Not By Works
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Ariel82
Guest
When you sin.,,,God chastens you.
God doesn't "convict people of righteousness"
He does clothe us in His righteous.he does forgive us of our sins.
However folks need to feel godly sorrow and repentance when they sin.
God doesn't "convict people of righteousness"
He does clothe us in His righteous.he does forgive us of our sins.
However folks need to feel godly sorrow and repentance when they sin.
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Ariel82
Guest
Yes but our baby spirit has to learn to bury the dead flesh and learn self control so our bodies will be temples for the Holy spirit and our lives will be living sacrifices unto God,
Our minds/souls must learn and be constantly renewed by the Holy spirit. Our spirit grows as our souls move closer towards God and His will for us and our lives.
We are born again in Spirit but our minds/souls must learn and be renewed and our bodies purified..,a tough concept to onvey in words.
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Ariel82
Guest
Personally I think it better for her to prayerfully ask God to reveal His truth and how she can de elop more faith in trusting God with the little things in her life and not just her eternal salvation.
The scriptures about not worrying and how God clothes the fields with flowers comes to mind.
What do you mean by "look at Jesus?"
And what is it that you are trying to help me out of? When He shows me my hypocrisies and inconsistencies, I rejoice. I am happy when He gives me more light...
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Ariel82
Guest
Yeah.,,,we jumped these hoops before....
Let's cut to the chase.
True or false statement:
If you are a born again child of God and sin,
God chastens you.
Let's cut to the chase.
True or false statement:
If you are a born again child of God and sin,
God chastens you.
thats it exactly ariel. denying our guilt when we sin will never lead to repentance. let me be clear, our pasts are done and gone. its what we do after coming to Christ that should produce sorrow and lead to repentance.
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Ariel82
Guest
True.
Chasten means to form. It's a wood working term.
It's eye is on who we are becoming, like Christ.
Convicting of righteousness is actually the idea of chastening.
It's focus is on making us more like the Lord.
And repentance is about what's in front of us, not simply what's behind us.
Jesus Himself says, "Repent for the Kingdom is at hand".
Godly sorry leads to repentance, but it isn't repentance.
Repentance is a change of mind.
The question is what is the change of mind toward?
It's toward God.
The idea isn't a change of mind to how sinful I am, but how righteous I am in Christ.
How good He is, how forgiven I am, etc.
Paul explains this idea by saying, "I am crucified to the world"
The life I now live is in Christ, toward God, focused on God.
Keep your eyes on Heavenly things.
This is true repentance, submitting to Him.
C.
Chasten means to form. It's a wood working term.
It's eye is on who we are becoming, like Christ.
Convicting of righteousness is actually the idea of chastening.
It's focus is on making us more like the Lord.
And repentance is about what's in front of us, not simply what's behind us.
Jesus Himself says, "Repent for the Kingdom is at hand".
Godly sorry leads to repentance, but it isn't repentance.
Repentance is a change of mind.
The question is what is the change of mind toward?
It's toward God.
The idea isn't a change of mind to how sinful I am, but how righteous I am in Christ.
How good He is, how forgiven I am, etc.
Paul explains this idea by saying, "I am crucified to the world"
The life I now live is in Christ, toward God, focused on God.
Keep your eyes on Heavenly things.
This is true repentance, submitting to Him.
C.
the rest of wheere you are quoting
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[SUP]b[/SUP]7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must also rid yourselves ( notice He says you must rid yourselves) of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, <<<< thats all instructions for us to do regarding our sinful actions ( all such things as these) its not saying these things dont matter or they no longer apply) since you have taken off your old self with its practices
Paul is teaching things that these churches after He left, were doing wrong. those letters were corrections in Belief and also behavior. long after He left He wrote Back hearing reports of what they were doing with the Gospel, either they were thinking the Mosaic Law had to be obeyed and circumcision was needed, or they were thinking thier sinful behavior was covered byu grace so they were acting as they wanted saying " yay were home free lets go do as we please and have fun since were saved......thats what sinners nature will do when you think theres no consequence. paul was actually a very stern man when it came to sin its eveidenced in almost all of His letters. look at all He says of the corinthians " i will come and not spare any of you unless you get right" " i will hand Him over to satan to destroy Him" things Like that He berades them sternly for thier sin hes Not saying well no biggy grace grace. He Just is also sharing hope and encouragement in the same letters.
its why peter warns about pauls letters easily misunderstood and distorted.
Heresies are defined By opinions or teachings that arent in agreement with the principles of the Bible or cause one to omit those clear principles. the Bible is what herecy has to be compared against there is no other written Word of God in which to Hav full confidence. its proven over time to Be the true Words OF GOD. written down for man to believe not prove wrong or teach something contrary. people who Know the Bible dont have a hard time seeing a herecy and after all were in a BIBLE discussion forum.
John 16
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
God bless
If it's not by our hand, and Jesus is TOTALLY responsible for all we do,
WHY did he say this:
Mathew 25:44-46
Mathew 28:20
Luke 12:48
John 5:28-29
John 15:6
Sounds to me like Jesus is saying that WE are responsible for what we do after salvation, Jesus is NOT going to JUDGE HIMSELF.
Which is what He'd have to do if you're correct in saying that nothing is "of our hand" so that we should not boast.
BTW, who here is boasting??
I hear persons boasting that they DON'T do any good works.
Which is pretty odd to me.
Zmouth,
Your first sentence is beyond my understanding.
Apparently you know something I don't know.
The verse you post does not mean what you think it means.
Jesus means that He didn't come to destroy THE WORD of the prophets.
HOW could He?? The Prophets were the oracle of God.
If Jesus came to destroy the Prophets it would mean they told LIES.
Jesus also did not come to destroy THE LAW.
God is a moral being. Jesus COULD NOT have come to destroy the Law for He would have been destroying a part of God.
He came to fulfil the Law. To make it perfect and complete. Everytime you read Jesus saying "you have heard it said" He is about to make the Law more complete and understandable to us and more "full".
As far as my being perfect.
I refuse to answer silly questions.
But I'll say this:
Do you do your best to be UNPERFECT???
Hi friends,
I don't know the acronyms very well or what others are teaching or their controversies associated with them. But for me many years ago. I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.
What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.
It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.
Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus everyday. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in my as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.
A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
I don't know the acronyms very well or what others are teaching or their controversies associated with them. But for me many years ago. I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.
What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.
It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.
Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus everyday. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in my as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.
A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.
Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?
Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).
God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.
The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).
People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)
God bless you all.
I couldn't agree more!
I have often said that it's JESUS who saves us, NOT DOCTRINE.
Some on this thread have told me I'm going to that hot place because I don't agree with them.
(I'm not told this anymore although it might still be believed).
This means that they believe their DOCTRINE saves them and NOT JESUS!!!
So, for any little idea or concept that someone believes to be different AND they have some charisma, they depart their church and go off and make a new one. The last I read there were 33,000 denominations of Protestant churches.
Was the Reformation good or bad? I can't make up my mind. It was good because the CC was way off in its behavior in bringing persons to God. It was bad because of the wars it caused and the millions killed and all the different denominations it brought about so that today we're arguing about whether or not WORKS are necessary !!
I agree about the Tower of Bable. Great analogy, never thought of it. THIS is why we should be posting, to share ideas.
I also agree about the construct of this and other threads.
I might have misunderstood an earlier post of yours...
Gods attitude didnt change it just got harder coz he made it so from the least to best.. from the unbeliever to the believer we will all know we have sinned...
Jeremiah 31:33-24
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
[h=1]Hebrews 8:10-13[/h] [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. this is a blessing and a new order ..God was fed up with animal sacrifice and he knew that without his laws in our minds we where more likely to Sin..
And also God was probably fed up with hearing the excuse i didnt know...