Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Without grace,how would we be acceptable to GOD?
Although Faith IS necessary to access this grace.

Most fail to recognize that grace is a positioning....based upon faith and being justified by faith!

5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [SUP][a][/SUP]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]2 [/SUP]through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and [SUP][b][/SUP]we exult in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Stephen63]

So you can not answer my questions.
You are ASSUMING God is pleased with the fruit you produced each day with a few minutes effort.
How about following the leadership of the Holy Spirit in everything you think or do 24/7.
That is what God expects of His children, and none of us do that.
I fail God every day.
YOU fail God every day.
To fail God is SIN.
People who sin are sinners.

Here is the question you need to ask your self.
Do I please God with my every thought and deed.
Be honest with yourself.

Like I didn't already know you were going that direction. You're stereotypical & don't even know it.

 

[dcontroversal]

A new believer in Christ is just as much in the kingdom as the mature believer, The Mature believer just knows more about what the kingdom is, and is leading others. THATS ALL..

Both would be headed to hell apart from the cross of Christ and his Grace.

The difference between a non believer, and one who has true faith, yet is still a "babe in christ"?

One will make it to heaven, the other is still condemned. and lest he repent, will never make it to heave.

DID not JESUS say the kingdom of God is in you (spoken to his saved disciples)....? Where does one come up with a new believer is not in the kingdom......shakes head at the ignorance!

 

[dcontroversal]

one has to first open eyes to see before they can hear..

otherwise, in stereo or mono, it is all the same noise. which they can not comprehend

Blind and deceived......to be expected.....the word is only discernable if one is saved....and one who mixes faith and works....gospel of a different kind, no power to save and double cursed....!

 

[dcontroversal]

considering that there are people in this very forum (just a cross section of the world IMO), that state they have been a Christian for 450 years (exaggeration) and yet treat the Bible like the book of interpretations and opinions....

well then, considering that, does it matter?

perhaps we should remember that the Holy Spirit ushers us into the Kingdom and not our own efforts

oh wait...it is me, or does that put the op in mind?......

Sure it does...and like the bible portrays....the Pharisee was a blind leader of the blind his whole life and died in his sins because he trusted into his own merit, works and self righteousness.......

 

[Persuaded]

Like I didn't already know you were going that direction. You're stereotypical & don't even know it.

I love the way you guys refuse to answer simple questions.
But that is expected.
This is a discussion forum and you refuse to discuss.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thats your problem, YOU THINK TO MUCH, you try to tell people WHAT YOU THINK they believe, instead of sitting down, Listening to them, and trying to figure out WHAT they believe.

WHat is our issue? our difference?

You think "walking" saves you

I think you are SAVED by faith, and because of this, YOU WALK.

You have a person walking by his own power.

I have people walking under Gods guidance and power (and God never fails what he started but will perfect until the day of Christ))

You have people trying to ACT to keep their salvation.

I have people ACTING because they are saved.

This difference is as different as night and day Or red and blue!

This summarizes the bible's way (in blue) and the world's way (in brick red).....

ALL glory belongs to God dia Jesus....he is the one who has done all the work....we just need to accept his rest and righteousness by faith and his blood applied.......!

 

[Stephen63]

ALL OUR righteousnesses are as filthy rags and our iniquities like the wind have taken us away....You know...When Jesus was on the earth and he had called out the saved, immersed believers that had given fruit meet of repentance (John the Baptist' ministry) and after Jesus had called these believers out and was teaching them as his disciples He said...Why do you call me GOOD....there are NONE GOOD, but God....

So...Jesus was on the planet in the form of sinful flesh and all around him were saved, immersed disciples of Jesus walking after the truth and HE said there WERE NONE GOOD...and EVEN included HIMSELF in that grouping........

That is all I need to know concerning saved men, women and even the lost...while in the flesh there is NONE GOOD and NOT ONE that sins not.........anything beyond that contradicts scripture.....

Notice I did not get mouthy

The christian's righteousness is Christ's righteousness. So when I said unrighteousness cannot perform righteous deeds, I meant they can't do anything because they don't have Christ's righteousness in them.

See?

BTW, TY for not being mouthy.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah, I can just feel the love oozing outta you.....right.

The only time you'll help me is when I change sides..... ain't gonna happen.

If Jesus' mission was complete, how come He is still interceding for us at God's right hand?

You would think the bolded would open your eyes.....do tell...WHY IS HE STILL INTERCEDING for you/us/?

MAYBE because WE sin, fail, fall short and WE are not as good and holy as those who claim works and no sin?

 

[dcontroversal]

21“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Apparently no one alive is there yet.

This concerns the Great Tribulation and enduring it unto the end...it has nothing to do with the salvation of the soul....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Um, The cross..

What can we do to make the cross more perfect? NOTHING..

The mere fact he still has to intercede shows we are still in danger of hellfire if left to our own works.

What Jesus did on the cross is all that was required....

a) It is finished
b) He shall see the travail of my soul and be satisfied....

Paul said....If I am going to glory...I will glory in the cross of Christ.......and all that mattered was the preaching of the cross!

 

[Stephen63]

You see the error in your thinking....it is highlighted.....

It is Jesus that bears fruit through us as a living sacrifice........HE is the ROOT.....and that is why fruit/works do not save of keep saved...the work is Jesus' dia the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.........

Paul said "I CAN DO ALL THINGS THRU CHRIST THAT STRENGTHENS ME".

In a nutshell, I can because "I AM "is on the inside..... not that He does what "I" want, but that I can do what "He" wants.

 

[Stephen63]

I love the way you guys refuse to answer simple questions.
But that is expected.
This is a discussion forum and you refuse to discuss.

Quit tryin' to set people up & maybe they'll talk to you, DUHH.

 

[AlaskanOrthodox]

that does not mean that our righteous works do not matter, it means that we are all sinners and we do all sin. most of us more than we do good. but in spite of our lowliness and the fact that we can not get to heaven without him. God helps us to do the impossible. so getting to heaven is not solely dependent upon our own acts but upon the mercy of God.

 

[Stephen63]

You would think the bolded would open your eyes.....do tell...WHY IS HE STILL INTERCEDING for you/us/?

MAYBE because WE sin, fail, fall short and WE are not as good and holy as those who claim works and no sin?

Therein lies the problem.....I don't claim works to make me righteous. Period. There is one on here that does, but that ain't me.

I believe strictly thay I am saved by grace through faith..... the key word here is "through" faith. "Through" means through the rest of my life, which means if I quit believing, I risk forfeiting everything I've gained in Christ. And I believe in the kind of faith James teaches, which states plainly that works are proof of faith.

If you heard anything else, you heard the HG twisted version.

 

[Stephen63]

This concerns the Great Tribulation and enduring it unto the end...it has nothing to do with the salvation of the soul....!

So, you don't believe that salvation is complete until we're forever changed in Glory?

 

[AlaskanOrthodox]

Therein lies the problem.....I don't claim works to make me righteous. Period. There is one on here that does, but that ain't me.

I believe strictly thay I am saved by grace through faith..... the key word here is "through" faith. "Through" means through the rest of my life, which means if I quit believing, I risk forfeiting everything I've gained in Christ. And I believe in the kind of faith James teaches, which states plainly that works are proof of faith.

If you heard anything else, you heard the HG twisted version.

grace, meaning intercession and the boundless mercy of the Lord. if all you do is believe in him, how can you obtain the heavenly kingdom? believing is only the first step.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.


James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out.




We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work.

This is our salvation and it is found only in what Christ has done for us. We are sealed forever in Him. He is not a liar.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. John 14:16

 

[preacher4truth]

Therein lies the problem.....I don't claim works to make me righteous. Period. There is one on here that does, but that ain't me.

I believe strictly thay <sic> I am saved by grace through faith..... the key word here is "through" faith. "Through" means through the rest of my life, which means if I quit believing, I risk forfeiting everything I've gained in Christ. And I believe in the kind of faith James teaches, which states plainly that works are proof of faith.

Severe case of 'self-itis' up there.

If you heard anything else, you heard the HG twisted version.

I've heard something else and it isn't your version nor is it an HG twisted version. If any person departs from the faith it is evident they were never converted. All the elect will be preserved unto the end and their works will follow them. Thus, all the glory goes to the grace of God working in us, not to 'I'.

 

[dcontroversal]

So how much is MUCH FRUIT?
Are you satisfied each day that you have produced enough, or do you live in fear of Hell because maybe you did not each ?
How is a person to know?
MUCH is a very vague amount.
Much to you may be very different than much to me.
Surly the Scripture is more definite in what God expects.

You know....I have seen an apple tree, or a persimmon tree and even a vine of wild grapes that only had 1 piece of half dried fruit......yet by that 1 (one) piece I knew what kind of tree it was...........