Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Defenderofgrace said:
How do we do that is the real question

Bdf is pretty much one word against another
Click to expand...

Not sure of the connection to BDF?

We do that by coming into agreement with God that we are a new creation in Him, new identity

You live out what how you see yourself, what you are persuaded of, if you take a stand with God that you are a new creation in Him (have a new identity) then that is what you will manifest.

It is quite easy actually, but problems arise because...

1) the person is not born again
2) the person is not coming into agreement with God that they are a new creation in Christ, have a new identity
3) the person still thinks they have to perform in the flesh (lordship doctrine) rather that walking in the Spirit and they do not understand the finished work of Christ Jesus
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcontroversal
VCO said:
YOUR THEORY OF WHAT OSAS BELIEVERS TEACH AND BELIEVE IS TOTALLY FALSE.
Square your THEORY about OSAS with these SCRIPTURES.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [Antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

2 Samuel 23:5 (NCV)
5 “This is how God has cared for my family. God made a lasting agreement with me, right and sure in every way. He will accomplish my salvation and satisfy all my desires.

Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

If I am correct, OSAS theology goes something like this: if a person has a sincere moment of faith in Jesus Christ/trust Jesus with his salvation then God is forever constrained from blotting out their name from the Book of Life. There is no mention in these verses that refers to God being bound in this way.
There is nothing to "square away" since none of these scriptures support the OSAS theology.
 
Defenderofgrace said:
have you even noticed that those who believe that salvation is losable and forfeitable, somehow believe that they are somehow eternally secured and sealed toward heaven onto the day of redemption?

as if they are a living counterexample against their own claim that OSAS is false
Click to expand...
Can you provide an example of this claim?
 
dcontroversal said:
They have no concept of this truth...eternal redemption <---the very truth and verbiage of this statement condradicts a losable salvation......some must be as dense as lead or just obstinate.....
Click to expand...
And circus clowns....don't forget circus clowns.
 
mailmandan said:
So just how holy must you be? :unsure:

The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. Those who have been justified by faith are sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...

I guess the imputed righteousness of Christ is not sufficient....oh I forgot...she rejects that truth as well
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnderGrace
mailmandan said:
So just how holy must you be? :unsure:

The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. Those who have been justified by faith are sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...
So just how much should we believe?:unsure:

The NKJV reads - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 
DJ3 said:
So just how much should we believe?:unsure:

The NKJV reads - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Click to expand...

Your version...For God so loved the word that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosever believes in him, does great works, never sins, is baptized, sprinkled, speaks in tongues, says 57 hail marys, gives 10 percent, back flips down the isle while singing 57 verses of just as I am while helping Jesus keep his promises and maintaining salvation by self effort and self justification MIGHT NOT PERISH and with little hope and some good luck will have everlasting life.......if the are lucky
 
stillness said:
Having Unconditional Love of the Holy Spirit doesent mean we don't fall out of Love any more. "In the world you will have trouble, but be of good chear, I have overcome the world," we fail into Grace: into God's influence to get back up and go on, learning from the fall to return to the Lord; learning of Him in Humility to be taimed by God as a friend, and no longer be driven by work in pride of achiement. "Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We learn from the trouble we face in the world to stay close to the One who overcame and attained the Resurrection. So that "All things work together for good to them that Love God, and all things are of God." The enemy has been striped even of the keys of death and hell, so that the valley of the shadow of death, also referred as the valley of decision, belongs to God. Even the deceptions of the enemy now belong to God, you may ask what would God do with deceptions? Reward everyone according to their work: without Right relationship with God we are in deception, until we are perfect in Love we have areas of deception. You may call it a dark closet that you don't want to go in and neither want God to go in. That is deception of fear, since it all belongs to God you need to welcome Him there to Learn of Him, Love in your deepest pain: in your sickness and death that He overcame. Jesus said "Nothing by any means shall harm you If you believe." Dying will not harm you, it may hurt your fealings but will not harm you, just like drinking sour milk will hurt your feelings but will not harm you. Not by works means, no one attains Resurrection on their own. Even Jesus taking the blame for His creation relied on the Holy Spirit to carry Him to the Resurrection. It may even be the dying of the Lord Jesus that made distinction in the Godhead as 3 different personalities. Jesus still suffers for us and with us, the Holy Spirit still compels us to come and drink of the Living water and we pray to the Father in the identity of Jesus in constant fellowship with the Father.
Click to expand...


WOW, You are CONFUSED.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love [PRESENT TENSE] Me, you will keep [AORIST TENSE] My commands.


The PRESENT Tense MEANS:
The present tense can either be continuous/ongoing or undefined.

The AORIST Tense MEANS:
Without boundries, never ending. The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense.

I would suggest you use the BLUE LETTER BIBLE online, to learn what those verbs actually mean. You have to click on TOOLS, then PARSE to get the verb Tense.

Now where did that KIND of LOVE actually Come from: FROM GOD HIMSELF, WHEN WE WERE ACTUALLY BORN AGAIN, MOMENTS AFTER WE REPENTED, AND RECEIVED JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, MEANING MASTER, OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.

NO THAT IS NOT A HUMAN WORK, IT IS ACTUALLY A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Remember you received HIM by the Holy Spirit:
1 Cor. 12:3

Here is the verse that SHOWS YOU GOD Put HIS LOVE IN YOUR HEART by the Holy Spirit. IT IS THE SEED that produced saving FAITH, and IT WILL REPLICATE ITSELF, just like any SEED that is PLANTED in FERTILE SOIL, by being just like the parent SEED. NONE OF IT IS OF SELF, if it is REAL.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

If you DO NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF LOVE IN YOU HEART, you are not YET SAVED.

If you Think You Can LOSE Your LOVE FOR GOD, THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT, perhaps; you have LESS THAN the Minimum LOVE that JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT IN John 14:15.

That is not talking about perfection, it is an ongoing LIFESTYLE, of striving to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
What about those who appear to have fallen away? THEY NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN.

Does a Christian stumbles and sins one in a while, but NEVER AS A LIFELSTYLE. How do I know?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


THUS, When the LIFESTYLE Remains uncorrected, this verse is absolutely TRUE about THEM:

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

I ABSOLUTELY KNOW THIS DESCRIBES OSAS:

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

In the Parable of the GATES, the MANY entered the WRONG GATE, and THEY think they are CHRISTIANS, Mat. 7.
The MANY have many Great Christian Deeds, and JESUS said: "I NEVER KNEW YOU."
They never entered through the inner, personal, LOVE relationship of received Christ as LORD, meaning Master.
So do you know you are not on the wrong road?
You can be absolutely POSITIVE, to where YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcontroversal
The bible's version of hope.....a CONFIDENT EXPECTATION OF SOMETHING GUARANTEED........people...do not for one micro second believe this lying false hope and fake inept religious blather peddled by the salvation losers....Jesus saves to the uttermost, keeps us by his power and states clealry he will LOSE NOTHING....his gift is irrevocable and we have been born from above by incorruptible seed and given EYERNAL LIFE....not some temporary losable life based upon what we do or do not do......what they peddle REEKS of religious ineptism and SLAVERY.......we have been set feee from that garbage!!
 
DJ3 said:
So just how much should we believe?:unsure:

The NKJV reads - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Click to expand...
It’s about the object of our belief. We must believe/trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Not believe 50% in Christ and 50% in works. 100% belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnderGrace
perhaps the idea that "Jesus takes all the credit" provokes jealousy with the possible thought that Jesus is a "credit-hog" relative to their perspective
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back