Not By Works

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Studyman said:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


I understand how difficult it is to be corrected, most men are just too prideful to allow God's Word to humble them.

But to say that Paul isn't saying that the righteousness of God is revealed to us from "Within" the Gospel of Christ is to completely ignore this and many other scriptures of the Bible.

But I understand if you can't accept this Biblical truth, church tradition is a powerful thing.
Click to expand...


since you mentioned correction, I will correct you again. Romans 1- Paul said " through the profits, in the Holy Scripture ". Paul was speaking of the profits speaking of the coming of Jesus. Paul was not referring to the O.T. as the Gospel. he was not pointing to the Torah.

also, v.8 Paul says he is serving in the Gospel of His Son. again pointing to Jesus, not the O.T.

you have been corrected. will you receive it?
 
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Studyman said:
It doesn't matter what Translation you use. I know it is popular to translation shop to find a Bible that justifies current lifestyles. But God, in His infinite wisdom, is able for His truth to revealed in them all.

I have amended the post above to reflect the translations you like to use.


. . .
Click to expand...

I stopped at TEN Translations, that said FAITH IN CHRIST, instead of your KJV that said FAITH OF CHRIST. If you want me to find more, I certainly can do that. My point was the overwhelming vast majority of actual TRANSLATIONS from the GREEK, do say FAITH IN CHRIST. I see you want to ignore the fact that the Scriptures actually imply that FAITH is part of the FREE GIFT OF SALVATION THAT IS PURELY BY THE GRACE OF GOD.

GRACE = Receiving what you do not deserve and cannot earn.

MERCY = Not receiving what you do deserve, and cannot pay for yourself.
 
VCO said:
Then you and I are in agreement.

I will tell you a true story of something that happened to me and my wife. Back in the earlier 80's, when we were searching for a very good Bible Teaching Church, in our town, the third largest in Nebraska, we tried a Baptist Church one Sunday morning. The Pastor had a guest Missionary from Africa give the Sermon. That Missionary's closing statement of his sermon was literally: "The reason I serve the LORD, is I want the biggest, fanciest Manson on the Street of Gold. I don't want to get stuck with a shack out back on the Crystal River." My mouth dropped open, HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHY WE SERVE GOD. We serve, because we LOVE HIM. As we walked to car, knowing we would not be back, I told my wife, "I don't care if he gives me that shack on the River, I just want to be there with HIM, because I love HIM."
Click to expand...

While I understand your stance and opposition to that statement which seemed a little off kilter....Paul did say run that you may obtain......while our motivation should be love for sure 1st Corinthians 13....it is not wrong to desire more....remember David....God told David "I gave you this and this and this<--paraphrasing" and if you had wanted more...all you would have had to do is ask and I would have given...... ;)
 
dcontroversal said:
While I understand your stance and opposition to that statement which seemed a little off kilter....Paul did say run that you may obtain......while our motivation should be love for sure 1st Corinthians 13....it is not wrong to desire more....remember David....God told David "I gave you this and this and this<--paraphrasing" and if you had wanted more...all you would have had to do is ask and I would have given...... ;)
Click to expand...

BUT WHAT THEY LEAVE OUT THAT I OPPOSE, IS THE MOTIVE FOR SERVING HIM, OR DOING GOOD WORKS TO Manipulate GOD into giving them MORE, like they think GOD is a Magic Genie. If the motive IS NOT LOVE FOR HIM, it is nothing more than filthy rags, or wood, hay and stubble. That missionary Served the LORD, supposedly, ONLY TO TRY TO MAKE GOD GIVE HIM GREAT GAIN IN HEAVEN. What's He going to do IF HE EVEN GETS TO HEAVEN, arrogantly try to tell GOD, "YOU OWE ME GOD, the biggest fanciest Mansion on the Street of GOLD." Nothing in his sermon indicated HE LOVED THE LORD. There is something inherently wrong with GREED being the motive for serving the LORD.
 
gb9 said:
since you mentioned correction, I will correct you again. Romans 1- Paul said "through the profits, in the Holy Scripture." Paul was speaking of the profits speaking of the coming of Jesus. Paul was not referring to the O.T. as the Gospel. he was not pointing to the Torah.

also, v.8 Paul says he is serving in the Gospel of His Son. again pointing to Jesus, not the O.T.

you have been corrected. will you receive it?
Click to expand...

Hi gb9, I'm teachable and yes you have the correct Gospel.

Luke:24:27
"And beginning with "Moses and all the Prophet", he explained to them what was said in "all the Scriptures concerning himself."
The clear reading of Rom1:16,17,

16) "the gospel of Christ = the power of God = unto salvation = to everyone who believes."

17) "For 'therein' is the righteousness of God revealed = the just shall live by faith." Romans1:16,17

As proof in the statement below, doing back flips and scripture twisting to prove your false gospel is wrong and then to add insults to a false gospel is shameful. This is the reason for adding people to "Ignore", listening to lies day after day is wrong.

....................................................................................................................................

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Studyman
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The insults:

I understand how difficult it is to be corrected, most men are just too prideful to allow God's Word to humble them.

But to say that Paul isn't saying that the righteousness of God is revealed to us from "Within" the Gospel of Christ is to completely ignore this and many other scriptures of the Bible.

But I understand if you can't accept this Biblical truth, church tradition is a powerful thing.
 
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First you said that my post# 1614 which is purely scriptures have no bearing on this thread…

Posted by dcontroversial...post# 1615

I hear blah, blah, blah...........and your last post 1614 has no bearing on this thread.........BABY Christians you say......You should try the truth instead of your works.....faith in Jesus will take you a whole lot further than your works based pseudo religion.


And now you attack another poster with the same style of bullying…


Posted by dcontroversial...

BLAH blah blah LAWYER/PHARISEE.......





TO BELIEVE GOD IS TO OBEY HIM.

Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not SUBMIT to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who DISOBEYED? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their UNBELIEF.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.”

1 John 2:5-6 But if anyone OBEYS his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: WHOEVER CLAIMS TO LIVE IN HIM MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

James 2:22,24,26 You see that his FAITH and his ACTIONS were WORKING TOGETHER , and his faith was made complete by what he did. YOU SEE THAT A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED BY WHAT HE DOES AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE. As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO.

1 Corinthians 13:2,13 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I AM NOTHING. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the GREATEST of these IS LOVE.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. THIS IS LOVE FOR GOD: TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS (LOVE) A RIGHT THING TO DO OR NOT?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

Romans 6:16,19,22-23 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:14-18 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
 
The blind, deaf and dumb

If you fill your mind with simple dismissals of another, their words and intent, even when written
in scripture, you are not listening to anyone but your own ideas about God.

We can all reach this place, because we are human, limited by our own minds which literally define
everything we experience. It comes as a shock, to realise, all my experiences are the construct
of my mind interpreting the world around me and presenting it to me. The better the model the better
I do and relate.

It is why, and I emphasise why, we need to listen to everyone and take note of their position,
and look into it honestly.

What speaks to me most is the openness of the heart, its sensitivity, the balance of emotions,
purity and integrity that is present.

So it is obvious the heart and the problem when someone stoops to saying
"blah, blah, blah" and using labels.

We are looking for Christ and a deeper walk with Him, and I do not see Him
responding like this to anything, because its intent is insult, to cause anger and
to provoke. If these believers wish to dismiss Christ like this, they have no claim
to know Him or His word.

Look at the heart. How do we change? What is the work of the Holy Spirit within us?
It is to teach us to see in love, to walk in love and to do acts of love towards others.

People are changed because of this witness. God changes us because of His work of
love through the cross, and we grow to maturity as we learn how to respond in love.

This is actually our theme, in everything we do, to bring glory to the Father and His son.
 
Seohce said:
First you said that my post# 1614 which is purely scriptures have no bearing on this thread…

Posted by dcontroversial...post# 1615

I hear blah, blah, blah...........and your last post 1614 has no bearing on this thread.........BABY Christians you say......You should try the truth instead of your works.....faith in Jesus will take you a whole lot further than your works based pseudo religion.


And now you attack another poster with the same style of bullying…


Posted by dcontroversial...

BLAH blah blah LAWYER/PHARISEE.......





TO BELIEVE GOD IS TO OBEY HIM.

Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not SUBMIT to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who DISOBEYED? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their UNBELIEF.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.”

1 John 2:5-6 But if anyone OBEYS his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: WHOEVER CLAIMS TO LIVE IN HIM MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

James 2:22,24,26 You see that his FAITH and his ACTIONS were WORKING TOGETHER , and his faith was made complete by what he did. YOU SEE THAT A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED BY WHAT HE DOES AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE. As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO.

1 Corinthians 13:2,13 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I AM NOTHING. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the GREATEST of these IS LOVE.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. THIS IS LOVE FOR GOD: TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS (LOVE) A RIGHT THING TO DO OR NOT?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

Romans 6:16,19,22-23 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:14-18 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Click to expand...

Thats the problem with you people. You think we are teaching it is ok to sin all you want, and we do not have to be obedient, everything will be ok. When it is not true.

Then you wonder why people say things they do, it gets old being told you believe or teach things you do not. Because you all are not willing to listen. You think you know so you continue to blab Yadira yardage Yadira and tell us things you think we need to know. Which we already know.

True faith works, False faith does not. We love because God loved us. We (DC, GB9, Truthtalk and many others) believe and teach this, yet we continue to get lawyers scold us for not teaching this.

News flash.

True faith works, True faith obeyed, NOT TO GET or KEEP or MAINTAIN salvation./ but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

Any questions??
 
Yeah, I gotta question for ya.. I just woke up, so:


. Where's My Coffee (2).jpg


Laughing.png


eternally-gratefull said:
Thats the problem with you people. You think we are teaching it is ok to sin all you want, and we do not have to be obedient, everything will be ok. When it is not true.

Then you wonder why people say things they do, it gets old being told you believe or teach things you do not. Because you all are not willing to listen. You think you know so you continue to blab Yadira yardage Yadira and tell us things you think we need to know. Which we already know.

True faith works, False faith does not. We love because God loved us. We (DC, GB9, Truthtalk and many others) believe and teach this, yet we continue to get lawyers scold us for not teaching this.

News flash.

True faith works, True faith obeyed, NOT TO GET or KEEP or MAINTAIN salvation./ but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

Any questions??
Click to expand...
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Thats the problem with you people. You think we are teaching it is ok to sin all you want, and we do not have to be obedient, everything will be ok. When it is not true.

Then you wonder why people say things they do, it gets old being told you believe or teach things you do not. Because you all are not willing to listen. You think you know so you continue to blab Yadira yardage Yadira and tell us things you think we need to know. Which we already know.

True faith works, False faith does not. We love because God loved us. We (DC, GB9, Truthtalk and many others) believe and teach this, yet we continue to get lawyers scold us for not teaching this.

News flash.

True faith works, True faith obeyed, NOT TO GET or KEEP or MAINTAIN salvation./ but BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED.

Any questions??
Click to expand...

I would like to make an observation here.
This member believes they have arrived and need to know nothing more.
Sin is not an issue to them, and when people point out about sin, it is dismissed with
it is already dealt with.

It is like someone untouchable. Guilt, a desire to confess and get right with people or
even see that we need to grow and mature in the walk of love is missing.

It is always just this polarisation into groups, we and you. But we are just individual followers
of Christ who are part of the body. The rest are the lost. As followers we can but bring testimony
to encourage others to walk deeper and more fully, in faith and trust of our great Lord and Saviour.

Now the spirit at work in some will try and disown me from my Lord, Jesus Christ, which speaks more
about their hearts than any truth they might have. A wolf desires to destroy the love we have for
our Lord, not encourage it. So know them by their fruit and intent.

So be encouraged, for great is our Lord and the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts, that nothing can
separate us from the love of Christ.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8:37-39
 
PeterJens said:
I would like to make an observation here.
This member believes they have arrived and need to know nothing more.
Sin is not an issue to them, and when people point out about sin, it is dismissed with
it is already dealt with.

It is like someone untouchable. Guilt, a desire to confess and get right with people or
even see that we need to grow and mature in the walk of love is missing.

It is always just this polarisation into groups, we and you. But we are just individual followers
of Christ who are part of the body. The rest are the lost. As followers we can but bring testimony
to encourage others to walk deeper and more fully, in faith and trust of our great Lord and Saviour.

Now the spirit at work in some will try and disown me from my Lord, Jesus Christ, which speaks more
about their hearts than any truth they might have. A wolf desires to destroy the love we have for
our Lord, not encourage it. So know them by their fruit and intent.

So be encouraged, for great is our Lord and the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts, that nothing can
separate us from the love of Christ.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8:37-39
Click to expand...

and this member does not recognize the Biblical definition of sin, missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

so, as a result, peter thinks he does not sin. peter is wrong, no one is sinless.
 
gb9 said:
and this member does not recognize the Biblical definition of sin, missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

so, as a result, peter thinks he does not sin. peter is wrong, no one is sinless.
Click to expand...

Here is the truth definition of unbelief.
"no one is sinless"

What they actually mean is no one is forgiven and walking in righteousness, holiness, and purity.

Now stop what you are thinking for a moment.
When is a dish clean? When it is cleaned. It itself is neutral. It can be defiled and be made unholy.
God taught people this over generations through temple sacrifice and purification rituals.

Once made Holy, it is Holy. So just looking at something does not define its state. You need to know
what has defiled it, and what has made it clean.

Jesus has made us clean. So we are clean, righteous and holy.
It is why Paul talks about lifting holy hands

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.
1 Tim 2:8

So my friends, this believer is not arguing about being sinless but about does Christ make us
Holy. And I declare He does, as Paul describes.

How could Peter say this

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:15-16

So the question is not is this possible, but how is it possible and what defiles us in our lives.
We are a Holy people called to walk in Gods ways.

To not believe this, is to walk in unbelief and to deny what the cross has done for us.
Remember holiness and perfection is about how God sees us, what He has done, and
who He has made us.

And I know all too well the standard God has given us and I know in the Holy Spirit,
reborn, renewed and empowered we can walk in this love.

On the question of have I sinned in the past, yes. The question of what sins or no sins
will I commit in the future, I am in the Lords hands.

It is like asking a cyclist when will they fall off their bicycle. They will not say never, but
they can say they have not fallen off for a long time.

gb9 is a legalist, full of condemnation and pessimism, dressed up as being real.
The enemy wears the same clothes and wishes to tear down in the same way.

Are you people of faith walking in love, or doomed to being lost in the slavery of sin?
 
As a side note, some of the contributors here hate anything that talks about walking righteously
because they believe this is just legalism, full of hypocracy, evil and hatred.

Some go as far as to heap abuse on people who shine like a light, as if they are the devil himself.

What this is speaking to is their legalistic past and hatred and blame for experiences in the church
which they blame for their guilt and suffering over many years and bad handling and problems that
occurred.

But the real issue is actually the lack of forgiveness in their hearts and the root of bitterness that
resides there and is expressed in their language and intent. Now I know this all myself, because it
has equally been a temptation for me. Whenever you are hurt, or disappointed, it is easy to turn
the anger on blame on the other party rather than take responsibility for presentation, intention and
outcome. Get this right for the right situation and the right outcome will result. It is just a lot harder
than you could ever imagine.

Just take a moment. The creator of the universe, had to create Israel, walk it through all its ups
and downs, leading to Jerusalem, the temple and finally Jesus. And even after all this deal with the
church and its ups and downs, its emphasis etc. But He knows love is the seed, through His word,
that will bring the fruit into the Kingdom. Our calling is to see His will and ways, and walk in them.
 
PeterJens said:
The blind, deaf and dumb

If you fill your mind with simple dismissals of another, their words and intent, even when written
in scripture, you are not listening to anyone but your own ideas about God.

We can all reach this place, because we are human, limited by our own minds which literally define
everything we experience. It comes as a shock, to realise, all my experiences are the construct
of my mind interpreting the world around me and presenting it to me. The better the model the better
I do and relate.

It is why, and I emphasise why, we need to listen to everyone and take note of their position,
and look into it honestly.

What speaks to me most is the openness of the heart, its sensitivity, the balance of emotions,
purity and integrity that is present.

So it is obvious the heart and the problem when someone stoops to saying
"blah, blah, blah" and using labels.

We are looking for Christ and a deeper walk with Him, and I do not see Him
responding like this to anything, because its intent is insult, to cause anger and
to provoke. If these believers wish to dismiss Christ like this, they have no claim
to know Him or His word.

Look at the heart. How do we change? What is the work of the Holy Spirit within us?
It is to teach us to see in love, to walk in love and to do acts of love towards others.

People are changed because of this witness. God changes us because of His work of
love through the cross, and we grow to maturity as we learn how to respond in love.

This is actually our theme, in everything we do, to bring glory to the Father and His son.
Click to expand...


It would appear you are offering dead works coming from a dead faith and calling that grace as those in Hebrews 6?

Why would we trust that does not apply to yourself? Whats different about your righteousness ?

Why are you any different than the person in Mathew 7 who offered wonderful works and Christ said depart from me you who work inquity? What your take on those two portions of scripture?

What is the wage of one sin?
 
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VCO said:
BUT WHAT THEY LEAVE OUT THAT I OPPOSE, IS THE MOTIVE FOR SERVING HIM, OR DOING GOOD WORKS TO Manipulate GOD into giving them MORE, like they think GOD is a Magic Genie. If the motive IS NOT LOVE FOR HIM, it is nothing more than filthy rags, or wood, hay and stubble. That missionary Served the LORD, supposedly, ONLY TO TRY TO MAKE GOD GIVE HIM GREAT GAIN IN HEAVEN. What's He going to do IF HE EVEN GETS TO HEAVEN, arrogantly try to tell GOD, "YOU OWE ME GOD, the biggest fanciest Mansion on the Street of GOLD." Nothing in his sermon indicated HE LOVED THE LORD. There is something inherently wrong with GREED being the motive for serving the LORD.
Click to expand...

I am fairly confident that no one manipulates God into anything....and one thing I also thought of that I almost added was the simple fact that just because some missionary preached an off the wall sermon does not mean that the church itself was bad.....I have personally seen men preach sermons that made me cringe in my seat while disagreeing with everything they said in good, solid churches during a revival or even by a visiting missionary.....I seen a missionary from Africa who could not even find the books of the bible he was preaching out of and had to look them up in the front of his bible.....yet the church and pastor were solid in the faith......

The funny thing about the mansion deal...the word translated mansions simple means a dwelling place.......and I agree...if greed was his motive it was wrong.....or he could have just been using rhetoric out of ignorance......
 
Seohce said:
First you said that my post# 1614 which is purely scriptures have no bearing on this thread…

Posted by dcontroversial...post# 1615

I hear blah, blah, blah...........and your last post 1614 has no bearing on this thread.........BABY Christians you say......You should try the truth instead of your works.....faith in Jesus will take you a whole lot further than your works based pseudo religion.


And now you attack another poster with the same style of bullying…


Posted by dcontroversial...

BLAH blah blah LAWYER/PHARISEE.......





TO BELIEVE GOD IS TO OBEY HIM.

Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not SUBMIT to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Hebrews 3:18-19 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who DISOBEYED? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their UNBELIEF.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.”

1 John 2:5-6 But if anyone OBEYS his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: WHOEVER CLAIMS TO LIVE IN HIM MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

James 2:22,24,26 You see that his FAITH and his ACTIONS were WORKING TOGETHER , and his faith was made complete by what he did. YOU SEE THAT A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED BY WHAT HE DOES AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE. As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO.

1 Corinthians 13:2,13 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I AM NOTHING. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the GREATEST of these IS LOVE.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. THIS IS LOVE FOR GOD: TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDS (LOVE) A RIGHT THING TO DO OR NOT?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

Romans 6:16,19,22-23 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:14-18 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Click to expand...

You should learn what a real attack is and grow some skin....if you are offended by blah, blah, blah.....you are in trouble when the rubber really meets the road for believers (if you are ) in the very near future......serious!
 
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