and I am sure others who disagree with you would say the same.

 

[Magenta]

That means sin is the result of fear of death. I feel I have to spell it out to that extent LOL. Because sometimes even the most obvious things are overlooked and minimized to an extent it is as if some people are saying it does not matter, or means something else.

 

[BillG]

Have you ever played slagging yourself off? You put all your worst traits and laugh at
who you are? It is a humbling experience but quite therapeutic.

Really?

Yes i I hate myself off, I hate my worse traits and I don't laugh at what I am.
Where does this come from.

50/50 answer. God or Satan? I will flip my coin and say it ain't Satan.

Humility? What is it.

Its saying to God, I need you, I need you to work in me, without you I am nothing. Thank you for saving me and working in me.

Anything other than that is PRIDE

 

[PeterJens]

We are hurt because we have been sinned against which causes the act of wanting revenge.

Jesus when hanging on the cross was hurt but he did not seek revenge.
He even prayed for those who were crucifying him.
Not himself but for those who did not know what they were doing.

You don't need to preach to me about about the cross being our place of healing and that Christ as so much to offer me.

As a young man aged 14 I was kicked out by my mother. Was fostered by a Christian couple. Spent the next 4 years fighting off the sexual abuse my foster dad tried every night, 1460 days.

You have no idea as to why am I am and what I am.

I do not compromise sin and I am sure others who disagree with you would say the same.

Well if you do not compromise with sin you walk righteously. Amen.
So where is the disagreement. If you know love in your heart, which it appears you
do, and the healing He has given you, then you know His resurrection life.

I am just declaring this is scripture, but it sounds like you already know it, but
have not put the words around it yet. Amen, Halleluyah brother.

 

[BillG]

Well if you do not compromise with sin you walk righteously. Amen.
So where is the disagreement. If you know love in your heart, which it appears you
do, and the healing He has given you, then you know His resurrection life.

I am just declaring this is scripture, but it sounds like you already know it, but
have not put the words around it yet. Amen, Halleluyah brother.

If I didnt know his love in my heart and his healing in my even though I seek is so badly does that mean I don't know his resurrection life.

Even if I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again for my sin.

Even though I don't get why?

 

[PeterJens]

If I didnt know his love in my heart and his healing in my even though I seek is so badly does that mean I don't know his resurrection life.

Even if I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again for my sin.

Even though I don't get why?

Brother, the Lord has healed and brought you a long way.
All I have shared is one issue. In my walk I wondered what is holy, what is pure, what
is righteous? Why if Paul talks about the churches being holy, about elders living blameless
lives, how does this match with our experience?

All we know is where we have got to, not if there is a bottom or a floor, and this is it.
So it struck me, maybe I have finally seen healing and been straightened out, and know
how to love. I saw a few months ago I am to carry hurts inflicted by others and say Amen,
God bless, I forgive you, to carry their sin and love them back as Jesus did for me.

Why? Because I am full of the Holy Spirit and His healing, and I know His fellowship and
vast acceptance. I am poured out and remade, a sacrificial offering of praise.
How could this be? I used to defend hurts, want protection, need nuturing and time off.
Maybe at a deeper level the Lord had brought me to a new place.

I could now see an end to the pain and the fear, the anguish and the taument, the
separation and the isolation. So I have been asking these questions, and seeing answers
I never thought possible and scripture speaking to me in new ways.

So I hope this helps, and I can be an encouragement to you. The Lord loves us and wants
us to be one with Him. What a mind boggling offer! It used to be so far from me, I could
not even begin to approach it. I now am a little closer. God bless.

 

[blue_ladybug]

The churches are far from holy, and elders/pastors do NOT all live holy lives. Sorry, but that's the hard truth.

 

[PeterJens]

The churches are far from holy, and elders/pastors do NOT all live holy lives. Sorry, but that's the hard truth.

So why does Paul call them Holy and the brothers and sisters in Christ God Holy people.
Elders are called to be people who lead a blameless life.

So this is scriptures view, how do you square this with your judgement of churches?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hmmm, well let's begin with the catholic church. The Pope and several within the church are pedophiles. Same with other churches as well. And what about some of the pastors who commit adultery, or view porn? That ain't living a holy life, IMO..

So why does Paul call them Holy and the brothers and sisters in Christ God Holy people.
Elders are called to be people who lead a blameless life.

So this is scriptures view, how do you square this with your judgement of churches?

 

[PeterJens]

Hmmm, well let's begin with the catholic church. The Pope and several within the church are pedophiles. Same with other churches as well. And what about some of the pastors who commit adultery, or view porn? That ain't living a holy life, IMO..

So you have just judged all churches in the world as being not Holy.
If Paul can say this about churches he knew, I believe there are some
who are like the churches he knew.

You obviously believe you know better than Paul.

 

[blue_ladybug]

NO, I said "other churches".. If I was referring to ALL churches, I would have said ALL churches. And obviously, your assumptions are incorrect. I DON'T know better than Paul. Or anyone else for that matter. Now please stop thinking you know what I'm saying, when you clearly don't.. It only makes you look foolish..

So you have just judged all churches in the world as being not Holy.
If Paul can say this about churches he knew, I believe there are some
who are like the churches he knew.

You obviously believe you know better than Paul.

 

[dcontroversal]

NO, I said "other churches".. If I was referring to ALL churches, I would have said ALL churches. And obviously, your assumptions are incorrect. I DON'T know better than Paul. Or anyone else for that matter. Now please stop thinking you know what I'm saying, when you clearly don't.. It only makes you look foolish..

Par for the course with him....loves to embellish what one says to make his own invalid points....

 

[dcontroversal]

How many good works have the workers for done today? ANY that surpass the righteousness and work of Christ?...........if not--->still not getting you saved or keeping you saved......!

Oh that's right.....nor will they EVER....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

Believe starts with a B not a W....as in works!

 

[dcontroversal]

Those who sing and love the song AMAZING GRACE understand mercy, grace and faith that saves found in the completed work of Christ and his shed blood....the righteous for the unrighteous....amen...

NOW the "workers for" have their own song.....goes something like this...

AMAZING WORKS how hard the toil
That did not save a wretch like me
I once was LOST and still not found
Because I trusted not in thee

YEAH I KNOW..........

 

[fredoheaven]

I'm not sure what your stance is but either these verses are directed to believers or they are not. It's simple if they are then its obviously a logical and wise assumption to say falling away and apostasy is possible in a believer.

Especially since Faith is a faith to faith action we trust in God unto the day of judgment. We are to hold onto faith.

Thank you but it seems it’s true you are not sure on this discussion. I was just giving my impression because based on the pattern you are posting sometimes you affirmed then retracts but that was just my observation. But going to the topic or discussion, I disagree with the falling away of the real believers. The passage of 1 Timothy 4 deals with the false teachers. So, how can a false teacher lost salvation when they don’t have salvation? Yes, false teachers know the word of God but they don’t’ have the God of the word. They may perhaps see the light but they don’t have the life.

You said “assumption” so basically that’s not the truth. The bible is of course is clear and nothing is said on losing salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

2 Peter 3:14-18Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Conclusion

14 Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found at peace with Him without spot or blemish. 15 Also, regard the patience of our Lord as an opportunity for salvation, just as our dear brother Paul has written to you according to the wisdom given to him. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

This same very thing is happening now in the church as to the same reason why Peter was having to write and warn believers. Warning us that people are here trying to twist Pauls teachings to promote a walkless faith and the OSAS doctrine.

Ho,ho, did Peter is saying in the context. Walk less faith and OSAS doctrine?

The passage you brought out is for the false teachers wresting the scriptures. These were untaught and unstable so they twist using scriptures to fit their belief and nothing is said of losing salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.[a] Amen.

Keep in mind Peter is speaking to believers. Be on guard why if we are eternally secured? Led away from what if we are secured? Fall from your own stability? Why do we need to grow if we have nothing to grow into? Maybe the growth helps us be on guard from being led away.

No problem with the passage you brought out. Are Christians warn concerning the false teachers? A big YES for you! Peter is speaking of the importance of growing of the saint and the presence of false teachers make new believers doesn’t grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Their aim is led them away from their established position in Christ. So the passage has nothing to do with losing salvation. It is a warning to believers so that their faith grow and become matured.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hebrews 10Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

The Perfect Sacrifice

10 Since the law has only a shadow of the good things to come, and not the actual form of those realities, it can never perfect the worshipers by the same sacrifices they continually offer year after year. 2 Otherwise, wouldn’t they have stopped being offered, since the worshipers, once purified, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in the sacrifices, there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, as He was coming into the world, He said:
You did not want sacrifice and offering,
but You prepared a body for Me.
6 You did not delight
in whole burnt offerings and sin offerings.
7 Then I said, “See—
it is written about Me
in the volume of the scroll—
I have come to do Your will, God!”[a]

8 After He says above, You did not want or delight in sacrifices and offerings, whole burnt offerings and sin offerings (which are offered according to the law), 9 He then says, See, I have come to do Your will.[b]He takes away the first to establish the second. 10 By this will of God, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all.
11 Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. 12 But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. 13 He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. 15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. For after He says:
16 This is the covenant I will make with them
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws on their hearts
and write them on their minds,

17 He adds:
I will never again remember
their sins and their lawless acts.[c]

18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

This is very beautiful and the hope we have in Christ. This is the only sacrifice that matters and we must remain in the faith of the only sacrifice for sins. That is the only way our sins are forgotten by the mediation of Christ. Walk away from Christ, lose faith then what sacrifice is available?

The problem with the passage you brought has nothing to say about the ”hope” we have in Christ. They speak of the finish works of Christ, It maybe you have to define hope since the Bible sometime speaks of hope as faith. But it seems you are talking of hope to mean another thing so that one has to say “I hope for my salvation” then that’s different.

Does the passage say we need to “remain” in the faith of the only sacrifice for sins? So that, when we “remain” that is the only way our sins are forgotten? Ho Ho,ho, but nothing is said on the passage of such things but deals with the necessity of the sacrificial works of Christ as a lamb perfect offering without blemish or spot, without sin.

Does the passage say, we need to walk away from Christ or we need to lose faith? Umm…I believe, the passage has nothing to say of.

 

[fredoheaven]

John 6:66-68Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

66 From that moment many of His disciples turned back and no longer accompanied Him. 67 Therefore Jesus said to the Twelve, “You don’t want to go away too, do you?”
68 Simon Peter answered, “Lord, who will we go to? You have the words of eternal life.
Hebrews 10 continued

Exhortations to Godliness

19 Therefore, brothers, (very clear the author is speaking to believers if you haven't figured that out) since we have boldness to enter the sanctuary through the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way He has opened for us through the curtain (that is, His flesh), 21 and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. 23 Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works, 25 not staying away from our worship meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

This is our Christian walk, our faith in action is to draw near with a true heart, remain in faith to our original confession without wavering, and to keep encouraging other brothers/sisters to stay connected, stay in love, and to keep building up the church. Because the day is drawing near for everyone to be held for what they did with the time allotted by God to us here on earth.

Well, good enough for the true believers encouraging one another and promoting good works but I fail to seeing ‘remain’ in the faith rather speaks of the “full assurance of faith”