Not By Works

[Lightskin]

So you consider yourself knowledgeable enough concerning the "Gospel", to be reigning with Jesus Christ for a thousand years upon His return?
(asking for a friend)

Knowledge has no play in it; faith does.

 

[Chris1975]

Knowledge has no play in it; faith does.

How can there be faith without the knowledge of what you put your trust in?

 

[Lightskin]

Paul never wrote that. Maybe he should instead take it up with you.

Where sin abounds grace abounds all the more. ~~ Romans 5. This contradicts PS’s incorrect proclamation.

 

[Lightskin]

How can there be faith without the knowledge of what you put your trust in?

If you were on the fifth floor of a building that was on fire and you saw a rope that you can use to scale down the side of the building to avoid being burned to death, do you need to know how the rope was made and manufactured or do you just need to have faith that it’s not going to snap while scaling down the side of the building? Salvation comes through faith, not knowledge. Jesus’ analogy of having faith like a child is proof of that.

 

[Lightskin]

Until people understand what this means without it meaning you earn your own salvation by works of righteousness they will never understand how works of righteousness must be a part of a legitimate salvation experience. And they will be the ones who wake up on the other side with the look of astonishment on their faces when they see they are not going to enter into the kingdom.

John 3:16

 

[Chris1975]

Where sin abounds grace abounds all the more. ~~ Romans 5. This contradicts PS’s incorrect proclamation.

Your camp has been misquoting that for quite a while now.

Lets address this:

Romans 5
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6 (THE VERY NEXT VERSE)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Where sin abounds grace abound all the more does not mean that you are free to sin as much as you want as a way for grace to abound even more. The next verse Rom6v1 explains it more clearly. Therefore we need to go back to Rom5v20 to understand what it means. It means that the LAW exposed the gravity and extent of sin. And Christ's sacrifice (His Grace) covers the full spectrum of what the law exposed. No one could have sinned so much that Christ's blood could not wash them clean. Christ covers it all.

Now that we have become Christ's (and are no longer under the law), are we then to continue in sin so that Grace abounds even more. BY NO MEANS....!!

 

[Chris1975]

If you were on the fifth floor of a building that was on fire and you saw a rope that you can use to scale down the side of the building to avoid being burned to death, do you need to know how the rope was made and manufactured or do you just need to have faith that it’s not going to snap while scaling down the side of the building? Salvation comes through faith, not knowledge. Jesus’ analogy of having faith like a child is proof of that.

No, but I would have had to have known (knowledge) at some point in my upbringing the following facts:
1) Buildings are high
2) Ropes can support weight
3) Fire kills.

This is knowledge.

Wisdom is using the rope

 

[EleventhHour]

Dcon been saying for some time we will mix it up with Iran......wonder where I got that at!

My "not good" was in reference to a friend out of the country mostly, sorry I did not elaborate.

 

[Lightskin]

Your camp has been misquoting that for quite a while now.

Lets address this:

Romans 5
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6 (THE VERY NEXT VERSE)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Where sin abounds grace abound all the more does not mean that you are free to sin as much as you want as a way for grace to abound even more. The next verse Rom6v1 explains it more clearly. Therefore we need to go back to Rom5v20 to understand what it means. It means that the LAW exposed the gravity and extent of sin. And Christ's sacrifice (His Grace) covers the full spectrum of what the law exposed. No one could have sinned so much that Christ's blood could not wash them clean. Christ covers it all.

Now that we have become Christ's (and are no longer under the law), are we then to continue in sin so that Grace abounds even more. BY NO MEANS....!!

Verse 6: “certainly not” is lived out by OSAS peeps, but for some reason your camp fails to understand this. Perhaps it’s the log in your eyes blinding you to the truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen! Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Amen
the day of redemption. Not until we fail to live up to some standard or fail to do a specific work

 

[NayborBear]

Then You do not understand BORN AGAIN. I will tell you one more time.

Born Again is when the Holy Spirit comes in you, and Births your once dead Human Spirit into Eternal Life.
It can take a few minutes to several hours. With me it took 2 or 3 hours, as I could not Believe HE COULD FORGIVE ME so much, such a sinful lifestyle.

My Born Again experience was after my Third attempt at SUICIDE, the last week of 1977. I new the most dangerous surface to ride a motorcycle on was loose gravel. That afternoon I saw them pouring the Gravel on a dirt road near my house. I planned to go back after I got good and drunk to arrange a fatal motorcycle accident.

The Reason I wanted to commit suicide, want on Christmas Eve a week before my wife of only 6 months, had demanded a DIVORCE, because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she want in life. Some Reason for a divorce, and I still cannot believe the words came out of her mouth on Christmas Eve. I hit Bottom BIG TIME. I felt like a COMPLETE FAILURE. The first two times I had a pistol against my temple, with the trigger half pulled. I did not care if I hurt my parents, I did not care if I hurt my brother or sister by committing suicide; all I KNEW was I wanted to CEASE to EXIST, and NOT SEE ANOTHER DAY. Both times EXTREME TERROR overwhelmed me, BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY KNEW IF I FINISHED PULLING THAT TRIGGER I WAS GOING TO HADES/HELL. I mean I was raised in a CHURCH, I believed all the Stories about Jesus were TRUE, attended Church Regularly, Sat on the Pew, put money in the Collection Plate every week, was Confirmed in the Church, etc., etc. And I knew I was going to Hades/Hell if I finished Pulling that trigger.

The third time I attempted suicide, I got as drunk as I have ever had been, rode my bike out to that very loose Gravel country mile, with No Helmet, about 01:15 in the morning. As I approached that Mile, I Taunted GOD, and screamed at Him, "If you want me, you can take me any where on this mile you can let me have a fatal accident." I knew the Bible said it was a SIN to test GOD THAT WAY; AND DID NOT CARE. Cranked that throttle WIDE OPEN, leaned out over the Handle Bars, so that when I lost Control, I WOULD HIT HEAD FIRST.

I RODE that entire mile, with the throttle wide open, and it felt like I was riding on Pavement. At the end of that mile I pulled over to stop, Looking Back at the Mile in Bewilderment. Went slowly home, and sat up most of the night, and sobered about 4:00 or maybe it was about 5:00, and decided to go to bed. As I walked into the Bedroom, IT HIT ME, "I CANNOT RIDE A BIKE LIKE THAT, NOT EVEN SOBER, GOD MUST HAVE REACHED DOWN AND GRABBED MY MOTORCYCLE AND SAID 'NO YOU DON'T! I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIVE." That thought in my head started Wave, after Wave, after Wave, of extreme GUILT for my WHOLE LIFESTYLE, that WASHED OVER ME. I fell to my knees, bawling and weeping with Baby. I was Crying out to HIM, "Lord, Lord, PLEASE FORGIVE ME!" Over and over and over again. Non-stop SOBBING, as I felt SO Incredibly GUILTY for my who lifestyle. Somewhere in the middle of it all, when I had gone prone on the floor, the HOLY SPIRIT must have given me a Prayer to Pray.

Lord God, If you have a purpose for my Life; then You are going to have to come Into It and run my life, because I CANNOT DO IT. I am making a TOTAL mess of my life.

The is what I prayed, AND NO ONE IN the Lutheran Church I attended had ever taught me to pray like that, SO I have to believe the Holy Spirit GAVE ME THAT SURRENDER PRAY. I meant It, Every Word of IT, it was a TOTAL Surrender to HIM out of Agape LOVE and TRUST. That is about were I leave off my Testimony with most People, but there is MORE. I was still sobbing over my Extreme Guilt. I had a vision or a dream, and if it was a dream it was the most vivid dream I ever had. I was at the foot of the Cross, on my knees still Sobbing Crying out "Please Forgive ME, Please Forgive Me", it was like all my sins were like another one pound weight pulling down on his arms increasing HIS torment. And at that moment I saw the Nails were in the wrists and not in his hands. I had never heard of that being the Case until years later, when a Christian Doctor on radio, told us the Nails had to be in the wrists, and not in the hands, because in the hands they would have torn through the flesh. And he said it did not matter, because Jews did consider the wrist were part of the hands. I looked and I saw blood falling from both wrists, and with my arms reaching out, from my knees to HIM, then the blood fell on my Forearms, AND TO MY SURPRISE IT FELT WARM. That is where the Dream or Vision ended. BUT I KNEW I WAS TOTALLY FORGIVEN AT THAT MOMENT. I notice there was LOVE in my CHEST for HIM, my dead spirit was eternally alive.

Later I tried to annualized in the Scripture what happen to me that night, I come across these verses.
And this was WHAT I DID LITERALLY:

Romans 10:9-11 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

I knew that it was a Confessions, and was NOT just a profession. It had to be TRUE in my HEART, before I could say it as a confession, AND THAT NIGHT I had surrendered to JESUS in AGAPE LOVE, and would NEVER take it back. As I began to feed on HIS WORD, something was in my heart was making me want MORE and MORE of that kind of teaching. The BIBLE became the most exciting book in the world to me. And then I notice the war going on in my heart, while the fleshly mind between my ears wanted to go party. Yes it was like I had a definite two minds. In my Heart was the mind that wanted to do what JESUS WANTED. And in my Head, that mind wanted to go Party, of some other Sin. The Mind in my heart finally after I had fed it the WORD enough, it became dominant.

That is what BORN AGAIN, is really like.

When I seen you had responded to me, I immediately went to the emoji's and hit "informative," as I had asked for your "testimony" (if you will, or point of conversion), after I had given just you my "testimony/point of conversion", in here. (so shhh! Don't tell anyone! )

After I was ready to respond in "my usual manner", about hearing the sounds of "crickets?" Which is "generally" what happens?
I inquired "in the name of Jesus", and "my call" was redirected by "the Spiritual Switchboard" which is one of the "blessings", if you will, Jesus does for those "already in the sheep pen", who are "Spiritually sensitive" (SOME THINGS are Spiritually discerned) enough in "hearing" our Father's voice.

Anyways, "my call/prayer" was "taken" by The Ancient of Days. Who told me: "Ya best read his post first, before replying." (this is what agapeo love does, and what Paul MEANT when he instructed to "Pray WITHOUT ceasing.") It's "like" a "red line set up", directly between the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, and you!

I am SO GLAD I "obeyed!"

THANK YOU!

Most people won't, or can't, describe what it "feels" like to be "Crucified WITH Christ!"

Mine came, when I was very young, even before I was baptized. After coming home from church one time, I "felt" this "enormous guilt", that it was "I" who, or among those who DID crucify Jesus! I actually wanted my sister to suffocate me with a pillow she was standing on, as I was laying on the floor. Actually dunno why I'm still here! Guess God had "other" plans, eh?

Unlike your testimony....and I dunno how to explain it except "this" way: I was born from the womb, already believing that "ALL that "glitters?" "Is NOT "Gold!"....Or?
Matthew 24
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Reckon, I don't need to tell YOU, who "eagles" represent, eh? (unaccountable ones)

And? Unlike you, I didn't and STILL don't "trust" God! In my testimony, I TOLD Him: "You're going to HAVE to "take me", kicking and fighting, and screaming, and clawing, every step of the way!"
To which He told ME? "GOOD!" "I wouldn't WANT you, ANY OTHER way!" The "motto" being: "Easy lessons?", "Come easy! "HARD lessons?" "Come harder!"
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable TO God BY Jesus Christ. (Spiritual switchboard)

Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:3 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
3 Adonai said, “My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps I should be quiet as I am in the process of learning.

Always ask questions. That’s how we learn bro!

 

[EleventhHour]

Your camp has been misquoting that for quite a while now.

Lets address this:

Romans 5
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6 (THE VERY NEXT VERSE)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Where sin abounds grace abound all the more does not mean that you are free to sin as much as you want as a way for grace to abound even more. The next verse Rom6v1 explains it more clearly. Therefore we need to go back to Rom5v20 to understand what it means. It means that the LAW exposed the gravity and extent of sin. And Christ's sacrifice (His Grace) covers the full spectrum of what the law exposed. No one could have sinned so much that Christ's blood could not wash them clean. Christ covers it all.

Now that we have become Christ's (and are no longer under the law), are we then to continue in sin so that Grace abounds even more. BY NO MEANS....!!

Yes and you do not understand verse six at all... The two questions are what Paul has heard from people who are distorting his message of grace... he is showing how desperate deniers are by accusing we teach sin so that grace will abound... and please keep reading because you make the exact some false accusation... that we teach evil that good may come.

 

[Lightskin]

No, but I would have had to have known (knowledge) at some point in my upbringing the following facts:
1) Buildings are high
2) Ropes can support weight
3) Fire kills.

This is knowledge.

Wisdom is using the rope

1. Jesus is Lord. (That’s true whether people acknowledge it or not.)
2. Believe in Him and you will be saved.
3. I believe in Him and am saved.

Grace through faith, not knowledge.
And it’s beautiful.

 

[NayborBear]

So you don’t mock me, a sinner, but you mock yourself, a wild olive branch. Interesting.

Mocking the wild olive branch I see permeating your posts!
Don't take it personally. Because, when you do? It "tells" how "entangled", you still are. And how much more "works" ) needs be done! Hence the mocking and scoffing!

 

[NayborBear]

Knowledge has no play in it; faith does.

So, by your own admission!
You REALLY DON'T KNOW what yer talking about, eh?
You just BELIEVE you know what yer talking about!

interesting

 

[NayborBear]

1. Jesus is Lord. (That’s true whether people acknowledge it or not.)
2. Believe in Him and you will be saved.
3. I believe in Him and am saved.

Grace through faith, not knowledge.
And it’s beautiful.

That's what flying bugs say also!
Right before they go SPLAT, on God's windshield!

Guess I don't have to tell you the LAST THING that goes through a bugs mind as he SPLATS against the windshield do I?

 

[EleventhHour]

That's what flying bugs say also!
Right before they go SPLAT, on God's windshield!

Guess I don't have to tell you the LAST THING that goes through a bugs mind as he SPLATS against the windshield do I?

This is absolutely and completely a bizarre post.

 

[Lightskin]

Mocking the wild olive branch I see permeating your posts!
Don't take it personally. Because, when you do? It "tells" how "entangled", you still are. And how much more "works" ) needs be done! Hence the mocking and scoffing!

No doubt I am a work in progress, and it’s all Jesus’ work, I’m simply the beneficiary. I know you hate that, but it’s okay Pookie, you’ll learn to live with it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[…] Everybody clamors for Him as Savior though. And everyone who thinks they couldn't fall or is absolutely going to attain to the "out resurrection" is deceived. Before the very end for Paul, it was "if by any means I may attain to the resurrection of the dead." And there fat Christians sit claiming they got it, […]

First, we should understand what Philippians 3 is speaking of (note the word "mind" at the front and end of that SECTION: in 2:2 and then on the other end in 3:15-16 OF THAT particular SECTION...

[and even the major theme of the entire epistle is "the Christlike MIND that brings joy/peace"])

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4056946 -SEE LINK at this post, a very brief on Philippians 3 [quoted only in part, in that post; see the rest at LINK found in that post]

[…] and I have been commanded to be perfect as My Father in Heaven is, just as you have been also.

Your reference is to Matthew 5:48.

I'm not seeing the "imperative [/command]" in that verse (which would be represented by the letter "M" in the column to the right (NOT the one where it's referring to the "Middle Voice" tho)... but it instead has the "future INDICATIVE ['I']" [not "IMPERATIVE ['M']" (/command)])

https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/5-48.htm