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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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But you don't enter the realm of the Spirit until you first obey.
…unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law,you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 5:32.
…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
They can never get this right. It is all about them. Not about Christ.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No. Boasting about the cross in praising God for wht he did..
Pauls focus was on Christ and his redemption. Not how good a person he (paul) was..
For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.
Could you explain what this scripture means?
Being saved is about a personal relationship with Jesus. How do you get that doing everything that Jesus says, living to please him, is not about Him?
Nobody is saying don't obey God or that we are saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that results in no obedience/works. (James 2:14) Authentic faith in Christ results in obedience (Ephesians 2:5-10), but we are still saved through faith in Christ and not by obedience/works which follow. You just can't seem to get that through your head. Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I couldn't get it through my head either. Been there, done that.
*BUT NOW I BELIEVE (Romans 1:16) and the blinders have been removed. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
Praise God! 
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Being saved is about passing from death to life, and haveing an eternal relationship with God,
But you have to get the “being saved part” right. If your not saved, You can do all the works you want. They will nto amount to anything but bloody rags.
Does walking in Gods ways keep us saved, or is it our heart to walk in love and serve Him and
others? It seems to me if one mocks walking Gods ways, what ways are you walking in?
Oh you righteous boasters, how dare you do good and proclaim God is Holy, loving and kind
and man is hopeless sinners doomed to destruction.
Paul talks of the ways of the world being like this
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:29-31
But the people of God are like this
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:12-14
You may notice there is a vast difference and focus.
But maybe unbelievers cannot tell the difference and find themselves in the first group, yet
wonder why if they believe they are not in the second group. Maybe because they have not
repented and resolved the issues God has laid on their hearts and have become conceited.
Israel did though they saw God in the pillar of smoke by day and fire by night.
yes, I quit caring about getting a " x ' when I was in 8th grade passing notes in class.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Boasting of the changed lives that occur to ALL people who are born of Christ.
Its not basting on each other doing all these good works.. Its boasting in Christ changing them. And all that comes from that. (The ahole package)
You focus to much on self my friend. And works. You miss most of the package.
Until you start to boast more in God and his promise and his power. You are not a speaker for Christ.. Your boasting in your own power and ability, Not Gods..
You turn boasting in the cross into boasting in self.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
He also adde3d to th eword. Paul never said those things, He said he boasted IN CHRIST.You turn boasting in the cross into boasting in self.
Paul also admitted the thorn in the flesh was to keep him in check. Because the sin of Pride was pauls weakness. And if it was nto held in check, he would have taken himself out by his sin!
Obey what? Obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16) *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow believing the gospel and becoming saved. In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is the act of obedience that saves.
What righteousness is that? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Here we see how Jesus characterized conversion. It pictures faith as the simple, helpless, trusting, dependence of those who have no resources or achievements of their own to offer or commend themselves with. We are to have the same type of faith that little children exhibit. The most trusting people in the world are children. Children have not acquired the obstructions to faith that often come with advanced education and exposure to the philosophies of men. Christ calls us to have the same kind of trust that little children naturally have. People must become as little children in humbly recognizing their helplessness in attaining the kingdom by their own merits and realize they are 100% dependent on Jesus Christ for salvation.
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar? Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain eternal life.
Are you feeling like the world is kicking you down? Do you feel depressed, sad, lonely, sick? Do you feel like nothing is working out for you? Well I got GOOD NEWS for you:
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Remember that ALL THINGS will work together for good to them that love God! It might seem like nothing good is coming out of this but REMEMBER God will keep His promise and it WILL work together for good! You will see it later down the line, and once you get to heaven you will see "ah I see, that is why that happened"
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
One of the tests for who is the true God is: "Tell me what happened in the past and WHY it happened". Only the true God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob knows what happened and WHY it happened.
It will all be revealed to us in that glorious day when we enter the presence of the Lord forever. I know like me, you probably have some questions you want answered! BE PATIENT, all things in due time.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Remember that ALL THINGS will work together for good to them that love God! It might seem like nothing good is coming out of this but REMEMBER God will keep His promise and it WILL work together for good! You will see it later down the line, and once you get to heaven you will see "ah I see, that is why that happened"
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
One of the tests for who is the true God is: "Tell me what happened in the past and WHY it happened". Only the true God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob knows what happened and WHY it happened.
It will all be revealed to us in that glorious day when we enter the presence of the Lord forever. I know like me, you probably have some questions you want answered! BE PATIENT, all things in due time.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
They seem to think that we can conjure up enough power in ourself to be able to crucify our flesh and love others as God loved us BEFORE we experience Gods love. And only after of our own power we do this. THEN we are saved (as long as we keep doing those things)
When the bible says we love BECAUSE he first loved us..
It is not from us, It is the abundance of Gods love given to us that empowers us to love others.
Its like I said in the past: Some people leave God completely out the picture! Its just you, you and you!
If salvation was upto man NOBODY would be saved.
If God doesnt act first, its WORKS SALVATION. Man is dead in trespasses and sins, God has to move first, God has to act first. ANYONE who disagrees with that is a HERETIC. Even roman catholics agree God has to move first!!!
Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief, (John 3:18) saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us and enables us, (John 6:44,65) we would NEVER come to believe in/place faith in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. Until man gets to the end of the creature, he will not get to the beginning of the Creator.