Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Actually your spirit is made clean and transformed at conversion.... you are talking daily sanctification and not positional sanctification

Not sure if it changes the meaning any to have the clarification but it's nice to know you make a distinction between the two.

 

[Grace777x70]

His statement is one of the most anti-biblical, anti-Christian statements I have ever heard come from a professed believer......Jesus ate with publicans, sinners and whores and had no problem in talking with and or engaging believers....what a hypocritical self serving pompous statement........

Ahhh... Dcon....we just forgive him and move on. The Lord will be faithful to all of us.

As I said though - if our eternal destination is dependent on the "doing of good works" it would be a handy dandy piece of information to know exactly what those good works are.

I mean every one needs to be known and exactly how many because if we leave one out - our loving Father will throw His children which He says He loves dearly in hell and then in the lake of fire.

That is the outcome of "not doing good works in order to remain saved" if we boil it down to it's true essence.

This is of course all religious nonsense.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God that is in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection so that Christians will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him and then His life will manifest in the doing of the good works that He has prepared for us to walk in and this will show to the world the Father's and our Lord's love and grace towards them all.

In this the Lord will be greatly glorified. No flesh shall glory in His presence.

 

[UnderGrace]

Funny preaching the Good News is not on your list?

Here is some scripture, but it does contradict you, unless you argue this was only meant for the immediate audience, in which case there would be no CC since Christianity would have died out.

You were given the Holy Spirit for this purpose

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

​

Romans 12:3-8 NASB
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, 5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; 7if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; 8or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

 

[FranC]

Fran, do not patronize me...I know you cannot stand me, you constantly berate me, undercut me and mouth me even when speaking to others....so......the facts are....You teach a working for salvation that can be lost with no real hope and I believe we are saved eternally by faith and the work of Christ on our behalf....end of story....we are diametrically opposed to each other and will be that way until the Lord comes and we see who is right....I will not bend, you will not bend, we both think the other is wrong based upon our perception of scripture and that will not change....

I have no issue with you as a person and think you are probably a funny nice person....that does not change the fact that I believe your doctrine leads astray and I am sure you think the same of what I stand for........

I don't agree with anyone who believes in eternal security or OSAS, just to clarify.
That's ok.
I enjoy rummaging through the Bible and coming up with stuff.
I've debated with better than you, believe it or not.

Here's the difference.
We use scripture. I could care less about your snappy comments.
We're civil to each other. Just because we disagree, were still brothers in Christ.
We don't call each other names. I only did this with you to show you what it feels like,,,and you don't like it.
We don't talk about other posters as if they aren't around. This is gossiping.
We don't tell the other person they're going to hell by saying they are lost or are in the p!entious group. It's not up to you to know who is saved and who isn't.

I know you know scripture. Stick to that.
Be a nice person.
I know it's tough in many ways to be a soldier and in many ways it's enjoyable.
I respect what you do.
I'd like to respect you for your christianly manner.
I don't hate you.

Wanna get married?

 

[Meggido]

I have to say, this is a shocking statement.

Is there any scripture that supports bowing out of spreading the Good News, I ask in earnest?

Did Jesus ever chase after the rich young ruler? Did he chase after the people at Nazareth?
Luke 9 & 10, Matthew 10.14...Jesus never wasted time on people that did not believe.....especially the pharisees....

 

[FranC]

Which fruit did you just offer Ariel?

Which fruit was offered to me?
I'm new here.
Are you a member of the Dcon Club too?

 

[UnderGrace]

Another piece of religious nonsense, is we can choose to be unjustified, like we can tell the judge what to do!!

God is a merciful, loving, wonderful God...to put it bluntly, the workers/and I choose to leave believers, need to get over themselves and let God be God.

His plan is perfect, why would anyone expect less.

Ahhh... Dcon....we just forgive him and move on. The Lord will be faithful to all of us.

As I said though - if our eternal destination is dependent on the "doing of good works" it would be a handy dandy piece of information to know exactly what those good works are.

I mean every one needs to be known and exactly how many because if we leave one out - our loving Father will throw His children which He says He loves dearly in hell and then in the lake of fire.

That is the outcome of "not doing good works in order to remain saved" if we boil it down to it's true essence.

This is of course all religious nonsense.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God that is in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection so that Christians will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him and then His life will manifest in the doing of the good works that He has prepared for us to walk in and this will show to the world the Father's and our Lord's love and grace towards them all.

In this the Lord will be greatly glorified. No flesh shall glory in His presence.

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't see that group mentioned in the chat rooms.

 

[PHart]

I don't agree with anyone who believes in eternal security or OSAS, just to clarify.
That's ok.
I enjoy rummaging through the Bible and coming up with stuff.
I've debated with better than you, believe it or not.

Here's the difference.
We use scripture. I could care less about your snappy comments.
We're civil to each other. Just because we disagree, were still brothers in Christ.
We don't call each other names. I only did this with you to show you what it feels like,,,and you don't like it.
We don't talk about other posters as if they aren't around. This is gossiping.
We don't tell the other person they're going to hell by saying they are lost or are in the p!entious group. It's not up to you to know who is saved and who isn't.

I know you know scripture. Stick to that.
Be a nice person.
I know it's tough in many ways to be a soldier and in many ways it's enjoyable.
I respect what you do.
I'd like to respect you for your christianly manner.
I don't hate you.

Wanna get married?

Except for the 'wanna get married' part, I'm with what you're saying here.
I'm actually a pretty nice guy. I love to joke around, though. I've been laughing my head off out loud at my own comebacks here.

I'm new here and I find the 'gloves off, no holds barred' atmosphere liberating, if not entertaining. But I do have to say I have been completely put off by the way several people post here. It's like Jesus and the Pharisees all over again! I can see them looking down their haughty noses at the masses who do not unquestionably agree with what they teach. I'm jokester, and I'm giving it back to 'em. I feel like Phil Hartman in a Saturday Night Live skit here. It's a gas.

 

[FranC]

true, But our forgiveness is not based on confession.. It would be impossible to confess every sin we commit..

What's the matter with you.
Are you serious.?
When are you going to grow up and start eating some spiritual meat?
You need it.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am a member, really I am, I thought you were too?

Cause ya know I did read those flirty type posts... I was thinking that was part of your initiation?


Ohh FranC you really are way tooo much fun.

Which fruit was offered to me?
I'm new here.
Are you a member of the Dcon Club too?

 

[Ariel82]

Bigamy is frown upon in the Bible....pretty sure it's a joke.

However over the internet..you can't ever tell.

 

[Meggido]

true, But our forgiveness is not based on confession.. It would be impossible to confess every sin we commit..

Help us out and clarify...

Are you just being an arrogant prideful baby christian saying cool stuff...
or
Are you saying the Holy Spirit ministry of convicting you is not for you today?
or
Are you saying you have no need to confession because you are perfect and sinless and your past, current and fture sins are already forgiven so confession is not for you...
or
Are you such a sinner that you have trouble with SIN and just cannot help yourself....

 

[Ariel82]

Ahh you came for an audience for your comedy routine?

Well have fun then.

 

[Ariel82]

Help us out and clarify...are you just being an arrogant prideful baby christian saying cool stuff...
or
Are you saying the Holy Spirit ministry of convicting you is not for you today?

He has stated before that our forgiveness is based upon Christ shed blood.

Pretty sure he believe in the Holy spirit convicting people of their sins....

Maybe Fran has a point.., the atmosphere in this thread has become quite hostile.

Perhaps everyone could take a moment and pray?

 

[tourist]

Ahh you came for an audience for your comedy routine?

Well have fun then.

This thread is better than the Comedy Club in Vegas.

 

[FranC]

From what I have read you believe in free will (this concept comes more from ancient Greek philosophers that scripture) but to be clear I do believe we have the ability to choose.

I am not a Calvinist, not that means anything since who really knows what the guy was talking about it has been reinterpreted over and over.

Can you by your own power to choose ... will against sin and will against death?

I ask this because you say you believe we have free will and we can choose to leave our salvation.

Be honest now...I know you will.

Undergrace,

Just as we choose to be saved and believe in Jesus,
We can choose to leave.
We do not lose free will once we are saved.
I'm not saying one just decides to leave. Something has to happen to cause this.

God wants our love.
Love must be freely given.
God does not force us to stay with him.
Did He force you to get saved?
Same thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Covering is not being redeemed...

You gonna answer my questions? Or just ignore them making us all think you have something to hide?

While we are at it, mr PHart, I asked you the same question.

if Abraham dies before he had the chance to offer his son, would he spend eternity with God still, or would he spend eternity separated from God?

 

[Ariel82]

Yes, but do you answer Him when he asks you a question? And do you answer it honestly?
Like this one:

James 2:14 NASB
"if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?"



That is, needed to accompany a profession of faith for that faith to be able to save. We're clear on that, right? This isn't about works being needed to earn salvation. We're good on that, right?



Our uniqueness is only in our giftings. What you call 'works'.

I don't call spiritual gifts, works. I call the ministry we are entrusted with the good works God calls us to do.

I call our fruits..God's good work within us.


If God asked me the question I would ask Him to explain it to me.

For now I believe that a saving faith will lead to good works, but God knows if a person has a saving faith without seeing fruit or good works.

God sees the heart and seals His Kids with the Holy spirit,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay if your theology was sound and biblically accurate you would have an answer, why because Romans makes all this very clear.

its amazing how they can not or refuse to answer questions,

then gen expect us to think they are trustworthy and should be listened too,