Not By Works

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jaybo said:
I agree with your first paragraph, but your second paragraph doesn't apply to Christians. Unfortunately you're taking what Paul said out of context. Paul's writing in Romans 7 describes the state of someone who has not yet accepted Christ and is still under the Law. It doesn't apply to those of us who are "born of the Spirit" and are not subject to the Old Testament law.
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I disagree. Paul admitted that he wanted to do perfection yet he was actually doing the opposite. I took nothing out of context but was showing that no matter how much we strive to be as perfect as Christ, we will never make it until we get to heaven. We still have that human nature which we fight against daily.
 
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Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
@preacher4truth said this...


Then you responded by saying...



Then you had said this...




You are teaching salvation by merit. In the above quoted post of yours you said God elected those He knew would be willing to be saved. They merited His grace because He elected those He knew(election via knowledge) would be willing to be saved.

If you can’t see that’s salvation by merit, that’s on you, not me.
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You can spin it any way you want

in order for it to be merit it would have to come from myself with out any outside power

without God drawing

without God conviction

without god teaching

i have never stated such a fact.

so you are bearing false witness about what I really believe

now If you can show me where I said my faith came from self with no help from god, I will openly confess you correctly interpreted by my own words,

but if you can not, repent of false accusing me of something not true
 
EleventhHour said:
The constant proselytizing of Calvinism is TIRESOME.... case in point the post above this one.
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I have no problem discussing calvinism I can discuss calvinism with grandpa all day and never get into a battle, it is this group which seem incapable of having a conversation without going off on those who do not believe them. there was a third person who was with them, he always had the avatar from the starfish from squarpants.. anyway it seems nothing changes
 
Magenta said:
The type of excuse given for their reprehensible behavior is that they are "just telling the truth" or "calling it as they see it," while strenuously objecting to anyone else doing the same when it reflects negatively on them.
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The do as I say not as I do symdrome

thats why they get pushed so hard
 
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star said:
I disagree. Paul admitted that he wanted to do perfection yet he was actually doing the opposite. I took nothing out of context but was showing that no matter how much we strive to be as perfect as Christ, we will never make it until we get to heaven. We still have that human nature which we fight against daily.
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Try reading with an open mind what Paul wrote in Romans 7. Paul wrote about his struggle (and therefore ours) before he became a new creation in Christ. If you keep reading, here is what Paul wrote immediately after... "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

It is unfortunate that the introduction of chapters and verses to the Biblical texts has confused so many. Read the Bible "books" in context, or better yet, in their entirety, if you want to understand what was meant by the authors.
 
jackrosie said:
Why don’t you stop going over the same ground......pages and pages of it......can we get back on topic and not listen to you incessantly asking people to apologise to you!!
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Your right. I need to stop and just let him continue to ramble on, I think we all see what is going on here. If it continues we will just see what oncefallen thinks
 
Duskey said:
They’re so caught up in heretical dogma they despise even the thought of someone challenging them. No wonder they present themselves as needing binkies.
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And while they will deny it tooth and nail... Calvin drew a lot of his thinking from Augustine whom he had read and was heavily influenced by.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
I have no problem discussing calvinism I can discuss calvinism with grandpa all day and never get into a battle, it is this group which seem incapable of having a conversation without going off on those who do not believe them. there was a third person who was with them, he always had the avatar from the starfish from squarpants.. anyway it seems nothing changes
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Yes that was SovereignGrace... that is SackCloth and Ashes at least that is what he stated on another thread.
 
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jackrosie said:
Why don’t you stop going over the same ground......pages and pages of it......can we get back on topic and not listen to you incessantly asking people to apologise to you!!
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So, you’re okay with ppl lying on here? Yep, they’ve indoctrinated you. Welcome to their clan.
 
@eternally-gratefull

When you teach, and you do teach it, that God chooses man because he saw man would chose him, it is most definitely meritorious. There are more places that you've taught this.

No, it isn't grace when you teach this "gospel" of yours. Why? Because grace is not merited, it is unmerited favor.

You just cannot accept the fact that your "gospel" is flawed.

Nor are you capable of accepting the fact, no, I didn't lie about you, and no, I didbn't lie about what you teach, and no, I didn't slander anyne and you have no proof I did because it is not there.

You denied you taught the above, yet you do in fact teach exactly what I stated:

eternally-gratefull said:
And you can tell me until your blue in the face. And I would still not believe you.

God saw according to his will. Your ignoring the will of God and what Jesus said.

He chose based on who would believe, He saw who would believe.

Now if you want to talk with me, Please stop with your attitude, You rnot here to TELL me or anyone anything. Your arrogance will nto last long!
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Yep. You teach exactly what I said you teach. Not only that, your insulting attitude in the above response of yours shows a long track record of treating people who respond to you and refute you or disagree with vitriol.

I'm telling you now to end your lying about me. You need to apologize and man up.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
You can spin it any way you want

in order for it to be merit it would have to come from myself with out any outside power

without God drawing

without God conviction

without god teaching

i have never stated such a fact.

so you are bearing false witness about what I really believe

now If you can show me where I said my faith came from self with no help from god, I will openly confess you correctly interpreted by my own words,

but if you can not, repent of false accusing me of something not true
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You said God chose those He knew would be willing. That is merit, no matter any way you spin it.

God either has elected no one(a former pastor of mine said election ended when the last Apostle died), meaning many will be saved He never chose.

Or God has elected those He knew would be willing to be saved. That is Him electing them, not based upon Himself, but what they’d do. That’s salvation via merit. In other words, a meritorious salvation.

Or God has elected ppl based on nothing they would do, but solely upon Himself, His counsel and will. This is the biblical view of election.
 
preacher4truth said:
@eternally-gratefull

When you teach, and you do teach it, that God chooses man because he saw man would chose him, it is most definitely meritorious. There are more places that you've taught this.

No, it isn't grace when you teach this "gospel" of yours. Why? Because grace is not merited, it is unmerited favor.

You just cannot accept the fact that your "gospel" is flawed.

Nor are you capable of accepting the fact, no, I didn't lie about you, and no, I didbn't lie about what you teach, and no, I didn't slander anyne and you have no proof I did because it is not there.

You denied you taught the above, yet you do in fact teach exactly what I stated:



Yep. You teach exactly what I said you teach. Not only that, your insulting attitude in the above response of yours shows a long track record of treating people who respond to you and refute you or disagree with vitriol.

I'm telling you now to end your lying about me. You need to apologize and man up.
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Notice the inflammatory remark here?


Now if you want to talk with me, Please stop with your attitude, You rnot here to TELL me or anyone anything. Your arrogance will nto last long!
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He‘s arrogant and calls someone else arrogant? Pfffffffft!!!
 
preacher4truth said:
Yep, it is. Sadly.

It's time to end this callow nonsense in how people reciprocate. I can say one thing abut you, probably needs to be honed a bit more, me as well, but at least you try to engage Scripture and biblical responses. No, I do not agree with loss of salvation whatsoever, but you say some things I do agree with. I respect your responses, though I disagree with a majority of them.

When this replying biblically happens the typical response is ridicule of one's person, refusal to hear and believe the text, or believe what the person says they believe. And it goes on nearly 24/7/365.
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I like your spirit.

Are you a preacher in a church?

I often hate how these discussions make me to resort to their level in some ways.

I must be in the word and in prayer constantly as to not wind up speaking unadvisedly (if I haven't done so already) like Moses in the wilderness.
 
Micaiah-imla said:
I like your spirit.

Are you a preacher in a church?

I often hate how these discussions make me to resort to their level in some ways.

I must be in the word and in prayer constantly as to not wind up speaking unadvisedly (if I haven't done so already) like Moses in the wilderness.
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I’m agreeing with you here. So by default, according to them, I’m in COMPLETE agreement with you on everything you believe. I guess you’ll get attacked for what I believe. That’s how sharks attack.
 
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Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
Notice the inflammatory remark here?



He‘s arrogant and calls someone else arrogant? Pfffffffft!!!
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It's OK if he offers inflammatory remarks, because he has self-proclaimed himself not to be in a vendetta (when he is in a vendetta with several in this thread).

Remember? His double standard he mentioned? It's therefore OK if he slanders or uses inflammatory language. That right here won't work here, and it won't work before God either.
 
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