AMEN.............and not just about salvation either......
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
AMEN.............and not just about salvation either......
Already posted several, including Matthew 25.
And
Luke 8:13The seeds on rocky ground are those who hear the word and receive it with joy, but they haveno root. They believe for a season, but in the time of testing, they fall away.
That does not describe people who rejoice in the eternal, irrevocable gift of salvation. Try again.
Of course it doesn't, it describes those that believed for a while and fell away meaning that they lost faith after initially believing. Also thoroughly disproves eternal security thing.
No it doesn't.
God's inspired written word proves those who are outwardly believers are not always born again. -> Not of us.
1 John 2:19 [/B][/SIZE]
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Wheat and tares
What don’t you understand about having no root? Such people receive the Word with joy but have no faith in the Word. Root/faith = eternal security.
5 "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."
6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7 With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."
Isaiah 6
There is no resolution to this dilemma. We are always created beings, always humble, flawed,
limited next to the immortal and eternal.
Even in the throne room, the 24 elders bow down
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,
10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
Rev 4
I think for eternity we will never fully understand this contradiction between us and the Lord.
How is it that He wants to talk with us and be friends?
3 years with Jesus, and the disciples were still not sure, in awe. Peter assumed and got it wrong.
Peter so close, and yet started to side with the circumcision group, to be rebuked by Paul.
I suspect this reality is something you maybe find hard to see, yet there it is. God bless you.
Outwardly believer is your own creation. It is written, they believed for a season and fell away, not 'believed outwardly for a season'.
Another interpretation is not their faith that is a problem it is how far they let love
grow in their heart and change them. A hard heart takes the words and then rejects
them, wanting to stay the same and not be broken up, like a hard path or rocky ground.
So we learn to interpret differently, because what matters is the change not how we
describe it. And you could say those with working faith will always let it change their
hearts and transform them with streams of living water. God bless you
Why do you ignore the scriptures?
No root, He never knew them, they were not of us or they surely would have continued, we are not of them.....
Not to mention the dozens you have been shown which proves there is eternal security for Gods children...
I hope you can forgive me, but I can see another view here.
Believers are close to God, taken into the special place, while the world is lost is trying to be good
and justifying themselves.
In this world identification with God is seen as just accepting Jesus and His gift.
So different world views lead to different meanings of being close.
This is why sometimes these aspects are addressing different experiences and understanding.
This is an interpretation, a wrong interpretation just like the others.
Jesus knows everyone.
He does not intimately know everyone..... the I never knew you is in reference to them never being part of His family....
Not general knowledge of someone...
I may know the man who I buy my groceries from but I do not KNOW Him.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They may feel they have done enough "wonderful works" to be justified
but Jesus is not a liar
they were never Gods children
"but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"
John 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
So how did these branches get attached to Him?
John 15:1I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
Yes, i really want to know. How did the non fruitful branches get attached to Jesus if He never knew them.
it has clearly been explained about 7 times in this thread alone in replys to you over the last few days
Welp, you see how Jesus says He never knew them?
But you said already He knows everyone.... that is true...
But He doesn't know everyone as His family, not everyone is born again into His family.
If you pay attention to when this specific parable of the vine is taught in relation to judas
it helps you understand the context
The same way Jesus can say I never knew you, while He did in fact know them and not be a liar or contradict Himself.
He can also say "in me".
The verse is clearly demonstrating the power HE HAS in those who know Him. And compares it to the lack of power in the fakers who are in the same congregations.