Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Really?

So God is creating (by His own express power and will) all these billions of new people and He has no idea what they're going to do? He's looking down upon us gritting His teeth and sweating profusely waiting for someone to get saved? Thinking in His infinitely tortured omniscient mind that it is possible that He set forth the predetermined plan (from eternity past before the world began) to sacrifice his beloved Son in vain and if there are no takers no one will get saved?

From the above it is obvious you have not read or understood a thing I have said.

what you say here supports my view, that God DOES know

thank you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's deliberate, willful, predetermined plan from eternity past my friend.
And the same goes for every single saved person that ever was, ever is, and ever will be.

Acts 4:27-30
“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done. Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

2Thess 2:13
But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

Yep he did

he created man to love and serve, Adam and Eve decided they wanted to serve themselves. So they broke the bond with God, God restored it by sending his son, that whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life

I jesus own words, it is the will of him that sent me that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, and be raised on the last day,

gods plan is about a relationship. between the creator and his creation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The dangerous inference is that God is indeed waiting for others to make the decisions, which in His omniscience He happens to know in advance.

An altogether too common folly.

Any thinking along those lines is utterly crushed by the reality of the Scriptures, which clearly state that in fact God willfully made predetermined plans from eternity past, made all of the decisions about what would happen before it happened, made all of the decisions about what people would say and do before they happened, and of his Own sovereign will chose every single Christian who was ever, is ever, or will ever be saved.

yep God did have a plan, it started with Gen 3: 15 and ended with the resurrection of Christ, and his plan has been whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.

i am not gonna sit here and get into some silly calvinist debate with you or anyone else, it’s foolish. brother condemning brother, have not enough been banned already,

you want to have a discussion, let’s have one, but this attainder from both sides is old and unchristlike.

 

[cv5]

From the above it is obvious you have not read or understood a thing I have said.

what you say here supports my view, that God DOES know

thank you

According to you He knows. He just can't do (nor will do) anything about it.
And He is neutral.......... nothing than a referee or an umpire.

In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.

In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.

 

[cv5]

Yep he did

he created man to love and serve, Adam and Eve decided they wanted to serve themselves. So they broke the bond with God, God restored it by sending his son, that whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life

I jesus own words, it is the will of him that sent me that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, and be raised on the last day,

gods plan is about a relationship. between the creator and his creation

Like I said, your God is in the peanut gallery gritting His teeth, sweating it out hoping some people get saved, while His creation spirals of the control.

As I have aptly demonstrated the Bible says otherwise.

 

[cv5]

Correct. That and infallible foreknowledge.

Infallible control of the situation I say. God does not play dice.

 

[cv5]

have you heard of something called Freewill?


Free will - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.. An action in the past was freely willed if and only if the agent could have willed differently; that is, not performed the action in question and, instead, done something else.

I have. I for one am thrilled that God's Holy will quite literally overshadows, overpowers, overrules and overwhelms my pathetic sinning will.

2Tim 1:9
the One having saved us and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, having been given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,

The free will of frail fallen human sinners is highly overrated.

 

[PennEd]

Infallible control of the situation I say. God does not play dice.

God DOES play dice! But He has those dice loaded to roll exactly what He wants, every time.
Proverbs 16:33
New King James Version
33 The lot is cast into the lap,
But its EVERY decision is from the Lord.

 

[cv5]

God DOES play dice! But He has those dice loaded to roll exactly what He wants, every time.
Proverbs 16:33
New King James Version
33 The lot is cast into the lap,
But its EVERY decision is from the Lord.

Lol. OK, God never loses when He plays dice.

Almighty God sure looks to be in complete control of the situation here.
Sinning angels and sinning men are on His leash. He can't lose and they can't win.

(Psalm 2)
1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us."
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
7 "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall breakthem with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "
10Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to you He knows. He just can't do (nor will do) anything about it.
And He is neutral.......... nothing than a referee or an umpire.

Nonsensical

Again this shows you have no idea of what I think

Again not getting into Calvinist argument it’s a waste of time

In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.

In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.[/QUOTE]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like I said, your God is in the peanut gallery gritting His teeth, sweating it out hoping some people get saved, while His creation spirals of the control.

As I have aptly demonstrated the Bible says otherwise.

Yawn

This gets old.

 

[OIC1965]

Infallible control of the situation I say. God does not play dice.

Fear not. I believe in absolute Sovereignty as well. What things appear to be contradictory are perfectly conpatible. Our finite minds just do not fully grasp or comprehend the Mind and Purpose of God.

The Sovereignty of God is revealed in the last part of Ephesians 1:11 among other places. What Paul says there is more than enough to establish absolute Sovereignty.

 

[cv5]

From the above it is obvious you have not read or understood a thing I have said.

what you say here supports my view, that God DOES know

thank you

Think of it this way.

As regards the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, how did this work?

Did God run the numbers (in eternity past), get the right result, and then green light the Salvation Project? And the myriad of prophetic elements were all by chance, God only recorded what happened? And the only reason He allowed the Salvation Project to move forward is because He looked forward in time and saw that Christ did not fail?

Or did God Himself by sheer force of will, set forth a predetermined premeditated Salvation Project, where all the people involved and all the elements involved and all of the factors involved are doing exactly what he wants them to do? No dice rolling no coin flips no nothing.
No possibility that the Salvation Project would fail, no possibility that Christ would fail, and no possibility that any of the chosen/elect would ever fail to achieve final glorification?

The Bible is unequivocal in stating the latter is true.

God was not sweating it out in eternity past, (or now same thing) running numbers on His cosmic computer, and much to His relief (that's the sweating it out part) found a working scenario dependent only upon these future players who have their own free will, and whose decisions are the only decisions that really matter!

 

[cv5]

Nonsensical

Again this shows you have no idea of what I think

Again not getting into Calvinist argument it’s a waste of time

In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.

In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.

[/QUOTE]
OK. Thank you for your time and attention!

 

[cv5]

Fear not. I believe in absolute Sovereignty as well. What things appear to be contradictory are perfectly conpatible. Our finite minds just do not fully grasp or comprehend the Mind and Purpose of God.

The Sovereignty of God is revealed in the last part of Ephesians 1:11 among other places. What Paul says there is more than enough to establish absolute Sovereignty.

Conflict resolution occurs in higher dimensional spaces no problemo.

 

[OIC1965]

Think of it this way.

As regards the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, how did this work?

Did God run the numbers (in eternity past), get the right result, and then green light the Salvation Project? And the myriad of prophetic elements were all by chance, God only recorded what happened? And the only reason He allowed the Salvation Project to move forward is because He looked forward in time and saw that Christ did not fail?

Or did God Himself by sheer force of will, set forth a predetermined premeditated Salvation Project, where all the people involved and all the elements involved and all of the factors involved are doing exactly what he wants them to do? No dice rolling no coin flips no nothing.
No possibility that the Salvation Project would fail, no possibility that Christ would fail, and no possibility that any of the chosen/elect would ever fail to achieve final glorification?

The Bible is unequivocal in stating the latter is true.

God was not sweating it out in eternity past, (or now same thing) running numbers on His cosmic computer, and much to His relief (that's the sweating it out part) found a working scenario dependent only upon these future players who have their own free will, and whose decisions are the only decisions that really matter!

God is much larger and His Power is much greater than any of us can create a formula for. I don’t think any theological system does justice to this topic. We need to let the Bible say what it says and not fill in any blanks.

I suggest we all stick to what the scripture clearly teaches.

 

[cv5]

Fear not. I believe in absolute Sovereignty as well. What things appear to be contradictory are perfectly conpatible. Our finite minds just do not fully grasp or comprehend the Mind and Purpose of God.

The Sovereignty of God is revealed in the last part of Ephesians 1:11 among other places. What Paul says there is more than enough to establish absolute Sovereignty.

Correction: what I meant to say is paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional spaces.

And God resides in the highest of all dimensional spaces and He has the most degrees of freedom and He does whatever He wills..........because He can. And nobody else can.

Paul touches on this concept all over the place in the New Testament. It's literally everywhere.

 

[OIC1965]

Conflict resolution occurs in higher dimensional spaces no problemo.

There is no conflict in the mind of God, only in our finite understanding of Him. That’s all of us.

I’m still a child that expects new discoveries every time I go to the Word.

I get the sense that none of us fully comprehend God’s Decrees. I feel like there is a mixture of truth and error in all of our arguments. But that’s good, because we can learn from each other.

But everyone’s to busy trying to win the debate. That’s why it hasn’t gotten any clearer over thousands of years.

I can learn from John Bunyan and turn around and learn from John Wesley. And I can discard the things I don’t agree with too.

 

[OIC1965]

Correction: what I meant to say is paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional spaces.

And God resides in the highest of all dimensional spaces and He has the most degrees of freedom and He does whatever He wills..........because He can. And nobody else can.

Paul touches on this concept all over the place in the New Testament. It's literally everywhere.

I fully concur with this post.

 

[tourist]

God DOES play dice! But He has those dice loaded to roll exactly what He wants, every time.
Proverbs 16:33
New King James Version
33 The lot is cast into the lap,
But its EVERY decision is from the Lord.

I agree that God plays dice. It's all in the wrist.