remember, fran thinks " believe " means " obey ".
( though they are 2 totally greek words with different definitions)
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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remember, fran thinks " believe " means " obey ".
( though they are 2 totally greek words with different definitions)
For some, simply hearing the gospel is enough to believe. For others, it may take years of study. Either way, it boils down to intellectual assent, which is not a work.
hey, you never answered my questions from a couple of weeks ago.
i'll remind you- I said that you think one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved.
you said you do not say that.
I said o.k., then one can choose to keep the twilight fri. to sat. Sabbath, or rest one day a week, which God modeled for us.
you never responded to that.
care too?
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
No, faith for me was an indwelling response to the truth when I heard it... I did not want to believe and tried to remain ignorant.... but I could not because of the fear... (because I did believe) so I started seeking Jesus believing He was my only hope
U
UnderGrace
Guest
So how much love does one have to see?
Mr. @VCO think on this.... as someone once told me
A command that everyone keeps is superfluous, and a reward that everyone receives for a virtue that everyone has is nonsense.
Most of the new testament letters are filled with exhortations.
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:10)
One point is clear here. Good works are not seen as the EVIDENCE that we are God's workmanship, but rather as the expected result of that workmanship. Whether this result will be achieved is not stated!!!!
Notice: "should walk". This verb is "peripatesomen": 1 person plural aorist active SUBJUNCTIVE, the mood of potential, not reality.
God does not drag anyone down the path of obedience.
I will not quarrel that where there is justifying faith, that naturally, signs of regenerate life should exist too. This is a reasonable assumption for any Christian unless he has been converted on his death bed!
However, it is quite wrong, and another thing altogether, to claim that a life of dedicated obedience and the consistent display of the love of God is guaranteed by regeneration, or even that such works as they are must be visible to a human observer.
God alone may be able to detect the signs of life from regeneration in some of His children.
Salvation is intellectual assent. Nope. Salvation is being born of the Spirit.
Belief is believing God can change us from sinner to saint.
No change no salvation. No faith no salvation. Simple.
Look at this thread. What people call truth is subjective.
Funny how people make the wrong point. Truth is objective, but we see it only
by seeing Jesus on the last day.
Study seems like work to me I had to force my self to do it. It did not come naturally. It's like doing pushups to the weak. As we get stronger it becomes easier but at first it's easier to resist than to do. Especially when your entire family is RCC, LDS or JW and you realize it's lies possibly mixed with some truth.
For me it was easier to recognize the lies than the truth. It took work like a student doing homework before I could believe or receive. I used to hate homework. But now that's changed too. PTL.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Faith is placed on or in something that is trustworthy.Did faith before evidence not require some convincing. Did it not require a level of acceptance on our part. Is believing what seems impossible require some level of work on our part? Has any of us never questioned or doubted what we were taught? Is not the American version of Sant Clause or the Easter Bunny a lie? We figured it out for ourselves. Why do we believe in Jesus? We figured out it's true. That took work in our heads and hearts.
I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.
That's enough dialectics rom me for today.
A work is done to earn a reward, or a wage or your freedom (save yourself)
Grace is through faith in Christ, Not of works. Faith is not a work. It causes works.
Truth is not subjective - no matter what you think.
Fear of what? I didn't believe in hell till after I believed in Jesus. And you even said you started seeking didn't that require effort, determination and focus?
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UnderGrace
Guest
Mr. Bob
If faith is a work then we have earned our salvation, that is a problem.
Faith is not an act of our will either, because we often believe things against our will
Faith is passive, it is the act of being persuaded.
Second while we do strive to enter the gate, meaning like a natural birth there is a conviction that takes place, that does not mean that to enter the gate is a work, we enter when we have been persuaded, faith is the passive result of this conviction based on the evidence and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore faith is not a work, it is the instrument by which we are saved...we are saved by grace through faith
Intellectual assent simply means, "this is what I believe".
Sheesh!
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UnderGrace
Guest
I agree sometimes one has to learn before they can make it personal.
Other times "intellectual assent" as people like to say are people who have not been told the full gospel or the correct gospel.
Brother, calling names is not going to change what the scriptures say.
There is a reason Paul calls it the obedience of faith.
- the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
No amount of scripture is going to somehow undo what Romans 2:6-8 says, because all born again Christians will stand before our King on the Day of Judgement to be Judged according to our deeds.
Don’t you understand that?
Hasn’t anyone ever told you that before?
It’s simply the truth.
All the scriptures you can come up with in all the Bible will not change this irrefutable, undeniable truth.
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
again
- For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11
- Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
JPT
I'm saying the work was complete when we received for some it may have came easy but I used think most religion was bunk and preachers were liars.
I met some Christians that studied the Bible and sang under a tree in a park most every evening. I hadn't been to a church in 9 years except for weddings funeral and family obligations. I thought the Christians I met there were cool and the Bible was interesting. Reading was always a chore but I did it just to fit in. Little did I realize it would change my life.