Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
The final reward is for service not salvation.......
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so you aknoledge that there is a final reward..but you dont reconise its salvation even tho ive shown you at least 10 times according to the truth in the bible that it is..

You know dc there a few things we disagree upon but this disagreement is so far from the truth it will lead many to take there salvation for granted even you..

You need to know that by changing peoples minds to suit this doctrin of yours means you have christians following you and the one who thought he could deny God (satan.) to deny this scripture is from the pits of hell.. i really do feal a great loss about this. but theres nothing i can do other than state Gods truth..

1 Peter 1:5Amplified Bible (AMP)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]who are being protected and shielded by the power of God through your faith for salvation that is ready to be revealed [for you] in the last time.
 
[h=1]Nehemiah 6The Message (MSG)[/h] “I’m doing a great work; I can’t come down. Why should the work come to a standstill just so I can come down to see you?”

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Four times they sent this message and four times I gave them my answer.
 
dcontroversal said:
More Pharisee-ical works and obedience that does not bring salvation, nor does is maintain our salvation, nor does it facilitate our salvation, but rather is a false gospel, double cursed and leads to hell.....
Click to expand...

In such a few short words, you condemn a whole theological view without being specific as
not the gospel and dooming people to hell.

Now this is very condemning and divisive. It is divisive because you claim to be a christian
and yet are disowning bible believing people who follow Gods word.

Now people in sin, or preaching compromise on the fundamentals of the faith, ok, but this
is just how you apply faith and trust and follow. Such emphasises have in the past been
colours of the wider spread of evangelical communion. But you wish to break this up.

By what authority do you do this? Is it just by putting words like imputed before righteousness
or love or anything good written about believers, because really they are still unresolved
stinking sinners? Because it strikes me this is exactly what you guys are doing, which is
just divisive heresy. And we know this is so because you desire division and explusion of
brethren from fellowships just based on these views, and not sin or rebellion against the
Lord.

And your scriptures only word by adding to scripture, changing words and meaning,
which again is typical of heretics. Just read the JW bible or mormon bible.

Now it is fine to go off and form your own group, but do not claim you follow the
same theology that is 2,000 years old. It just does not wash. You even use
imputed ideas invented in the reformation.
 
JIMBO43 said:
so you aknoledge that there is a final reward..but you dont reconise its salvation even tho ive shown you at least 10 times according to the truth in the bible that it is..

You know dc there a few things we disagree upon but this disagreement is so far from the truth it will lead many to take there salvation for granted even you..

You need to know that by changing peoples minds to suit this doctrin of yours means you have christians following you and the one who thought he could deny God (satan.) to deny this scripture is from pits the of hell.. i really do feal a great loss about this. but theres nothing i can do other than state Gods truth..

1 Peter 1:5Amplified Bible (AMP)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]who are being protected and shielded by the power of God through your faith for salvation that is ready to be revealed [for you] in the last time.
Click to expand...

Salvation is not the final reward....the reward is based upon works that come after salvation....Not that difficult to understand.....

And you have shown me nothing about salvation....it is a current possession at the moment of belief.....

VERB TENSE and CONTEXT which you fail to acknowledge because it refutes your fallacy show salvation as a present continuing result from a past complete action........

the culmination of our salvation is a glorified body at the end of the age........

RIGHT NOW are we the children of GOD, but it does not yet appear what we shall be.<---wake up to the truth
 
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PeterJens said:
In such a few short words, you condemn a whole theological view without being specific as
not the gospel and dooming people to hell.

Now this is very condemning and divisive. It is divisive because you claim to be a christian
and yet are disowning bible believing people who follow Gods word.

Now people in sin, or preaching compromise on the fundamentals of the faith, ok, but this
is just how you apply faith and trust and follow. Such emphasises have in the past been
colours of the wider spread of evangelical communion. But you wish to break this up.

By what authority do you do this? Is it just by putting words like imputed before righteousness
or love or anything good written about believers, because really they are still unresolved
stinking sinners? Because it strikes me this is exactly what you guys are doing, which is
just divisive heresy. And we know this is so because you desire division and explusion of
brethren from fellowships just based on these views, and not sin or rebellion against the
Lord.

And your scriptures only word by adding to scripture, changing words and meaning,
which again is typical of heretics. Just read the JW bible or mormon bible.

Now it is fine to go off and form your own group, but do not claim you follow the
same theology that is 2,000 years old. It just does not wash. You even use
imputed ideas invented in the reformation.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah.....look pal...any religion that teaches a false works/obedience based salvation is heretical.....the bible is clear...It is not based upon works or religious obedience...it is based upon faith into the finished work of Christ......!

SO.....your last line is as inflammatory as my own post......HC
 
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dcontroversal said:
More Pharisee-ical works and obedience that does not bring salvation, nor does is maintain our salvation, nor does it facilitate our salvation, but rather is a false gospel, double cursed and leads to hell.....

Salvation is based UPON FAITH into the finished work of Christ....NO ONE can OBEY before salvation....the WORD of GOD is spiritual and the NATURAL MAN cannot know, discern or receive the word of GOD for it is foolishness unto him

any work of righteousness is the result of Christ in someone and through someone that has already been saved BY FAITH...
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I often hear works-salvationists attempt to "dissect" works of obedience/good works from the moral aspect of the law and erroneously teach that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. It's still salvation by works no matter how hard they try to sugar coat it.
 
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mailmandan said:
I often hear works-salvationists attempt to "dissect" works of obedience/good works from the moral aspect of the law and erroneously teach that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. It's still salvation by works no matter how hard they try to sugar coat it.
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I hear ya......0ne work or fifty million....works based salvation is false.....end of story.....

Paul called everyone who believes this fools....and bewitched......having begun in FAITH are you now made perfect/complete by the flesh (works)........
 
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DiscipleDave said:
You believe you know the TRUTH, yet do not know that the Disciples were not even Saved, until after the Holy Ghost fell upon them. While they were with Jesus they commited sins, they doubted, they feared, they lacked faith, they did not Truly believe He was the Son of GOD until Jesus revealed Himself to them alive after being crucified. ONLY at that time did they actually believe that Jesus was the Son of God. You do error thinking they were SAVED while they walked with the man, Jesus Christ. They were SAVED when the Believed that Jesus was in TRUTH the Son of God after seeing Him alive from the dead, and the Holy Spirit of God entered into them. This is when they were SAVED and started walking as Jesus walked from that point on.



It speaks volumes to me, those who try to defend sinning. Scriptures speaks volumes about those who think they can't cease from sin, even calling them Cursed Children. Scriptures speaks volumes how to get sin out of your life, how to overcome all sins, and even teaches to get rid of the sin that so easily besets you. It speaks volumes to me all those who continue to live in sin, all the while casing stones at those who claim they don't. God shall judge all.


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
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Well said and may i thank you for leading me to hope for salvation,, you are truly blessed and im so thankfull for your truth from God,, That you have most undoubtingly studied hard and search for truth with an open heart to recieve this knowledge.. to which i can only say im truly grateful for what the lord God can do in peoples lifes,,amen bro and please take my sincere apolagies for me not understanding your knowledge to begin with...
 
I cant tell you the transformation i have expericaned since hoping for salvation from about 3 weeks ago,, i have truly been washed and set free..i feel free as a bird and its just getting better and better.. so much so that i have found strenght to walk away from trouble too..

Thankyou kindly
 
Magenta said:
That would be to call the resurrection salvation, which we know it is not.
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Which i know the ressurection is the day of redemtion for all..............where some will not be judged and recieve there reward.. which is what im hoping for you :)
 
I think that there is a lot of confusion on faith and works means. Let me elaborate:
At the beginning of this thread, it was stated faith, not works grants salvation. Paul also stated:

Faith without works is DEAD.

What he meant was that works is a fundamental part of faith. It isn't the only thing necessary. There is more to it that that! Faith is love and hope that God will deliver us into salvation by what we do. So, in a word, yes, we need faith to be saved. But to obtain faith, we need to show our faith by our works, hoping that God will answer us, guide us, and that what we do here, will be rewarded justly in the next life.
 
kstout6 said:
I think that there is a lot of confusion on faith and works means. Let me elaborate:
At the beginning of this thread, it was stated faith, not works grants salvation. Paul also stated:

Faith without works is DEAD.

What he meant was that works is a fundamental part of faith. It isn't the only thing necessary. There is more to it that that! Faith is love and hope that God will deliver us into salvation by what we do. So, in a word, yes, we need faith to be saved. But to obtain faith, we need to show our faith by our works, hoping that God will answer us, guide us, and that what we do here, will be rewarded justly in the next life.
Click to expand...

James was the one who said that.....and there is no confusion....

Before God Paul said a man is justified by faith void of works
Before MEN James said our faith is seen (justified)by our works

Before GOD<---FAITH
BEFORE MEN<--WORKS

Not difficult at all.....rather simple at the end of the day.....
 
PeterJens said:
In such a few short words, you condemn a whole theological view without being specific as
not the gospel and dooming people to hell.

Now this is very condemning and divisive. It is divisive because you claim to be a christian
and yet are disowning bible believing people who follow Gods word.

Now people in sin, or preaching compromise on the fundamentals of the faith, ok, but this
is just how you apply faith and trust and follow. Such emphasises have in the past been
colours of the wider spread of evangelical communion. But you wish to break this up.

By what authority do you do this? Is it just by putting words like imputed before righteousness
or love or anything good written about believers, because really they are still unresolved
stinking sinners? Because it strikes me this is exactly what you guys are doing, which is
just divisive heresy. And we know this is so because you desire division and explusion of
brethren from fellowships just based on these views, and not sin or rebellion against the
Lord.

And your scriptures only word by adding to scripture, changing words and meaning,
which again is typical of heretics. Just read the JW bible or mormon bible.

Now it is fine to go off and form your own group, but do not claim you follow the
same theology that is 2,000 years old. It just does not wash. You even use
imputed ideas invented in the reformation.
Click to expand...
all ya doing is feeding his mockery... if i was you i would suggest you walk away.. maybe hes not ready for the milk... cause i think he had the meat of the word first...he doesnt understand milk... he mocks it..
 
JIMBO43 said:
Well said and may i thank you for leading me to hope for salvation,, you are truly blessed and im so thankfull for your truth from God,, That you have most undoubtingly studied hard and search for truth with an open heart to recieve this knowledge.. to which i can only say im truly grateful for what the lord God can do in peoples lifes,,amen bro and please take my sincere apolagies for me not understanding your knowledge to begin with...
Click to expand...

Yeah....go read where he said the JESUS will reference him by his CC name and judge us according to this teaching and where he claims to be a prophet ..........

Good luck.....you ever hear of a guy called Sun Myung Moon<----He has followers as well......
 
JIMBO43 said:
all ya doing is feeding his mockery... if i was you i would suggest you walk away.. maybe hes not ready for the milk... cause i think he had the meat of the word first...he doesnt understand milk... he mocks it..
Click to expand...

HAHAHHAHAHHHAHHAHHA this is rich coming from you......
 
dcontroversal said:
James was the one who said that.....and there is no confusion....

Before God Paul said a man is justified by faith void of works
Before MEN James said our faith is seen (justified)by our works

Before GOD<---FAITH
BEFORE MEN<--WORKS

Not difficult at all.....rather simple at the end of the day.....
Click to expand...

Yes once a person connects the right entity as to "whose" faith works in who .

James under the inspiration of God revealed that thought of God, it is in perfect agreement of the words that he put in the mouth of Paul . "We are saved by works"... just not that of our own selves. It was by the work of Christ’s faith, the faith of God by which we are saved according to His labor of love. Not of our own selves lest any man say it was of their own selves. We believe because he gives us His faith to make it possible without it(the faith of Christ) no man could believe God.

Both James and Paul are in perfect agreement.He puts no difference between them , purifying the hearts of both Paul and James by a work of His faith, a labor of His love alone.

What if some do not believe (exercise the faith that does come from hearing God ) will their unbelief (no faith) make the faith of God without effect?
 
HisHolly said:
I just posted this in another... Abraham believed was Counted righteousness then did a work to show or prove his faith... Circumcisions.. You can't throw out works.. they prove your faith
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Circumcision HAHAHAHHA this came way after Abraham had faith...the faith that saved him and justified him...wow.....!
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Amen bro. If you have any sin which was not paid for on the cross. Your doomed forever. because there can be no more forgiveness for that sin.

Without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness.

Christs blood washes us white as snow.. forever. or we are dead in our sin, no in between.
Click to expand...

Amen to this as well......
 
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