Not By Works

[royalscot]

Thanks Desertsrose.
Really.

You and I have been studying God's word the same number of years.
The Kingdom of God is NOT preached because it's too uncomfortable for today's society.

I was preached untll about the 1800's and then things really started to change.

It began with Calvin's teaching that one cannot lose salvation. It got the ball rolling.
So here we are today and hardly anyone even knows about this.

It's encouraging to know that you and a few Others here do understand about it.

you mean jesus christ s teaching ,

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10: I Am the Good Shepherd

 

[Magenta]

what is the point your making. is the word hall , going to be added. some place.

Originally Posted by Desertsrose
If you take into consideration that Jesus spoke through the apostles, you'll find 150 references to the Kingdom in the NT

The point was the words Jesus spoke. If one wanted to get technical, they should also include OT references, but to say Jesus spoke them would be technically wrong also, for the words of the apostles and those before Jesus were inspired by the Person of the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[FranC]

Well...it would be hell to be resurrected, only to find out you are going to die again, but for good this time.

But let me ask, in response to your question: If you just disappear because you're an unbeliever, is THAT hell?
If you live forever in hell, isn't that eternal life?

SG

You kind of have to figure out if you want to believe Jesus or not.
What do you think He said of what you're considering?


If you wish to believe in annihalism (I can't believe in it because I can't type it) it would not be the cause of the loss of salvation for you. You would still be saved. Your doctrine never saves you. Jesus does.

I don't believe in it because Jesus clearly spoke of heaven and hell.
Hell is anywhere God is not. We have really no idea what it will be like, nor heaven - but we could imagine.

I think the problem in your understanding this is the term ETERNAL LIFE.

Eternal Life DOES NOT MEAN that you live forever.

We ALL will live forever, we have an immortal soul that never dies.
So we will LIVE FOREVER whether we go to heaven or to hell. And we go there immediately upon Death.

The term ETERNAL LIFE does NOT MEAN that you will live forever.
It means the QUALITY OF LIFE that you'll have after Death.
A GOOD quality!
IF you have ETERNAL LIFE, it means you're going to heaven.

LIFE in this case means the life that Jesus gives you. That spark that non-believers do not have.
It's that Zoe Life I was telling you about. If I could find something fast on the net, I'll post it for you - or look it up.

When we speak of ETERNAL LIFE we mean the life that God gives us.

We receive ETERNAL LIFE right here on earth while we're still alive IF we believe in Jesus.
HE gives us that special eternal life.

This is why, if we have the Zoe Life, we're supposed to act like we're already in heaven. (although we won't be perfect).

So, everyone is immortal.
Some will go to heaven forever.
Some will go to hell forever.

ETERNAL LIFE has nothing to do with living forever....
It has to do with the QUALITY of HOW you will live forever.

Is this any better?

 

[joefizz]

Faith's definition:unquestioning belief
Work's definition:effort of doing or making

Faith is not salvation,salvation is only obtainable through Jesus Christ,when an individual out of faith asks God to save their soul and accept Jesus as saviour,is salvation"Given" to the individual as well as "Given" the holy spirit to accept or reject,or accept then reject(which is why blaspheming the holy spirit is the "only" "unforgivable" sin for one must believe to accept and then reject the holy spirit in order to blaspheme the holy spirit)
Salvation is "Given" through Jesus by God,Earning Salvation is not possible once one accepts the grace of Jesus Christ,for his grace makes "salvation" possible "without works" one can only choose one,the Law for salvation or Jesus's grace,there is no other choice but these two,True God would want people to "work"'by spreading his word,but once accepting Jesus's grace "salvation" is already obtained,thereby "works" are no longer apart of one's "salvation" but they are still apart of one's walk in life with God still,this is why in James it speaks of "faith" not salvation being dead without works,because "works of faith" show God that you are more than "talk" concerning one's appreciation for "salvation" that was "Given" them but also that they will "hearken" when God has a task for them to do for him.

 

[royalscot]

The point was the words Jesus spoke. If one wanted to get technical, they should also include OT references, but to say Jesus spoke them would be technically wrong also, for the words of the apostles and those before Jesus were inspired by the Person of the Holy Spirit of God.

dose your bible have a old testament and new testament section in your bible.

if old means old, what dose new mean.

when did the people of the old, know about death being conquered. etc technically you need the new, to explain etc

 

[FranC]

ZOE LIFE:


Zoe Life
The Greek word “zoe” is used to express the form of “life”
that Jesus gives to His followers. “I have come that they may
have life {“zoe”}.” (John 10:10) This heavenly form of life
needs to begin within our soul today. We gain access to this
life by being raised spiritually with the resurrection power of
the Holy Spirit into the heavenly realms with Christ. “But
God-because of His great love-made us alive together
with Christ-and raised us up together, and made us sit
together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” (Eph. 2:4-6)



“Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses” (1 Timothy 6:12 NASV). Thank God we are born again and are saved. For many, that’s all they know but do we Christians really grasp what we have? When you read the New Testament, Jesus often talks about a kind of life He gives. His disciples also talked about it several times. If that life isn’t important, why would they spend time letting us know about it? For sure, some know they now have a ticket to heaven, but they don’t realize that this new life should thoroughly change their lives in the here and now. They shut up their doors awaiting heaven, because they think that’s where we’re going to live that life. Yes, heaven is part but we’re to take a hold of this life and take advantage of it here!

Many have struggled so much on earth and have been made to think they can’t make it here, so they’re waiting to get to heaven where their mansion awaits them. That’s not the life Jesus gave to us. Such Christians have been deceived by the lies of the devil! Thank God, our mentality has changed because of God’s Word. The Bible declares that we shall know the truth and the truth shall make us free. The Lord Himself said in Hosea 4:6 that His people, not the people of the world, not children of the devil, but His own people, are destroyed because of their lack of knowledge. What enslaves and destroys God’s people is nothing other than their ignorance of God’s Word and what liberates them is their knowledge of the same. By this I do not mean head knowledge of the Scriptures but heart knowledge, that is, revelation knowledge of God’s Word. Eternal life starts here on earth, and that’s what Jesus came to give. He came to teach us that we can have life and have it abundantly.

From the onset, God created man to enjoy His life (Zoe). After God had created the world, He created man by breathing His very own Zoe life into him. Adam and Eve were made to enjoy all that God had created before them. There was no lack and no shortage, as well as no consciousness of worry or fear. Every day, they walked in the Zoe life of God. But then what happened? They disobeyed God and as a result, were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. They seized from enjoying the Zoe life because God had cursed them. That alone changed the course of the human race. Due to this, life was certainly man’s great need, for mankind was without life because of sin. All had sinned and through sin, death had come (Romans 5:2). We all were dead in our trespasses and sins and in the uncircumcision of our flesh (Ephesians 2:1, Colossians 2:13). This death alienated us from the life of God because of the blindness of our heart (Ephesians 4:18) and we were “without God in the world” (Ephesians 2:12).

To God be the glory, He sent His Son Jesus into the world, to atone for our sins, so as to give back His Zoe life to man. From the Greek Lexicon, Strong’s number 2222 defines the Zoe life as “the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate, every living soul.”


There's more if you just look up:
Zoe Life

 

[Desertsrose]

That was not the point, though, was it DR? No, it was not

If you had gone to the link I gave the list shows 119 references just in the gospels. So you would see that Fran was correct.

1. Matthew (54)
2. Mark (18)
3. Luke (44)
4. John (3)

 

[FranC]

you mean jesus christ s teaching ,

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10: I Am the Good Shepherd

How come no one believed this until Calvin?

 

[royalscot]

Faith's definition:unquestioning belief
Work's definition:effort of doing or making

Faith is not salvation,salvation is only obtainable through Jesus Christ,when an individual out of faith asks God to save their soul and accept Jesus as saviour,is salvation"Given" to the individual as well as "Given" the holy spirit to accept or reject,or accept then reject(which is why blaspheming the holy spirit is the "only" "unforgivable" sin for one must believe to accept and then reject the holy spirit in order to blaspheme the holy spirit)
Salvation is "Given" through Jesus by God,Earning Salvation is not possible once one accepts the grace of Jesus Christ,for his grace makes "salvation" possible "without works" one can only choose one,the Law for salvation or Jesus's grace,there is no other choice but these two,True God would want people to "work"'by spreading his word,but once accepting Jesus's grace "salvation" is already obtained,thereby "works" are no longer apart of one's "salvation" but they are still apart of one's walk in life with God still,this is why in James it speaks of "faith" not salvation being dead without works,because "works of faith" show God that you are more than "talk" concerning one's appreciation for "salvation" that was "Given" them but also that they will "hearken" when God has a task for them to do for him.

what a load of rubbish. context i will no bother proving you wrong, when you cannot understand who jesus was talking too, in your quote.

33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."John 10

 

[TruthTalk]

The point was the words Jesus spoke. If one wanted to get technical, they should also include OT references, but to say Jesus spoke them would be technically wrong also, for the words of the apostles and those before Jesus were inspired by the Person of the Holy Spirit of God.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Peter1:21 - A true statement.

 

[FranC]

being ashamed of something is much different than saying it is or is not necessary....

First of all, where's my favorite avatar?

Second of all, I don't understand what you mean.
I say It's necessary to obey God.
I say I'm not ashamed to say this.
Obeying means doing something, working, whatever.
It seems that some here are ashamed to say that they need to obey or do works due to their obeying.

Does this make sense?

 

[FranC]

I won't be baited by your foolish talk Fran.

Well well.

I DID say you wouldn't do it, didn't I?

Here, I'll do it again just to show you how painless it is:

IT IS NECESSARY TO OBEY GOD.
GOD DEMANDS THAT WE OBEY HIM.
IF WE SAY WE ARE BORN AGAIN, THEN WE MUST OBEY OUR MASTER.
IF WE OBEY HIM WE WILL SURELY DO WORKS.


Whew!
Easy.

 

[joefizz]

what a load of rubbish. context i will no bother proving you wrong, when you cannot understand who jesus was talking too, in your quote.

33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."John 10

and yet "Your"'post speaks only of "Blasphemy" not "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" there is a Huge"difference between the two.

 

[FranC]

Jesus NEVER said that we need to do good works for the purpose of getting salvation.

He NEVER said that we need to do good works for the purpose of keeping salvation.

He also NEVER said that our good works will get us into heaven.


THESE ARE FACTS THAT CANNOT BE DISPUTED...

Thanks.
I'm keeping tract now.

You said we need to do nothing above --- and that JESUS SAID IT. Oh my.

And Stone said the same thing in post no. 29436.


I'm sure God is VERY PROUD of you.

 

[royalscot]

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Peter1:21 - A true statement.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3:


john 10 v1
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

 

[FranC]

you do realize that you "Mock"'God with such a statement right?
which is dangerous.

Joe,
Why pick on Allen?
What did he say that is not right?

Are there Others here who perhaps DO mock God by saying that God does NOT REQUIRE
obedience from His creatures?

I mean, can we get our priorities in order??

 

[royalscot]

and yet "Your"'post speaks only of "Blasphemy" not "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit" there is a Huge"difference between the two.

do you want to answer that.
who was jesus speaking to , about Blasphemy or "Blaspheming

there is a big difference in interpretation.

 

[FranC]

Rules of the Kingdom? You apply earthly rules to spiritual things?

Seriously FranC, you missed the point. Jesus came as a sacrifice so we could have a loving relationship with the Father, reconciliation.

When that is received you are changed and then live by the Spirit of God Himself.

Yet you have rules or laws or whatever floats your boat to keep you in the Kingdom?

I have the sacrificial blood of the Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God to keep me there.

You see it is all about Jesus, not you, not me, not your bloated ideology of what you accomplish in your daily life that saves and keeps you saved. It is God Almighty that does that.

Honestly your high horse must be so beaten down by now, one day maybe you will fall off and finally bow down to the Lord and fully thank Him for His Grace and Mercy!

Why don't you find out about something you know nothing about and then come back here and we'll talk.
Why don't you go find out what JESUS said His mission was.

That would be nice.

 

[joefizz]

Joe,
Why pick on Allen?
What did he say that is not right?

Are there Others here who perhaps DO mock God by saying that God does NOT REQUIRE
obedience from His creatures?

I mean, can we get our priorities in order??

I didn't "pick" on him I was making him aware of what he faces concerning such a statement as he said to stones of fire,nothing more nothing less.

 

[FranC]

go right on ahead doing your works Fran.

Be blessed in your works.

That's all you have to say?
After all the work I put into that post?

Guess you have NOTHING to say since you're so unsure about everything.

Please don't ever ask me anything serious again because I WILL NOT BE ANSWERING YOU.