Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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So works and what do they mean.....Instructions = works to..... so the clear instructions of the bible 1 to be baptised in water.... after recieving christ. has anyone followed this commandment yet....
I just herd that baptism is seen as a works salvationist bad doctrin.. ?
Gee wiz how bad do theese faith alone believers get ... to mock the sacrements... absolute scum of satan in my book
I just herd that baptism is seen as a works salvationist bad doctrin.. ?
Gee wiz how bad do theese faith alone believers get ... to mock the sacrements... absolute scum of satan in my book
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
A work is something done to gain or earn something, It can cause a person who does the work to "boast" Because his work gained the reward.
Salvation is not of works. lest anyone should BOAST.
1. Baptism is seen as works salvation ONLY if it is used or taught that it is essential (required) for one to be saved, and not an act done out of gratitude for God saving a person.
2. no one who teaches grace says a person should not get baptized. In fact, we would concede, One who has had the opportunity to be baptized, and did not take the opportunity to obey God would be in sin.
Why is it people always like to ASSUME things which are not true? Do you people actually listen to what people say?
No the church states that being saved is to believe in him.. and to believe that jesus is also the eternaly begotten son of the father.. eternaly carnated in him.. The father whos spirit is holy..
This is what saves you and the church realizes that... its justa handfull of mockers that dont. its you and others who mock not us... we dont see it like that nithers does our church... its you baptists and the rest of the mockers that do..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So you agree, Salvation can not be lost. Because those saved will always do work? Because true faith and true repentence is the basis for works?
V
Veteran
Guest
Thanks, but everyone knows when we were first saved ---
it was by God's grace through our faith and it had nothing to do with our works.
That was when we were first saved.
But, now what are all of the warnings about? Oh yes, rewards! lol
No, after first being saved --- at the very least, works are now required.
And there are a ton of verses about enduring in our faith until we die to receive eternal life.
This ton of verses are the first obvious evidence that salvation is a life-long process.
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I believe that the final reward of walking with your brothers in the new world is worth hoping for .... and that to me is salvation.... being saved comes close but not as close as the icing on the cake.
A bit harsh my friend.
Faith alone believers don't necessarily mock the sacraments as you put it, which was your response to baptism being seen as a work.
What is being said is that baptism does not save a person. In our church we only baptise beleivers, we do not baptise infants/newborns.
As for me I do not believe baptism saves, it is by faith that we are saved.
Now this faith should show it's outworking in our lives.
No its not harsh,,, its the only way to get through....
Satan mocked the word of God from the beginning... If you can mock the word of God then you can also mock the sacrements....
If you mock them both... then is this of him or satan... ?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I agree: water baptism does not save anybody
Jesus baptizeswith the Holy Spirit, which unites us with the body of Christ.
V
Veteran
Guest
I am sorry, but the bold has absolutely nothing to do with first receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit.I agree: water baptism does not save anybody
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit, which unites us with the body of Christ.
It is speaking of receiving a special anointing by Jesus (with the initial evidence of some tongues).
The Holy Spirit baptizes a person into the church (1 Cor 12).
No i was merely asking him if hes been baptised ? and your point is
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
you need to reword your question then, No one would think that is what you were asking.
Seriously my friend you need to take check and think about how you go about your words.
Think about what I said, process what I said and then ask the question
"Have you been baptised?
Do not assume that I haven't been baptised which you have.
FYI yes I have been baptised and in fact I baptise people in my church.
I love seeing people baptised and I think it is a very very important spiritual marker in ones life.
BUT I STILL MAINTAIN BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE A PERSON JESUS DOES.
Just a couple of things I would like to add.
I refused to baptise someone who wanted to be baptised. I wasn't fully sure they had placed their faith in Christ.
I asked him "Have you confessed with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the son of God and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead?
He squirmed and and when I pushed him he said no. I asked him was he in a place to do this he said no.
To me it became apparent that it was just a sacrament.
I know of believers who have not been baptised and when I come alongside them to encourage them to be baptised the reasons they haven't mainly boil down to two things.
The first being a pressure to conform, the pressure to have to stand up and speak in front of a load of people, give a big testimony.
I say to such people "All you need to say is that I am getting baptised because I beleive Jesus is who he says he is, that he rose again and I have placed my faith in him and want to follow him" Nothing more is needed.
The second and this saddens me and angers me
"I still sin and I'm a sinner"
This is as a result of sinless perfectionists who expect people to be perfect in order to be baptised.
Truly shocking to place such a burden on believers.
So I just say "Jesus died for you while you were dead in your sins, he loved you enough to do this, he is not looking for your perfection, only your heart a heart that seeks after him, if you wait until your sinless then you ain't ever gonna be baptised"
Virtullay everyone I have said that to got baptised at the next opportunity.
So I implore you.
Read what is written and think about it, dont shoot from the hip and accuse. Ask and not accuse.
You assumed I wasn't baptised.
You need to think further as well. Look at my examples above concerning baptism
What has that got to do with what I said? Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. If you disagree, take it up with God and His revealed written Word, and perhaps complain to the Living Word of God also