Not By Works
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It was both for me.
But anyway, Jesus told the disciples this:
“ 4 ...Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with a water, but in a few days you will be baptized with b the Holy Spirit.”
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Acts 1:4-5,8
Boldness and effectiveness in ministry come from the working of the Holy Spirit inside of you in accordance with your particular spiritual gift. This is not just receiving the Holy Spirit in salvation. This is above and beyond that. My opinion about the matter is you should have someone who believes in the spiritual gifts pray over you for the manifestation of your gift. In time, you will notice supernatural boldness and power in your interactions with people. I know there's a lot of hype out there about this. Just relax and wait for God to show up in his time.
Yes, Jesus does require works to be saved.
He clearly stated in The Sermon on The Mount that in order to have our sins forgiven, we must first forgive others their trespasses. He also clearly stated if we do not forgive others The Father will not forgive us. Forgiveness of others is a righteous act we must perform to be forgiven by The Father.
Do not argue with me, argue with Jesus.
I was reading about it. Pretty shocking story and the response of the people surprising. Especially after having seen the earth open up and swallow Korah and the wrath on the people on Korah's side and then next day they gonna accuse Moses of killing God's people?! I was thinking to myself have they no fear of God and common sense?
Those are fruits of the Spirit.
Please go on. I would like to understand more what Jesus meant in that part of the sermon on the mount with forgiveness.
Amen.....I 100% point to Jesus, his power, his faith
One of three false teachers listed in Jude that opposed God by opposing Moses....Moses called for all with God to stand on his side and all opposed to God to stand with Korah....the ground opened up and all with Korah went down into the pit alive <--Guilt by association!
False.....another deceived one......It is the GIFT OF GOD not of works PAL!
I don't understand the support for that observation. Is it only one person here who is allowed to call people stupid? Do two wrongs make a right? PS is wrong for calling people names, so too is DC.
Is one able to teach that calling people names is wrong when they call people names? Can people who do not like name calling side with one who does this, and condemn another who does this also?
I would hope you'd be concerned for what you shall meet as consequence of your actions, rather than gain satisfaction in thinking others shall according to your judgment of them.
It is false to imply I have ever called evil good. What is wrong behavior is that which resorts to evil while defending it as good and like unto Christ.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:
Evil
ēv´'l, ē´vil רע, ra‛; πονηρός, ponērós, κακός, kakós, κακόν, kakón): In the Bible it is represented as moral and physical. We choose to discuss the subject under these heads. Many of the evils that come upon men have not been intended by those who suffer for them. Disease, individual and national calamity, drought, scarcity of food, may not always be charged to the account of intentional wrong. Many times the innocent suffer with, and even for, the guilty. In such cases, only physical evil is apparent. Even when the suffering has been occasioned by sin or dereliction of duty, whether the wrong is active or passive, many, perhaps the majority of those who are injured, are not accountable in any way for the ills which come upon them. Neither is God the author of moral evil. “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man” (Jas 1:13). See TEMPTATION. [More reading: Physical and Moral Evil]
Guilt by association:[One would wonder then about the tale of Jesus associating with drunks in the Book of Matthew chapter 11. Does Jesus answer for what was judged there as guilt by association?]A drunk man who smelled like beer sat down on a subway seat next to a priest. The man's tie was stained, his face was plastered with red lipstick, and a half empty bottle of gin was sticking out of his torn coat pocket. He opened his newspaper and began reading. After a few minutes the man turned to the priest and asked, "Say, Father, what causes arthritis?"
"My Son, it's caused by loose living, being with cheap, wicked women, too much alcohol and contempt for your fellow man."
"Well, I'll be darned," the drunk muttered, returning to his paper.
The priest, thinking about what he had said, nudged the man and apologized.
"I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to come on so strong. How long have you had arthritis?"
"Oh, I don't have it," the man said. "But I was just reading here that the Pope does."
Preaching magazine September/October 1998
I will not respond to more of this kind of posting. This thread is way off topic. And look at what is talked about and condemned; false teachers, teachings/doctrine, and what we are now doing and saying to one another as we assert our respective views. What is that topic leading us to do and say to one another? Dear Lord, we even have people acting as if they're taking sides. Has false doctrine lead us to graduate unto this kind of behaviors? Appears so.
You cannot possible disagree if you read my post. I addressed false teaching and that it should be corrected, not tolerated.
And saying, "Being Christlike is not compromising." Misrepresents what I actually said.
I said precisely the opposite as pertains to your comment about being Christ like.
In point of fact, what compromises the spirit of the believer who is to put on Christ, be Christ like, is that which acts contrary to His grace and then defends it as that which He would approve. So too is agreeing that kind of behavior is Christ like.
On a personal note: I concurred with PS's atheist observation because I agreed with their observation of the image and likeness of that one to whom they referred. And to that end all that I'd seen and read as directed toward myself let that one's posting style then makes sense.
I once knew someone who owned and operated an atheist discussion forum. Until they found Christ. There he said were aligned a number of atheist members who collaborated together so as to then harass Christians, (at that time I wasn't aware of the all inclusive term Forum Troll), so as to present the worst possible example of one.
Haven't thought of Doug in their capacity as owner/operator for many years now as he passed on in 2016. However, reading PS's remark, I remembered the discussion Doug and I had about that sort of thing. I still have his emails because he was very dear to our family.
What we said back then still applies. When someone puts on the Devil in the name of Christ, they demonstrate they are aligned with one but not the other due to the fit.
And that too may be judged by you as my judging someone's heart and yet, everyone here who levies insult toward anyone and then defends their reason for that is doing that very thing. Judge not lest ye be judged. But if ye judge , judge with righteous judgement.
We shall all be judged by God in the end. And we shall answer for every word we've uttered when we put on Christ and exampled what being Holy Spirit filled meant to us as one sheep in the eternal flock of many.
And that indeed does conclude my feeling the need to respond further to this off topic focus.
Blessings.
No you have believed a lie. Sorry, but you need to know the Truth:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
Romans 4:4-5 (NET)
4 Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.
Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.
1 Corinthians 15:10 (HCSB)
10 But by God’s grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but God’s grace that was with me.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.
Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you did any works, so Obedience is PART of our Agape LOVE, and Not Salvation.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.
🕆
We teach that Obedience has NEVER been part of Salvation, HOWEVER, Obedience is part of Our AGAPE LOVE, Rom. 5:5.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me [Born Again], you will keep My commands.
1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
Only Obedience that is done out of Agape LOVE, is accepted by GOD. It has NOTHING to do with SALVATION or maintaining it.
1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
🕆
The entire bible is the mind of Christ and no where does it say that works save us, help save us or top off salvation.....
In the grace you are, having been SAVED OUT OF FAITH, and that NOT IF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD AND NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
Read that carefully....salvation is a gift of faith!
blah blah blah....I use IGNORANT and have never called him an atheist, I have JUDGED HIS GOSPEL BY THE BIBLE and what he peddles.....regardless...you are siding with a man that devalues Jesus, his blood, his power, his promises and his work on humanities behalf....I don't understand the support for that observation. Is it only one person here who is allowed to call people stupid? Do two wrongs make a right? PS is wrong for calling people names, so too is DC.
Is one able to teach that calling people names is wrong when they call people names? Can people who do not like name calling side with one who does this, and condemn another who does this also?
I would hope you'd be concerned for what you shall meet as consequence of your actions, rather than gain satisfaction in thinking others shall according to your judgment of them.
It is false to imply I have ever called evil good. What is wrong behavior is that which resorts to evil while defending it as good and like unto Christ.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:
Evilēv´'l, ē´vil רע, ra‛; πονηρός, ponērós, κακός, kakós, κακόν, kakón): In the Bible it is represented as moral and physical. We choose to discuss the subject under these heads. Many of the evils that come upon men have not been intended by those who suffer for them. Disease, individual and national calamity, drought, scarcity of food, may not always be charged to the account of intentional wrong. Many times the innocent suffer with, and even for, the guilty. In such cases, only physical evil is apparent. Even when the suffering has been occasioned by sin or dereliction of duty, whether the wrong is active or passive, many, perhaps the majority of those who are injured, are not accountable in any way for the ills which come upon them. Neither is God the author of moral evil. “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man” (Jas 1:13). See TEMPTATION. [More reading: Physical and Moral Evil]Guilt by association:[One would wonder then about the tale of Jesus associating with drunks in the Book of Matthew chapter 11. Does Jesus answer for what was judged there as guilt by association?]
A drunk man who smelled like beer sat down on a subway seat next to a priest. The man's tie was stained, his face was plastered with red lipstick, and a half empty bottle of gin was sticking out of his torn coat pocket. He opened his newspaper and began reading. After a few minutes the man turned to the priest and asked, "Say, Father, what causes arthritis?"
"My Son, it's caused by loose living, being with cheap, wicked women, too much alcohol and contempt for your fellow man."
"Well, I'll be darned," the drunk muttered, returning to his paper.
The priest, thinking about what he had said, nudged the man and apologized.
"I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to come on so strong. How long have you had arthritis?"
"Oh, I don't have it," the man said. "But I was just reading here that the Pope does."
Preaching magazine September/October 1998
I will not respond to more of this kind of posting. This thread is way off topic. And look at what is talked about and condemned; false teachers, teachings/doctrine, and what we are now doing and saying to one another as we assert our respective views. What is that topic leading us to do and say to one another? Dear Lord, we even have people acting as if they're taking sides. Has false doctrine lead us to graduate unto this kind of behaviors? Appears so.
Own it!
You are a joke......and you too just called me an atheist which makes you a liar....!!
Another thing....you don't even know what you are talking about....it is biblical to JUDGE a doctrine being peddled by the word of God....boy your true colors are now shining through...funny how everyone is talking about you behind the scenes and how you talk put of both sides of your mouth.......do me a favor....do not address me with the blather like what is found in your last few posts....and do not ever imply or call me an atheist ever again....!!! And make no mistake, you have aligned yourself with one who is false...good luck with the judgement of God
That is also wrong:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
You contributed nothing towards your SALVATION, Christ did it ALL.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
You have misunderstood what the GOSPEL of GRACE is all about. JESUS DID IT ALL.