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Not By Works
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You are saved unto good works.. so if the fruit is not bearing on our branches we are not believing unto the saving of our souls.....
The believing branch is grafted in by GOD to His Son who is the True Vine.. to feed our branches with His goodness.. to keep us alive inwardly where we were once dead in our trespasses.. by the Power and love of Heavenly Father.
a branch that is not provoking to love and do good works is not alive through Christ a branch that believes that we keep not the Commandments of GOD... is yet to grow in Grace and knowledge.. by Believing and doing..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Thanks, you just said we are saved by doing works (fruit bearing)
Now. Stop saying you're not pre4aching works..
Gods children produce fruit, Those not his children do not. They can not, because God bnever attached them to the4 vine4 in salvation.
Yet again, you put works as the ingredient for salvation, and not salvation as the power behind the works..
1st Peter 1 v9. receiving at the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
not " after we do enough good works, the salvation of your souls.
Now you can can read all between and after but for cc short here:
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
So we have much to do indeed.. thanks for sharing...
Have another read.. sometimes when we are adamant about something we are quick to see it where it is not..
we do have much to do, because when you ARE saved, you are to be doing good works. not doing to STAY saved. we are saved by believing in the One God sent.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
i read it again, same song and dance.
why do you deny it, stand up for what you believe,
You complained I was judging your mate DC.. yet if you go back through and take off the DC friendship glasses you can see how our conversation evolved..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Nope I did no such thing,, I just said if your gonna yell at one you better yell sat all.
What do I deny? That I believe we are saved unto good works by GOD's Grace through Faith in His Son's Testament? For I do not deny this but do not believe in the idea that we are dead in our tresspasses if we Believe... for what belief is that? My GOD is powerful and those that Believe Him are made New inwardly to Love and serve Him.. and yet we have people appearing to know Him putting a limit to what He can do because they choose not to believe...
I deny nothing.. and am open and have been throughout.. you want me to say my works save me and I don't need Christ but can please GOD with my works... GOD forbid... for I live by Faith in the Messiah's Testament and anything I do is because I was saved and loved so undeservingly that I had my heart replaced by the Most High by believing.. and know that it is the power of GOD that keeps me through Christ within through Faith that worketh by love...
How is it, the logical link is if there is any reason why you could be able to dishonour
God and stand in judgement as a believer, you are saying one believes in works.
1. If you call your brother a fool, you a liable to the fires of Hell
2. If you rebel like Korah and stand against Gods people and word, the ground will open up.
3. If you continue in rebellion or go back to the world, you have lost faith, and are counted lost
4. If you do not forgive your brother from your heart God will not forgive you.
These are all behaviour constraints.
Where is the problem with not seeing a believer can fall under judgement?
Paul says some believers by dishonouring the Lords supper have died.
Now he is not saying they have lost salvation, but they have been judged.
Paul uses the argument is God judged those who did not know as we know
harshly why should we fair better.
But to read scripture and see all these warnings, only someone in unbelief would
not take them seriously or so insecure, even to think this was true their faith
and love in Christ would be up to question.
This is like saying if you parent tells you off you are scared they are no longer
your parent and do not love you. Very strange.
God and stand in judgement as a believer, you are saying one believes in works.
1. If you call your brother a fool, you a liable to the fires of Hell
2. If you rebel like Korah and stand against Gods people and word, the ground will open up.
3. If you continue in rebellion or go back to the world, you have lost faith, and are counted lost
4. If you do not forgive your brother from your heart God will not forgive you.
These are all behaviour constraints.
Where is the problem with not seeing a believer can fall under judgement?
Paul says some believers by dishonouring the Lords supper have died.
Now he is not saying they have lost salvation, but they have been judged.
Paul uses the argument is God judged those who did not know as we know
harshly why should we fair better.
But to read scripture and see all these warnings, only someone in unbelief would
not take them seriously or so insecure, even to think this was true their faith
and love in Christ would be up to question.
This is like saying if you parent tells you off you are scared they are no longer
your parent and do not love you. Very strange.
yes, exactly. look, I understand that in our cultures, we do our jobs, then we get our pay. most of us do not get paid first. this makes sense, it is logical and reasonable.
but, it is NOT BIBLICAL. we are saved by grace, through faith FOR good works. I did not say this. Paul did. so, if you disagree with that statement, take it up with him.
For we are given the seal of the Holy Spirit by GOD's Grace through Faith in His Son.
We are to Repent and believe.
Now we are here in our mortal being born again of the incorruptible seed.. and we are to live by Faith as in walk in the Spirit which is subject to GOD's Law... for it was our old self that was sinful in nature.. now we are to walk as Christ walks for He leads us from within to the Kingdom of GOD.. yet we have not yet put on the immortal for that is the end of our Faith at the set time when we are given the Right to the Tree of life.. As in Everlasting life for those that Love and obey Him.. whom He will deem worthy to walk in white with Him..
Now don't try and tell me you are worthy for Worthy is the Lamb and to Him and GOD be the Glory.. you will be judged by Christ.. those that try to sit in His presence without their gown will be shown the door... Christ will permit whom He permits and reject whomever He rejects... make your Election sure by doing the Will of His Father... and that is that we Believe in His Son and Keep His Commandments.. for that is the Love of GOD bestowed upon us for no reason other than His Grace and Mercy toward the underserving creation He Created...
We are to Repent and believe.
Now we are here in our mortal being born again of the incorruptible seed.. and we are to live by Faith as in walk in the Spirit which is subject to GOD's Law... for it was our old self that was sinful in nature.. now we are to walk as Christ walks for He leads us from within to the Kingdom of GOD.. yet we have not yet put on the immortal for that is the end of our Faith at the set time when we are given the Right to the Tree of life.. As in Everlasting life for those that Love and obey Him.. whom He will deem worthy to walk in white with Him..
Now don't try and tell me you are worthy for Worthy is the Lamb and to Him and GOD be the Glory.. you will be judged by Christ.. those that try to sit in His presence without their gown will be shown the door... Christ will permit whom He permits and reject whomever He rejects... make your Election sure by doing the Will of His Father... and that is that we Believe in His Son and Keep His Commandments.. for that is the Love of GOD bestowed upon us for no reason other than His Grace and Mercy toward the underserving creation He Created...
everlasting live for those who believe in the Son. you know, John chapter 3, 10, Titus 3, just off the top of my head.
works do not save, nor maintain salvation. say it does all you want, but you are wrong, the Bible does not say this.
I think it boils down to whose faith is in view in regard to the work. The faith of one seen, or the unseen?
The one wage of sin is everlasting death, eternal separation from God..... never to raise to new spirit life forever more.
It began the moment Adam and Eve experienced doing the will of another voice. God corrupted the entire first creation beginning it process of decay leading to annihilation and a new creation.
Works are required to pay that eternal wage. They just cannot be performed by dead men. An eternal work coming from an eternal living Spirit is needed.
So then we are saved by works but not that of our own selves coming from a dead faith (the imaginations of one’s own heart) which produces dead works. We can offer our dead faith toward God all day long and will never be heard on high.
Note (purple in parenthesis) my personal comments needed to reconcile that which men call separate as if it was possible.. (faith works)
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith (dead) toward God, (not coming from or after God) .
If we are saved by faith it must be a living faith coming from a living God. It’s there were a schism seems to come from ,the dividing line. The question must be asked "whose faith". That of God ,or the things of men.
Many men for some reason or other do not want to accredit God as needing faith so many separate the word faith from works when in reality it is all together “faith works “.There is not separation between faith, the planning, and the execution of the plan the work of our faithful Creator . Out faithful creator who believed the plan would work and said ;let there be executing or working the plan (faith) and there was Light.
So we are saved by a righteous work but not that of ourselves .We are saved according to His eternal mercy as a imputed work of righteousness.
The key is not by which we have done. But no works altogether makes the faith of Christ which produces the works of Christ without effect.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
If we would attribute the work of Christ's faith to dead people who cannot work to pay the eternal wage then as we are informed in James 2 ...men do blaspheme the holy name /authority by which he does call us working in us to both will (faith) and do (work)his good pleasure .Again a work of His faith working towards us. not dead works offered towards Him..
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by "works", when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham seen is not justified by his dead works coming from a dead faith (the imagination of his own heart. But clearly is justified by works in the same way as the other example Rehab, an imputed righteousness .
Because faith is a work neither the word faith or works is attributed to Abraham or Rehab the two witnesses of the same “one faith” that worked in them .
Again to help understand the proper way to understand the verse the comments in (purple parenthesis’s) which equal a imputed work is needed to help reconcile the seemingly difference that many try to put between works and faith.
The parable below.
Seest thou how faith(Christ’s) wrought with his (Christ’s) works, and by (Christ’s) works was faith(Christ’s) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness(Christ’s): and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works(Christ’s) a man is justified, and not by faith(Christ’s) only.Jam 2:24
James two is a companion verse of Philippians 2 they work together as one witness as Christ by faith works in us to make it all possible to pay one the eternal Wage.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12
Not just wills (the faith ) but works, the result of the will .
The one wage of sin is everlasting death, eternal separation from God..... never to raise to new spirit life forever more.
It began the moment Adam and Eve experienced doing the will of another voice. God corrupted the entire first creation beginning it process of decay leading to annihilation and a new creation.
Works are required to pay that eternal wage. They just cannot be performed by dead men. An eternal work coming from an eternal living Spirit is needed.
So then we are saved by works but not that of our own selves coming from a dead faith (the imaginations of one’s own heart) which produces dead works. We can offer our dead faith toward God all day long and will never be heard on high.
Note (purple in parenthesis) my personal comments needed to reconcile that which men call separate as if it was possible.. (faith works)
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith (dead) toward God, (not coming from or after God) .
If we are saved by faith it must be a living faith coming from a living God. It’s there were a schism seems to come from ,the dividing line. The question must be asked "whose faith". That of God ,or the things of men.
Many men for some reason or other do not want to accredit God as needing faith so many separate the word faith from works when in reality it is all together “faith works “.There is not separation between faith, the planning, and the execution of the plan the work of our faithful Creator . Out faithful creator who believed the plan would work and said ;let there be executing or working the plan (faith) and there was Light.
So we are saved by a righteous work but not that of ourselves .We are saved according to His eternal mercy as a imputed work of righteousness.
The key is not by which we have done. But no works altogether makes the faith of Christ which produces the works of Christ without effect.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
If we would attribute the work of Christ's faith to dead people who cannot work to pay the eternal wage then as we are informed in James 2 ...men do blaspheme the holy name /authority by which he does call us working in us to both will (faith) and do (work)his good pleasure .Again a work of His faith working towards us. not dead works offered towards Him..
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by "works", when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham seen is not justified by his dead works coming from a dead faith (the imagination of his own heart. But clearly is justified by works in the same way as the other example Rehab, an imputed righteousness .
Because faith is a work neither the word faith or works is attributed to Abraham or Rehab the two witnesses of the same “one faith” that worked in them .
Again to help understand the proper way to understand the verse the comments in (purple parenthesis’s) which equal a imputed work is needed to help reconcile the seemingly difference that many try to put between works and faith.
The parable below.
Seest thou how faith(Christ’s) wrought with his (Christ’s) works, and by (Christ’s) works was faith(Christ’s) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness(Christ’s): and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works(Christ’s) a man is justified, and not by faith(Christ’s) only.Jam 2:24
James two is a companion verse of Philippians 2 they work together as one witness as Christ by faith works in us to make it all possible to pay one the eternal Wage.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12
Not just wills (the faith ) but works, the result of the will .
The Messiah teaches us to be perfect and Righteous and to Keep the Commandments... so how can any of us say we know Him if we do not do what He teaches?
So if the Messiah wrote to the 7 Churches telling them to Repent and believe.. and that their works are not perfect or they are not worthy to walk with Him... should we take heed or think it was a message for them not we? For by that token one could say Paul's writing were to those at Rome.. Corinthians etc.. and then what the Messiah was speaking to His Disciples so it is not for us?
The Gospel that Paul taught is what we have in our Bible freely.. before we learn of Paul we have the Gospel the New Testament which Paul labours to share... His writing affirm the New Testament as do all that are given to us to learn of..
So when the Lord speaks to the Churches we should take heed...