Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull said:
People can do these things, and they are dead works. It is not the "WORK" that is in question, it is the reason behind the work..
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Luke 10:25-37 The Parable of the good samaritan On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “WHAT MUST I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: “‘LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘LOVE your neighbor as yourself.’” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A PRIEST happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he PASSED BY ON THE OTHER SIDE. So too, a LEVITE, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and WHEN I RETURN, I will REIMBURSE you for any extra expense you may have.’ “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had MERCY on him.” Jesus told him, “GO AND DO LIKEWISE.”

Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone ADDS anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6 “EVERY WORD OF GOD IS FLAWLESS; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. DO NOT ADD TO HIS WORDS, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”
 
10 The proverbs of Solomon. A wise son maketh a glad father: but a foolish son is the heaviness of his mother.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Treasures of wickedness profit nothing: but righteousness delivereth from death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The Lord will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish: but he casteth away the substance of the wicked.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He that gathereth in summer is a wise son: but he that sleepeth in harvest is a son that causeth shame.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He that walketh uprightly walketh surely: but he that perverteth his ways shall be known.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wise men lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.



[SUP]24 [/SUP]The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]As vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to them that send him.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The way of the Lord is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness. Proverbs 10
 
MadebyHim said:
eternally-gratefull said:
I asked this yesterday got no answer. Maybe someone here will be kind enough to give me an answer?

Can a true believer in Christ NOT have good works?[/

No, just believing is a good work.
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Yes believing God is a work of God that he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure(imputed righteousness) that he requires as He gives us ears to hear (not of our own selves) what the Spirit is saying. Therefore we can believe, seeing he works to make it possible believe to the salvation of our soul .

If the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it. Seeing no man can come to the father unless he gives them a new spirit and new heart that will never die .But will be raised on the last day.The same day as judgment for the unbeliever who will not rise to new spirit life.
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[SUP]8 [/SUP]And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:8-15

Does any body ever consider, not being able to enter the gates being the eternal torment for those that choose disobedience over obedience. The gates being wide open and can't enter to see behind gates. Hearing the wedding feast of the Lamb going on, smelling the food, but can't enter. Wow.

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21:5
 
JIMBO43 said:
This is fantastic hope brother it really is...
thankyou for posting and reminding me this...now for the the true brothers of christ... let your hearts be filled as you march on knowing your saved and your going to do it...... all tho we can do it together or devided ? over a small fact that salvation comes at the end. this is worth praying for as we press on towards that goal...
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Glorification comes at the end. For those who ARE saved.
 
2 Corinthians 6:2

For He says,

“In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.”

I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, NOW is the day of salvation."
 
OSAS relies on the idea of a debt which Christ has met.
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Exactly, which He who performs all things appointed to us, clearly has performed it in whole. He does not perform partial works as the debt being paid.. That is a Catholic idea.
The believer once created from on high can never die or be rejected
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Yes, he does not give us a new spirit and new heart that places us to where Adam and Eve were before they decided to do the pleasure of another voice and their soul died..

It would be like throwing the best swimmer into a raging river that no man could surpass and reach the other side. And along comes the strong man (Christ) who is not limited by the things of this world having rescued that man and then throwing him back into the same ragging river over and over with no hope..

He has given the new creature a new spirit, and new heart that could never die, one that has passed from eternal damnation into eternal spirit life.

1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
All their sin is forgiven and God only sees Christ, so nothing ever needs resolving as far as God in concerned.
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I would think as far as God is concerned, God has resolved it by giving His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own called the shedding of blood .Blood is used throughout the scriptures as a metaphor to represent that not seen, the spirit essence of life. If he has begun that good work of recusing us from our sin he will finish working in us to both will and do His good pleasure to the end.

But then there would be no rebukes of believers in the bible, or sin needing to be repentedof, or a risk of people falling away.
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When those rebukes come to life they are the source that can turn us towards Him then after having been turned we can repent.it is all the work of God,and not of our own selves.

Our walk is dependent on our relationship with the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit. From the time it starts it is the heavenly Kingdom relationship.
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Yes as it has begun with the hearing of the faith of God that works in us it will finish by the same hearing of faith (His faith) .We do not begin with the hearing of faith that turns us towards God so that we then can do the first works (believe God) and them make it about something we could do separate from that hearing. (not of our own selves.)

Although it is a fool that does not believe God in their heart(no faith) Those who have eternal life can do foolish things.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:1

If we would try and make it about the flesh it would show those in Hebrews 6 boat who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, as those who say one demonstration was not enough, so in their hearts they crucify Christ over and over every time they violate the commandments of God.

It can though be left and rejected because its very foundation is love itself which by definition only exists as a result of choice.
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Even those who hate Christ love each other. He chose us, not us choosing Him . His love, the first work of His Spirit is long suffering and therefore God who is Love can be kind ,the second aspect of His love working in us. . Again we love Him because he first worked in us loving us by giving us eternal life.

OSAS also only exists to appease very insecure people who do not understand relationships.
Like a marriage it needs communication and sharing. Without this the relationship dies.
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Yes the love of God does restrain us insecure people giving us His confidence as in if he has begun the good work he will finish it to the very end. If that insecurity was healed in respect to our own selves then we could offer some wonderful work in a hope it would appease the wrath of God, rather then that of Christ who alone did according to His work of faith as a labor of His love.. Christ calls them that work to make his work of faith to no effect , worker sof inquity as those he knows not.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

So rather than teach people about how to grow and be alive in Christ, love and openness it encourages staying as you are, and keeping closed down. Now for a preacher this is a much easier route than facing issue they literally cannot handle.

Preachers preach the word, the word of God being alive as that which cannot return void from the purpose as to why he sends it cannot t return void and somehow or other Christ needs to be sacrificed again and again.
So for many preachers a quick fix doctrine meets the keep the congregation happy and involved and feeling safe.
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It no quick fix .If he has begun the good work in us it will fix all that is necessary by the new spirit which He gives us freely. .Can’t be earned by us, if it is earned by Him. We have that treasure in these bodies of death but it is not of us if it is of God. No man can serve two masters , God and themselves only God who has no form is a good master .

Better things accompany salvation like the actual work ofredemption of our souls and not a jump start places us to where Adam and Eve were before they sinned and died the death of a relationship.. . Crucifying Him over and over would be subjecting His work as not enough, with one demonstration. Some are waiting for Him to appear in the flesh, again and again.

Once is all he promised. Those who look to His flesh again will not be shown it. He calls them the antichrist. The veil is rent , the first century refomation has come.

God who is not a man as us remains without out mother or father beginning of days or end of eternal Spirit life.
 
dcontroversal said:
Christ has done the work....all we have to do is enter into his rest........
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Amen... Christ’s faith, the faith of God that works in us, towards us It is not without all the work needed to appease the wrath of or father in heaven. If it is of Christ’s and not of us towards Him why would we assume it could be of us. Would that not blaspheme the holy name by which we are called, making the faith of God without effect?
 
DiscipleDave said:
If you believe what you say above, you must NOT believe many Holy Inspired Scriptures that are in the Word of God, which plainly teach that all things are possible to that believe. You must have to ignore all the verses which PLAINLY tell us to NOT SIN, You also must believe it is NOT possible to walk as Jesus walked even though Scriptures teaches us to walk as He did. You must also have to believe that Jesus would ask people to do something that YOU say is impossible to do, when He instructed a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" which YOU say is not possible. According to Scriptures Cursed Children also can't cease from sin, they must also believe the exact same thing as you do. How many hundreds of verses plainly teach us to DO exactly what you say is not possible to do? Shall we continue in sin? Apparently YOU think that answer is "YES" because the "NO" answer is impossible to do, is that not correct?

Know you not what self-righteous even means?

i do all things to please Jesus Christ, and because i do that, YOU say i am self-righteous. Have i not over and over and over again, say and teach it is ONLY through Jesus Christ, with His Power and Strength, that i am able to do that? Yes i have, i have never not once given the credit to ME, nor is it in me, to accomplish that. But because i say i no longer continue to obey satan and commit sins, you say i am self-righteous for merely telling you the TRUTH.

Tell me, What sin do you do that you can't cease from mailmandan? Answer. So then if YOU CAN cease from that particular sin, the question then is WHY aren't you ceasing from it? Is it not written that with every temptation JESUS Christ does not allow it to be so strong that YOU can't handle it, and Jesus Christ also always allows a path out of it. YOU teach that it is not possible to ALWAYS look to Jesus for Help when a person is tempted. There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from, you continue to live in those sins, because YOU want to do them. If you learned to HATE them, you would cease from them. But because i say, that through Jesus Christ's Strength and Power i do all things to please Him, people do not believe that, why? Because they are still living in sin, and can;t see the TRUTH because of it.

Anyone who loves to sin, is devoid of the TRUTH. Anyone who knowingly and willingly commits a sin that they know full well is against Jesus Christ and does it anyways, loves to commit that sin, and have altogether denied the Strength and Power of Jesus Christ to help them overcome that temptation. And because i say i no longer continue to live in sin, you say i am self-righteous. God knows the TRUTH.

definition of self righteousness is when one is confident in their OWN righteousness.

Tell me, if YOU mailmandan say "I am righteous through Jesus Christ" Are you then self-righteous? The answer is NO, right? i continue to say the same thing, yet YOU say that is self righteousness. i am not righteous because of anything that i have done, are doing, or will do in the future. i am righteous ONLY because of Jesus, living in me. This is in no way Self-Righteousness.

i do all things to please Jesus Christ, which i am ONLY able to do through the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ living in me. i deny self continuously to NOT deny Christ's Power, Strength, and Path out of the temptation. And because He does this in me, YOU say that is self-righteousness. God Judge me, if i am lying.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
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I don't appreciate your straw man arguments or your slanderous remarks and I have already refuted your false doctrine of sinless perfection in post #157 - http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146196-helmet-hope-salvation-8.html#post2996957
 
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You know....Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness...Paul concluded from this encounter (under inspiration) that a man is justified (rendered legally innocent before God) by faith void of any human merit and or effort (deeds of the law)

Faith and faith alone saves and justifies void of any human merit and or work.......by faith we enter into the rest that Jesus affords all who believe.....!
 
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wsblind said:
And anyone that comes along and say's that His rest means sitting on your butt.

Obviously hasn't entered His rest yet.
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I don't think anyone has said that......faith alone saves dia grace and mercy......

Our faith is seen in our fruit/works.......even 1 (ONE) cup of water in the name of Jesus qualifies as fruit and or works
 
The works Paul was speaking of were religious works, not the works of obedience. Don't let deceivers fool you concerning this matter...Obedience to God is MANDATORY. one is not being saved, nor will be saved, if not complying to the rules of the covenant. The covenant is most assuredly conditional. I don't know what the big deal is anyway.Jesus said His commandments were not grievous, however some must perceive that His commandments are indeed grievous..The conclusion of the matter is trust in God's word and not the imagination of men.............

PS: we are all doing works 24/7, either the works of God or the works of the Devil....Filthy rags and works of the devil (sin) will not allow one to climb back into the kingdom, no hoodies allowed. There is a strict dress code "ie' white robes of worthiness are required.....This will be my only post on the matter,,,,,,,,,, be blessed
 
willybob said:
The works Paul was speaking of were religious works, not the works of obedience. Don't let deceivers fool you concerning this matter...Obedience to God is MANDATORY. one is not being saved, nor will be saved, if not complying to the rules of the covenant. The covenant is most assuredly conditional. I don't know what the big deal is anyway.Jesus said His commandments were not grievous, however some must perceive that His commandments are indeed grievous..The conclusion of the matter is trust in God's word and not the imagination of men.............

PS: we are all doing works 24/7, either the works of God or the works of the Devil....Filthy rags and works of the devil (sin) will not allow one to climb back into the kingdom, no hoodies allowed. There is a strict dress code "ie' white robes of worthiness are required.....This will be my only post on the matter,,,,,,,,,, be blessed
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More Pharisee-ical works and obedience that does not bring salvation, nor does is maintain our salvation, nor does it facilitate our salvation, but rather is a false gospel, double cursed and leads to hell.....

Salvation is based UPON FAITH into the finished work of Christ....NO ONE can OBEY before salvation....the WORD of GOD is spiritual and the NATURAL MAN cannot know, discern or receive the word of GOD for it is foolishness unto him

any work of righteousness is the result of Christ in someone and through someone that has already been saved BY FAITH...
 
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