Not By Works

[Studyman]

I'm not sure a lot of churches teach we are not to obey God's commandments as you assert.

You mean churches don't teach that Christ "freed us from God's Law"? I must respectfully disagree. Other than that, do you agree with the young ruler and his being deceived?

Thanks for the reply

 

[preacher4truth]

Lord, I am trying my hardest to remain saved. But its getting really hard.

Love,

Self Starter

Looks like we save ourselves by submitting to God? Or, if we do this we're rewarded with heaven?

 

[preacher4truth]

You mean churches don't teach that Christ "freed us from God's Law"?

No, I mean that I don't agree with you that many churches teach we are not to obey God's law as you stated.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Looks like we save ourselves by submitting to God? Or, if we do this we're rewarded with heaven?

Remember, God gives grace to those who humble themselves.

They don't need God to give them faith, they innately possess it.
They don't need God to humble themselves, because they can humble themselves.
They don't need God to give them a new heart, as the old stony one works fine.
They don't need God to give them repentance, because if they strain hard enough, they'll muster it up.

All they need for God to do is say, "Come here boy!". After that, IF they choose to come, He will save them.

Its really in their hands and volition who gets saved. God just sets back and tries REALLY hard to give them help.

 

[Hizikyah]

Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from יהוה you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”

Matthew 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world – for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers – for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Malachi 3:16-18, “Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him.”

 

[Amberlight]

It's called deception. Jesus warns of it through out the entire Bible.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


You can't say these people didn't believe in Jesus, or that they didn't think they were righteous. But one thing was missing that cost them their salvation.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Keep in mind that there is only one group of believers on the planet that fit's this description, and that is "Christianity".

satan used God's Words to deceive Eve in the very beginning, and Jesus warns it still is. We have a simple test though, given us by God through His Word. How can we truly know if we have been deceived by the "many" who "come in His name". Remember, if we are truly deceived, we won't know it.

1 John. 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

This is the perfect test to see of it is God who has written His Laws on our hearts, or if it is a spirit "disguised as an Apostle of Christ, or "Minister of Righteousness" which we were warned about so many times.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The perfect test. How did Jesus walk? What commandments did He Honor? We need look no further than Christ because.

Rom. 10: "4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Lets not get into nonsense.

In Jesus all who believe in him become righteous.

"And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe"

Guys i seen so many deceptions and errors here that it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Time for some

 

[Hizikyah]

It's Scripture, don't scold the messenger;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah: do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, “Let us hear the conclusion of the entire matter: Fear Yah and guard His commands, for this applies to all mankind! For Yah shall bring every work into right-ruling, including all that is hidden, whether good or whether evil.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 11:28, But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

Lets not get into nonsense.

In Jesus all who believe in him become righteous.

"And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe"

Guys i seen so many deceptions and errors here that it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Time for some

Thank you for the thoughtful reply

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's turn the tables on your theology: How much disobedience will He not allow?

Of course, you have to say 'all', because you are OSAS. Yet it is claimed that OSAS is not a license to sin. But if you want to draw a line for us somewhere--just as we are often asked to do so in regard to obedience--then do so.

What the cut off? How good is good enough? And how much sin will cause a person to fall below the mark and lose salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which as you can see is exactly the same line we draw in regard to obedience, lol. But you folks fight tooth and nail about it.

We do? Just more nonsense. More proof you do not listen to what people say. Why do you even bother?

We do not fight disobedience, we fight legalism. HUGE difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Every sin committed after a person RETURNS TO UNBELIEF separates them from God, because they no longer have the forgiveness of God to cover that sin. They don't believe in Christ's ongoing ministry (Hebrews 7:25) anymore, so how can they avoid the damnation of the sin they commit since they no longer have Christ covering that sin for them? That's why you have to keep believing to be saved. And last time I checked, believing was not on the works side of Paul's 'faith vs. works for justification argument, lol.

OSASer's are always challenging us with some ridiculous argument about 'how much obedience is enough' as if salvation was earned by the merit of works. When the right question to ask is, how do I know I'm believing unto eternal life? The answer of course is what mailmandan said--you have a lifestyle and habit of righteous living in love for God, love for others.

Of course, if you have any Calvinist leanings, you believe that if you do not have this lifestyle, or you fall away from that lifestyle, that means you were never saved to begin with. So, IOW, they can't ever know in this life time if they are truly saved because the potential to fall away and be exposed as one who never really believed to begin with doesn't end until you die. And that's supposed to be the doctrine of security, lol.

Can you prove they lost faith? Did the prodigal son stop believing his father was his father? That his father birthed him, that his father was his blood?

Your go on so much assumptions here. How can you know a person is even saved or not with your theology?

 

[Hizikyah]

If you disagree with this you better tell Jesus/Yahshua He is wrong, I actually believe this btw;

Mat 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh – the smallest of the letters – will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH." 5:20, "“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the reign of the heavens.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In our doctrine, you are eternally secure, and assured of that security, as long as you are believing, present tense. Simple...and Biblical. How do you know you are presently believing? Your life shows it. Lip service is not what signifies the faith that justifies/saves as so many in the church think it does.

You do not have security, Please stop. Your security is in yourself and how well you believe. Your whole salvation depends on you , Not christ. How can you sat that is security.

You should be scared to death, because you have no idea I'd one day you will fall from faith or not. You can;t Your not God.

 

[He_reigns]

We do? Just more nonsense. More proof you do not listen to what people say. Why do you even bother?

We do not fight disobedience, we fight legalism. HUGE difference.

When did continued belief in what Jesus Christ did for us become legalism?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Brokenness.

So a child of God can not be broken? Really?

 

[He_reigns]

You do not have security, Please stop. Your security is in yourself and how well you believe. Your whole salvation depends on you , Not christ. How can you sat that is security.

You should be scared to death, because you have no idea I'd one day you will fall from faith or not. You can;t Your not God.

My security of eternal life is in my continued belief in what Jesus and him alone did for me, what is yours?

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 18:4, “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anybody can fake anything. Except the love of God. But a person won't believe that until they know what the love of God looks like. Nobody can fake God's sacrificial love. That's why it's the distinguishing mark of the true believer. Not former believer, but the present believer.

We love because God loved us.

anyone can be a fake christian,

But Gods people are real. The good parts. The bad parts. And the broken parts. What is consistent in all those things is one thing, faith. Trust in God. David was broken many times, His faith kept him going. Many prophets were broken, but what kept them going was their faith.

How can we tall a fake christian? They will eventually walk away and give God and his people the fingers. Why? They never had faith to begin with.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bottom line is humility. When I see humility I know I'm dealing with a true brother/sister. When I see arrogance and a lack of humility I know I have yet to see if they are a true believer. I'm not judging their soul. I'm judging their behavior and guarding myself accordingly.

So we should judge you as not yet a true believer?

Be careful what you say. I know many humble non believers, and many arrogant believers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 5:14 put into practical application brother!

You can also tell the difference because the one giving lip service will eventually tell you to leave them alone, it's not your place to judge me, I am under grace not the law , man! and most times they leave the church.

I see more people leave the church for legalism, than I do because of Grace,

I have yet to see a person who believes in grace leave the church because they were confronted for a sin they are doing. They leave because they know they are sinning, and can not live up to the standard the church is trying to force them to live under.

Thats why legalism is so dangerous, People are afraid to come confess to get healed. Afraid they will be judged. So they leave instead.