Not By Works

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

If the Tribulation period is 'the time of Jacobs troubles" then what are Gentiles doing in it? Jacob gots nothing to do with my race.

 

[dcontroversal]

Acts 14:22 (KJV)
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.




<><.🕆.><>

I hope both of you do not mind my dropping in, to share my interpretation of the TERMS both of you are using. I maybe able to shed some light on the disagreement, but it will certainly will help to relieve my BOREDOM. LOL

DC, you are right about the difference in Terms.

But you overlooked part of the explanation that is CRITICAL for the Correct Interpretation:

Tribulation - Can be used to describe TRYING TIMES among GOD's People (O.T. and N.T.) whether by Persecution, Wars, Plagues, Unjust Rulers, etc.

Great Tribulation - is a term for the LAST YEARS of man's rule on earth, the 70th Week of Daniel, just Before CHRIST RETURNS to Set Up His Kingdom, effecting the Tribulation Saints, during their Martyrdom, which comes AFTER the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ.

WRATH - effects all Unbelievers that have REJECTED CHRIST turning instead to receive the Mark of the Beast. Fulfilling THESE PROPHESIES - Zech. 14:1-15, Rev. 6:1-17, Rev. 19:11-21, among others. WE will not BE HERE, because of this Promises: 1 Th. 5:9, and Rev. 3:10.


I have found that most heated arguments, can be a misinterpretation of TERMS the other is using. I hope the above will HELP, to keep that from happening. I serious doubt that DC is Post-Tribulation, and if that is RIGHT, then I am just in time to help resolve those terminology differences. I do not know for sure, so DC please explain your views on Post-Tribulation?

If Both of you want ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, pleases see my Thread that I start July 9, 2014, entitled:
THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

Look, I have said numerous times...I was raised in an imminent return church, taught it, believed it and defended it dogmatically until I had to study through the bible twice a year in seminary for 4 years....then after things did not jive I began a 32 year study particularly tied to the end of the age.....I do not believe the bible teaches pre trib ingathering...it teaches post tribulation pre-wrath ingathering.......that is what I believe....I have studied all three views...pre and mid do not measure up to the scriptures UNLESS WORDS ARE DENIED, EMBELLISHED, context is ignored, words are ignored etc.....

 

[calibob]

Gotta ahree with dcon..tribulation = trials..pressure= hard times

the 3 R of tribulation. 1) Get ready. 2) be ready. 3) stay ready,

 

[Jewel5712]

Look, I have said numerous times...I was raised in an imminent return church, taught it, believed it and defended it dogmatically until I jad to study through the bible twice a year in seminary for 4 years....then after things did not jive I began a 32 year study particularly tied to the end of the age.....I do not believe the bible teaches pre trib ingathering...it teaches post tribulation pre-wrath ingathering.......that is what I believe....I have studied all three views...pre and mid do not measure up to the scriptures UNLESS WORDS ARE DENIED, EMBELLISHED, context is ignored, words are ignored etc.....

Hiya d

 

[calibob]

Hiya d

I 've never heard of imminent return church. My churches have been, since saved, Evangelical Charismatic however I've read Jeramiah, ezekiel, Mathew and Revelations enough to doubt pre-trib more than the others.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hiya d

the 3 R of tribulation. 1) Get ready. 2) be ready. 3) stay ready,

Exactly......wise men see evil coming and prepare for it....!!

 

[VCO]

Look, I have said numerous times...I was raised in an imminent return church, taught it, believed it and defended it dogmatically until I had to study through the bible twice a year in seminary for 4 years....then after things did not jive I began a 32 year study particularly tied to the end of the age.....I do not believe the bible teaches pre trib ingathering...it teaches post tribulation pre-wrath ingathering.......that is what I believe....I have studied all three views...pre and mid do not measure up to the scriptures UNLESS WORDS ARE DENIED, EMBELLISHED, context is ignored, words are ignored etc.....

I think you owe it to yourself to study it from a Jewish Perspective, my thread will explain it to you, in a way you have NEVER thought of before. When you see all the JEWISH insight that the LORD actually used, you will come back to the only way you can interpret the Jewish meaning of those verses.

Matthew 25:6 (ESV)
6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

 

[calibob]

Exactly......wise men see evil coming and prepare for it....!!

I still think the International oil syndicates are by far the most evil group of men on the planet today. They don't care about their own decendents and have the people fighting amongst ourselves like Roosters at a cockfight.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think you owe it to yourself to study it from a Jewish Perspective, my thread will explain it to you, in a way you have NEVER thought of before. When you see all the JEWISH insight that the LORD actually used, you will come back to the only way you can interpret the Jewish meaning of those verses.

Matthew 25:6 (ESV)
6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

No offense, but I study it God's way and in Matthew, Mark and Luke, Revelation Thessalonians etc. he is addressing CHURCHES made up of BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES...thanks anyway bro....

 

[VCO]

No offense, but I study it God's way and in Matthew, Mark and Luke, Revelation Thessalonians etc. he is addressing CHURCHES made up of BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES...thanks anyway bro....

No, you are not hearing me correctly. There is a lot of verses that IF you do not first study the Jewish Wedding Customs, you will misinterpret the Verses. I challenge you, read my study, and if you can say you have not learned something new at the end, I will be surprised.

For example the Line that HE QUOTED,

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
3 If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.

That announcement was said by Every Jewish Bridegroom for 3000 years, before HE would leave the Old Dwelling place of the Bride, and go and not return until the new dwelling place for the Bride was finished and approved by the Father. The Betrothal was NONE Verbal. The Betrothal Cup is KNOW as the Third Cup of the Passover. Jesus passed it to the Disciples the Foundation of the Church. IF THEY DRANK from that cup, they were accepting the Betrothal Proposal. He is FOLLOWING THE JEWISH TRADITIONS FOR CHOOSING His Bride, and HE will continue.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry....I cannot take two different words, with different definitions, with different applications and equate them to the same thing.........the announced wrath of God is at the 7th trump...end of story bro!

I am sorry, But to me that is just trying to excuse a belief. Son of God and Son of Man both representy christ. There are amny other examples.

if you can read revelations and see the horrors and not think that is part of Gods wrath. Something is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I no longer buy the 3.5 years of peace ...Daniel tells us there is exactly 1335 days left, the first 1185 days was the ministry of Jesus unto the Jews, they rejected as a whole and will endure the last 1335 days....30 days of peace, 1260 of tribulation, 45 of wrath.....

My stance based upon math and study haha

Jesus tld the Jews to run AFTER the abomination of desolation. Not before. Compaired to the last 3.5. No matter what we think, there is some sort of peace (Israel is allowed to sacrifice in their temple, that some sort of peace)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People have A LOT of habitual sins..sins of quick temper..impatience..drinking too much..smoking etc..pre marital sex...all things that some christiams do and a bunch more..

Yes, we all have our weakness.. If not for grace we would all be doomed. This is not excusing sin, This is admitting we have a problem.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@eternally-gratefull

Your quote

"disagree, John is stating a fact. Whoever is born of God can not live in habitual, ongoing sin. And John is correct. A Child of God can not live as the world and continue in it, Even the prodigal son was taken to his knees so he had to return. God chastens those who are his."

Christians SHOULDNT live in habitual sin but the word "cant" isnt correct...they CAN but they SHOULDNT

John said they can’t I have to go with john on this one.

Again, I am not talking about bessetting sin, I am talking about a life of sin (noun, singular) the world lives in sin because it does not know God. A child of God can not live in sin because he has been born of God. This does not mean the child can not sin, or be habitually enslaved by a particular sin.

Again, I think we have a minsunderstadning based on how we use the word sin as used by john.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts 14:22 (KJV)
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.




<><.🕆.><>

I hope both of you do not mind my dropping in, to share my interpretation of the TERMS both of you are using. I maybe able to shed some light on the disagreement, but it will certainly will help to relieve my BOREDOM. LOL

DC, you are right about the difference in Terms.

But you overlooked part of the explanation that is CRITICAL for the Correct Interpretation:

Tribulation - Can be used to describe TRYING TIMES among GOD's People (O.T. and N.T.) whether by Persecution, Wars, Plagues, Unjust Rulers, etc.

Great Tribulation - is a term for the LAST YEARS of man's rule on earth, the 70th Week of Daniel, just Before CHRIST RETURNS to Set Up His Kingdom, effecting the Tribulation Saints, during their Martyrdom, which comes AFTER the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ.

WRATH - effects all Unbelievers that have REJECTED CHRIST turning instead to receive the Mark of the Beast. Fulfilling THESE PROPHESIES - Zech. 14:1-15, Rev. 6:1-17, Rev. 19:11-21, among others. WE will not BE HERE, because of this Promises: 1 Th. 5:9, and Rev. 3:10.


I have found that most heated arguments, can be a misinterpretation of TERMS the other is using. I hope the above will HELP, to keep that from happening. I serious doubt that DC is Post-Tribulation, and if that is RIGHT, then I am just in time to help resolve those terminology differences. I do not know for sure, so DC please explain your views on Post-Tribulation?

If Both of you want ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, pleases see my Thread that I start July 9, 2014, entitled:
THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

Thanks, I hope I am not being heated. I pray I am just having a discussion with a brother.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gotta ahree with dcon..tribulation = trials..pressure= hard times

Tribulation means distress. What causes the distress? Gods wrath will cause distresws for many people. The world will hate Gods people even more. In fact the book we are discussing says that satan since he can not hurt israel will even cause greater tribulation on her children (non jewish believers, or the ekklesia of that day)

Again, In the OT, we see many examples. Gods wrath was poured out on Jerusalem by the means of the babylonian army, This caused great tribulation for the jews. However, as jesus said, that tribulation will pale in comparison to the great tribulation following the abomination f desolation spoken of by daniel. In fact. That tribulation will be so severe, all live on earth will be threatened, causeing christ to return before the human race makes itself extinct.

 

[TruthTalk]

Thanks, I hope I am not being heated. I pray I am just having a discussion with a brother.

Hi E-g, I am praying for the same thing, lots of Phileo and Agape love.

Concerning the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church, how long after the Church is rapture'd does Jesus set up His Millennial Kingdom, does this happen shortly after the rapture or maybe the bible is silent about the beginning of Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

What I am trying to understand is what are Christians doing after the rapture takes place....possibly the Marriage Supper of the Lamb or will that take place on earth after the Great Tribulation...

1Corinthians15:51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed

1Thessalonians4:15-18
15) According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18) Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi E-g, I am praying for the same thing, lots of Phileo and Agape love.

Concerning the Second Coming and the Rapture of the Church, how long after the Church is rapture'd does Jesus set up His Millennial Kingdom, does this happen shortly after the rapture or maybe the bible is silent about the beginning of Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

What I am trying to understand is what are Christians doing after the rapture takes place....possibly the Marriage Supper of the Lamb or will that take place on earth after the Great Tribulation...

1Corinthians15:51

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed​

1Thessalonians4:15-18

15) According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18) Therefore encourage one another with these words.
​

What you have odne is just show part of the issue which causes me to be unable to accept post trib.

For post trib to be true

1. The rapture must happen, the marraige and 1 cor judgment (gold silver stones etc etc) and then immediately be returned to help Jesus rule in his kingdom. (Not to mention I am sure Jesus will give us all our positions and jobs and we will have to learn what our jobs and responsibilities will be whch will take some time.)
2. Then, Since all believers have been raptured, and all who took the mark are killed. Jesus is ruling a world that has no humans left. So who “endured to the end” to have their lives spared and enter the kingdom while being blessed to witness the return of the lamb?

When does the rapture happen? I do not know 100%, but I think we can rule out some things..

 

[Chester]

LOL! I thought this was the "Not By Works" thread . . . . now we are started on prophecy . . . . ..

Let's get it back on track . . .

There is no verse in the Bible that ____________________________________ - now I am out of here running for cover . . . LOL!

 

[TruthTalk]

What you have odne is just show part of the issue which causes me to be unable to accept post trib.

For post trib to be true

1. The rapture must happen, the marraige and 1 cor judgment (gold silver stones etc etc) and then immediately be returned to help Jesus rule in his kingdom. (Not to mention I am sure Jesus will give us all our positions and jobs and we will have to learn what our jobs and responsibilities will be whch will take some time.)
2. Then, Since all believers have been raptured, and all who took the mark are killed. Jesus is ruling a world that has no humans left. So who “endured to the end” to have their lives spared and enter the kingdom while being blessed to witness the return of the lamb?

When does the rapture happen? I do not know 100%, but I think we can rule out some things..

Thank you E-g for your answer - "For post tribulation rapture to be true" I take it you are a pre-tribulation rapture guy from the way you answered my question. I do not have a position as yet. But what does raise more questions for me is, how on earth are the huge amounts of Christians going to get there assignments to serve our God in the Millennial Kingdom. It will take years to do that wouldn't you think?

God bless!

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