Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I can tell you that Christianity has been coddled to death.....people are easily offended, cannot deal with a little scriptural heat or banter, will dish out accusations, and do the self same stuff they accuse other of while whining and crying foul....

Just wait till the heads start coming off for the cause of Christ......Everyone on here who is easily offended needs to take a few hours and watch a few videos of "Christians" who refuse to deny Jesus having their throats slit or heads cut off or being burnt to death or hung for Christ........if we cannot handle a little heat for our stance or belief we will fold when the rubber really meets the road.

 

[Hizikyah]

My post was valid.....people who see the hard sword play automatically say stuff like that and my points are valid....do me a favor....do not accuse me again serious.....You play this harp all the time and this is a war we are in....this is not tiddly winks and afternoon tea.....I have watched you accuse and or twist or misrepresent what people say on a regular basis.....what does your law keeping say about that?

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-2036.html#post3316805

what does your law keeping say about that?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no one any matter except to love one another, for he who loves another has filled the Torah. For this, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet, and if there is any other (#G2087 ) command, it is summed up ( #G346 ) up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no evil to a neighbor. Therefore, love is completion of the Torah."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]any”is word #G2087 – heteros; 1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one[/FONT]

 

[gb9]

It is in italics...

Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets

Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”


1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."


(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."


1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

not 1 mainline translation says " intent " . so I am supposed to believe that the all those translations are wrong, but the Hebrew roots cult gets it right. no, you are wrong , i'll go with truth, not deception.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

I can tell you that Christianity has been coddled to death.....people are easily offended, cannot deal with a little scriptural heat or banter, will dish out accusations, and do the self same stuff they accuse other of while whining and crying foul....

Just wait till the heads start coming off for the cause of Christ......Everyone on here who is easily offended needs to take a few hours and watch a few videos of "Christians" who refuse to deny Jesus having their throats slit or heads cut off or being burnt to death or hung for Christ........if we cannot handle a little heat for our stance or belief we will fold when the rubber really meets the road.

Can you say a great falling away?
But, most believe they will not be here, so they will ignore what you so accurately stated will soon come to past.

 

[preacher4truth]

not 1 mainline translation says " intent " . so I am supposed to believe that the all those translations are wrong, but the Hebrew roots cult gets it right. no, you are wrong , i'll go with truth, not deception.

2 Peter 3:16?

 

[Hizikyah]

not 1 mainline translation says " intent " . so I am supposed to believe that the all those translations are wrong, but the Hebrew roots cult gets it right. no, you are wrong , i'll go with truth, not deception.

OK will you please give me the meaning of the verse, if I am mistaken, you would not just tell me im wrong and cult, but you would show me the truth right?

SO what does it really mean?

 

[preacher4truth]

I can tell you that Christianity has been coddled to death.....people are easily offended, cannot deal with a little scriptural heat or banter, will dish out accusations, and do the self same stuff they accuse other of while whining and crying foul....

Just wait till the heads start coming off for the cause of Christ......Everyone on here who is easily offended needs to take a few hours and watch a few videos of "Christians" who refuse to deny Jesus having their throats slit or heads cut off or being burnt to death or hung for Christ........if we cannot handle a little heat for our stance or belief we will fold when the rubber really meets the road.

Many are just politically correct and apply that ideology to their misapplication of Scripture and call it "Christianity."

 

[dcontroversal]

Can you say a great falling away?
But, most believe they will not be here, so they will ignore what you so accurately stated will soon come to past.

I hear that for sure.....bad day coming for coddle Christianity.........most are oblivious......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Many are just politically correct and apply that ideology to their misapplication of Scripture and call it "Christianity."

I agree totally........for sure!

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Peter 3:16?

Interesting verse, lets read the verses before and after it also;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

 

[gb9]

OK will you please give me the meaning of the verse, if I am mistaken, you would not just tell me im wrong and cult, but you would show me the truth right?

SO what does it really mean?

in context, Jesus had just stated the Golden Rule- do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christ said the most important commands were love the Lord with all you strength , etc... and love your neighbor as yourself. so, if you do unto others the way you want them to do to you, this is what the Law was about- obey and worship God, and be kind respectful and helpful to others.

that is why the amp. Bible correctly says the essence of the Law.

nothing about keeping the letter of the law,

 

[Hizikyah]

OK I want to make sure I have this right... So I quote this verse, and say, "the (intent of the) Law" is to " all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them"

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

You reply; "garbage/deception"

negative. the little phrase you slid in there ( the intent of ) is NOT what that verse says. not one main translation says anything like this. the essence of the Law and the intent of the profits.

nice try at Hebrew roots garbage/deception . but one cannot add intent that is not there.

Then I ask you the true meaning...

in context, Jesus had just stated the Golden Rule- do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christ said the most important commands were love the Lord with all you strength , etc... and love your neighbor as yourself. so, if you do unto others the way you want them to do to you, this is what the Law was about- obey and worship God, and be kind respectful and helpful to others.

that is why the amp. Bible correctly says the essence of the Law.

nothing about keeping the letter of the law, but living by the intent of it.

You say the true meaning is;

the amp. Bible correctly says the essence of the Law.

nothing about keeping the letter of the law, but living by the intent of it.

Seems like the exact same thing I said and you told me it was "garbage/deception"

hmmmmm....

 

[MattforJesus]

For people who say that it is impossible for them to fall they have to explain the warnings in the Bible concerning this,for why would there be warnings if it were impossible to fall,and this goes for people who were saved,and received the Spirit,which if a person receives the Spirit they would have to be saved at that point,for nobody receives the Spirit unless they are saved.

That is why the Bible says they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning,but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,because they did not receive the Spirit,but a person that received the Spirit has been saved.

So why the warnings to those that have been saved receiving the Spirit.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Why the warnings,and they can go astray after receiving the Spirit,and it has to do with a sin condition,for how can they fall victim to that if they received the Spirit,for a person is saved at the point of receiving the Spirit,for no one receives the Spirit unless they are saved,so it obvious that someone that is saved can falter.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

They want to take away the responsibility that is placed upon them to make the right choices,and put it on Christ.

Jesus saved us,and we receive the Spirit,then the responsibility is placed on is to do what is right,for we still have a choice between good and evil,and the Spirit will not twist our arm to live for God.

So what is the purpose of them wanting to take away the responsibility that is placed on them.

That is the question.

 

[Hizikyah]

in context, Jesus had just stated the Golden Rule- do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christ said the most important commands were love the Lord with all you strength , etc... and love your neighbor as yourself. so, if you do unto others the way you want them to do to you, this is what the Law was about- obey and worship God, and be kind respectful and helpful to others.

that is why the amp. Bible correctly says the essence of the Law.

nothing about keeping the letter of the law,

LOL you edited it out ofyour post?

What? Looks like that comma stayed behind as a bit of evidence, lol

 

[gb9]

LOL you edited it out ofyour post?

What? Looks like that comma stayed behind as a bit of evidence, lol

actually, it can mean intent, but since no translation says " intent ", neither should be. and I know you have a law-keeping for salvation theology, so I have a pretty good idea of where you were going to attempt to take it.

but, yes, it can mean intent, but essence is the better word.

 

[Hizikyah]

actually, it can mean intent, but since no translation says " intent ", neither should be. and I know you have a law-keeping for salvation theology, so I have a pretty good idea of where you were going to attempt to take it.

but, yes, it can mean intent, but essence is the better word.

SO it's not garbage/deception for me to use the word intent rather than essence? or do your pre concieved notions of me make it garbage/deception still?

 

[VCO]

There is an awesome truth hidden in this VCO. I challenge you to look at the greek at the word white, and then look at linen in the OT. The priests wore linen undergarments and it shows an awesome truth that correlates to this thread. Not by works, but by the Spirit of God.

That's if you like to study this way. Not giving an order. Not that I could order anyone to do anything. Just... I get excited about revelation seen in the words of scripture.

Oh I am very famililiar with the symbolisms in the White Garments. I believe all the Saints Saved by the blood of Lamb will wear White Garments. In fact the Tribulation Saint too, get the same white garment, therefore the actual Wedding Ceremony will not start until the LAST Martyred TRIBULATION Saint arrives UNDER THE ALTAR. Why do you think the Entrance Portal to HEAVEN is Under the Altar.


Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.

ANSWER:

Exodus 29:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Slaughter the bull before the LORD at the entrance to the tent of meeting.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Take some of the bull’s blood and apply ⌊it⌋ to the horns of the altar with your finger; then pour out all the ⌊rest⌋ of the blood at the base of the altar.

BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE CHRIST OUR HIGH PRIEST WOULD HAVE POURED OUT HIS BLOOD.

This artist did not read the verse thoroughly did he? It is to be put on the horns with the High Priest's finger, not a paint brush.

 

[gb9]

SO it's not garbage/deception for me to use the word intent rather than essence? or do your pre concieved notions of me make it garbage/deception still?

the main line translations do not use the word intent. that is my point. and, I have many exchanges with you over the years.
so it is not pre-conceived notions, it is memory. now, if you have changed your beliefs about law-keeping for salvation, then I apologize.

if you still think that one must keep the Torah to be saved, when gentiles were never under it, then I stand by my Hebrew roots opinion.

 

[Hizikyah]

the main line translations do not use the word intent. that is my point. and, I have many exchanges with you over the years.
so it is not pre-conceived notions, it is memory. now, if you have changed your beliefs about law-keeping for salvation, then I apologize.

if you still think that one must keep the Torah to be saved, when gentiles were never under it, then I stand by my Hebrew roots opinion.

To me it is of no consequence of main line translations use the word intent or not, what matters to me that a translation is true to the meaning and intent of the original language. and none will ener the kingdom with out Yah's mercy and doing His will; because true faith obeys, and please it is the word it's not my opinion;

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

This is what Yahshua/Jesus says in the final written message to mankind, called the Revelation of Yahshua/Jesus;

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

This is why Paul said;

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!"

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

because he who has been sealed by Yah departs from lawlessness;
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] (seal the greek word sphragis, "that which the seal attests, the proof")[/FONT]

2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the Foundation of YHWH stands sure, having this seal: YHWH knows those who are His, because everyone who reverences the Name of YHWH departs from iniquity."

“iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

"iniquity" is: #G458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

and because of lawlessness love grows cold according the the Messiah;

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

 

[Hizikyah]

I have a question for everyone, if I believe this verse am I considered to be "justified by works"

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."[/FONT]