Not By Works

[Stephen63]

Underneath every post of lovegodforever is a subscript: it starts with the word 'beastsmark' and it is underlined - it is a link to a website.

Aaannd that link goes nowhere.

I don't have a problem with an SDA, Oneness, or any other as long as they're not shoving doctrine down our throats like you guys are.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I know exactly what is being said in the signature that has this website in it. This is a Judaizing spirit that is anti-Christ at it's very core.

We are not ignorant of the enemies devices my friend nor are we ashamed of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work nor will we desert Christ for going back to the law. Romans 7:1-7

https://www.beastsmark.com/markofthebeast
Here are a few quotes.
THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS
RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE FOREHEAD = TO BELIEVE IN SUNDAY WORSHIP AND TO OBEY IT
RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE HAND = TO OBEY (You don't need to believe in Sunday Worship)
God’s seal is His name, character and law written in His people’s hearts and minds. These characteristics are seen in His 7th day Sabbath commandment, which identifies Him as our Creator (Ex 20: 10). God's true followers are identified as those who resist the mark of the beast and keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy. They are identified as “keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12)

Hi Grace777,

You are a funny one in deed. Seems like every time I see you, your adding to your list of name calling. So far we have Judaizing spirits, secret codes and conspiracy theories, mind manipulation, spiritual witchcraft and the now the new one for today, spirit of the anti-christ.. You are not upset with me my friend I am just sharing the Word of God. If you think I am wrong in anything I have posted then show me from God's Word? If you can't show me then why don't you believe God? There is no point in telling you that you just pulled things off the website out of context because your eyes seem to be wide shut. When you want to talk about God's Word in a sharing way just let me know.

God bless you all.

 

[Grace777x70]

Unlike saving faith, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. We can see faith that perseveres is the result of seed falling on good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, (properly prepared in heart) and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance. The other soils did not persevere because the seed fell on shallow, rocky soil and thorny soil, lacked moisture and had no root (not properly prepared in heart) so of course a lack of perseverance was inevitable. It's obvious what the cause and effect are. The condition of the soil preceded the results.

Genuine faith does not lack evidential works. If someone claims to have faith yet they have no works at all, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith, dead faith and not genuine faith.

Amen...well said!

Sometimes this "works-based" - self-righteousness belief system generates "fruit inspectors" that judge by their "own standards".

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the love and grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

 

[mailmandan]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Only believers have eternal life (Christ) in them. So keep believing. Don't lose Christ in you by the Holy Spirit through a return to unbelief.

I have come across people on Christian forums and in person who have claimed to once been Christians/Believers, but no longer are, yet when I asked them exactly what they previously believed which established the fact that they were indeed genuine believers, I never get a satisfactory answer.

NOBODY has ever told me that at one time they genuinely had placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, but later have withdrawn their faith in Christ for salvation and went back to trusting in works for salvation.

 

[UnderGrace]

So true, the work based system seems to lack grace?

Amen...well said!

Sometimes this "works-based" - self-righteousness belief system generates "fruit inspectors" that judge by their "own standards".

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the love and grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Many do the same.Try and seperate the law of God from the law. His living abiding word is law. No theories in the Bible . All have sinned all are guilty. If we fail to keep the whole law written in the book of the law, the Bible someone must pay the wage of our sin and must be a "eternal work" .A spiritual work that is not possible to do with a person who has a temporal spirit.

Christ according to His work of faith, as a labor of His love alone can keep all of the laws without stumbling. He alone has the eternal strength to give honor to the Father. He fullfilled every requirement ..In doing so we received the reward of His grace and we keep it by guarding it with all our new heart, new spirit soul and mind . Again no man can keep it without stumbling at one point. They have no eternal strength

It would seem you are still trying to divide the law from the same law. Under the law means under the authority of Christ. It is His perfect law from the faith of God the eternal one to the same faith as it is written. The works of the law is the works of God . By that perfect law God creates new creatures quickening our souls giving His understanding as a law to us simply ones

In the verse you offered whose law of faith did they not seek after? Surely it did not come from the imagination of their own heart?

How did the Jew stumble. It would appear as in the same way you show yourself.

Hi garee,

Please don't take this the wrong way friend. I am not interested in your opinions. I share the Word of God as the basis of what I believe. It sounds like from your post you do not know what I believe or the Words of God that I share. Our opinions mean nothing with God. It is only God's Word that matters in the end because it is the Word of God that will Judge each and everyone of us on the day of Judgement. If you want to share God's Word in a caring manner than that is great. Otherwise I believe God's Word when it says....We ought to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29).

Ok getting late my end I have a few things to do for now

God bless you all

 

[Grace777x70]

So true, the work based system seems to lack grace?

Yes..it is the very nature of it. Because they need to "keep themselves saved by what they do or don't do."

It's an anti-Christ belief system and it is a product of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which was brought into this world by Adam's transgression.

 

[UnderGrace]

I was thinking the same.

To go to unbelief the person would have to believe that the cross was not sufficient to save, since that is what we believe to be saved?

I have come across people on Christian forums and in person who have claimed to once been Christians/Believers, but no longer are, yet when I asked them exactly what they previously believed which established the fact that they were indeed genuine believers, I never get a satisfactory answer.

NOBODY has ever told me that at one time they genuinely had placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, but later have withdrawn their faith in Christ for salvation and went back to trusting in works for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Aaannd that link goes nowhere.

I don't have a problem with an SDA, Oneness, or any other as long as they're not shoving doctrine down our throats like you guys are.

I've had discussions with SDA's on a different Christian forum (and on my mail route) who do nothing but shove doctrine (mainly the keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday) down everyone's throat. I came across this website for reaching SDA's and discovered they have some dangerous doctrine!

The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I have come across people on Christian forums and in person who have claimed to once been Christians/Believers, but no longer are, yet when I asked them exactly what they previously believed which established the fact that they were indeed genuine believers, I never get a satisfactory answer.

NOBODY has ever told me that at one time they genuinely had placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, but later have withdrawn their faith in Christ for salvation and went back to trusting in works for salvation.

my uncle...

he was the preacher of a church


now hes a new age agnostic type


who lives in fornication and drunkeness (pot smoking)
and is the singer of a rock band

last i spoke to him

he said God isnt real and Jesus wasnt God


but if he IS then he should be fine because he was saved already


hes an example of someone who believes once saved always saved


he was a baptist preacher


i still pray he turns back to Jesus

(i was too young to tell you what he believed back then.... wether it be work based or based on the sinners prayer or i dont know what.... but now it sounds to me like his belief was faith based)

 

[UnderGrace]

A dangerous doctrine indeed.

I've had discussions with SDA's on a different Christian forum (and on my mail route) who do nothing but shove doctrine (mainly the keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday) down everyone's throat. I came across this website for reaching SDA's and discovered they have some dangerous doctrine!

The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

 

[UnderGrace]

And you know for sure he was born again? None of us can know another persons position in Christ unless God reveals it to us.

my uncle...

he was the preacher of a church


now hes a new age agnostic type


who lives in fornication and drunkeness (pot smoking)
and is the singer of a rock band

last i spoke to him

he said God isnt real and Jesus wasnt God


but if he IS then he should be fine because he was saved already


hes an example of someone who believes once saved always saved


he was a baptist preacher


i still pray he turns back to Jesus

 

[NoNameMcgee]

And you know for sure he was born again? None of us can know another persons position in Christ unless God reveals it to us.

no

i was far too young

never spoke to him about Jesus till long after he stopped seeking God


i only know of stories

vague memories
and what others say of him

 

[Grace777x70]

A dangerous doctrine indeed.

Yes - it most certainly is. It replaces and exchanges Christ and His finished work for their own works of self-righteousness. All works-based belief systems operate from this same thing.

People are free in Christ to observe any day as they choose but when they say "You must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way or you are sinning and dis-obeying God" - that is a Judaizing spirit and Paul didn't stand for this perversion of the gospel for one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the believers.

 

[garee]

I've often used Titus 3.

What is it saying according to you?

The grace of God teaches us to say no to ungodliness

It's saying that we need TWO things to be saved:

1. God's grace

2. Works

So why do I hear so much talk AGAINST works??
I don't hear any talk AGAINST GRACE!!!!!!

Works seems to be the problem.

Yes two things God's grace acording to His work of faith.

We are saved by Christ’s work of faith according to His labor of love it alone provides God’s grace. The eternal work He performed as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world was no problem to the eternal one.

His grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness .If we do not have his eternal grace to begin with we cannot work

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that "bringeth salvation" hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Deeds done in righteousness are works done by persons who do not know God but are trying to work their way to heaven.

Yes deeds done according to His righteousness as an imputed righteousness. Not of our own selves. People who know not God have no righteousness . They have no desire not being drawn by the father to work their way to heaven they have their reward and try and show it as a sign to themeselves. There own gospel

 

[PHart]

What are these works saved people do?

This is the work that accompanies salvation (note the italics part):

"we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints." (Hebrews 6:9-10 NASB)

Not earns it, accompanies it.
But so many people are convinced salvation can be alone and it's still a salvation. The author also says that fields that are barren of good growth and only have thorns growing in it will be burned up in the end:

"8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:8 NASB)

But so many people are taking false comfort that barren fields of thorns and thistles are going to be saved on the Day of Judgment too. If you get to the Judgment with nothing but an empty confession of dead faith (no works attached), you will NOT be saved you will be burned up. We were warned, James and John were very clear that dead faith does not save. But we are being deceived by demons that dead faith IS also a faith that saves. The person who only has a confession of faith and says he knows God but does not obey God is a liar. I didn't say it, John said it. We've been warned, folks. Your confession of faith can only save you if the faith you say you have changes you into a new person who is characterized by obedience to God.

 

[LoveGodForever]

A dangerous doctrine indeed.

Hi UG and others,

Can you show me from God's Word anything I have posted here on this forum that is not from God's Word and is dangerous doctrine. I am not interested in our opinions and rumors of what he said or she said. Use God's Word and let's talk Scripture as Christians in the Spirit of love. If you can't show me from God's Word anything that I am saying that is not correct, then why not believe God's Word?

 

[UnderGrace]

Paul didn't stand for this perversion of the gospel for one hour

Amen. He knew the cost of the cross and what God had accomplished on our behalf.

They polish up the Sabbath and think if they make it shine brightly enough it can be added next to the cross.

Anything that adds to the cross disobeys God. This is where God demands obedience. (to use some popular words here on CC)

Yes - it most certainly is. It replaces and exchanges Christ and His finished work for their own works of self-righteousness. All works-based belief systems operate from this same thing.

People are free in Christ to observe any day as they choose but when they say "You must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way or you are sinning and dis-obeying God" - that is a Judaizing spirit and Paul didn't stand for this perversion of the gospel for one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the believers.

 

[mailmandan]

my uncle...

he was the preacher of a church

now hes a new age agnostic type

who lives in fornication and drunkeness (pot smoking)
and is the singer of a rock band

last i spoke to him

he said God isnt real and Jesus wasnt God

but if he IS then he should be fine because he was saved already

hes an example of someone who believes once saved always saved

he was a baptist preacher

i still pray he turns back to Jesus

(i was too young to tell you what he believed back then.... wether it be work based or based on the sinners prayer or i dont know what.... but now it sounds to me like his belief was faith based)

*So you were too young to tell what he believed back then...it "sounds" like his belief was faith based, but you never got a clear, definitive answer. Just because someone was a baptist preacher does not automatically mean they must have been saved.

So now he "lives in fornication and drunkeness (pot smoking) singer of a rock band/said God isnt real and Jesus wasn't God." Does that sound descriptive of a child of God to you? I pray that he will receive Jesus.

Believing in OSAS doesn't automatically mean you will go out and live like the devil. Love and gratitude is the proper motivation to serve the Lord and not fear and bondage to insecurity. There are people in the OSAS camp who may never have been genuinely converted, just as there are those in the NOSAS camp who trust in works for salvation and have never been genuinely converted.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Yes - it most certainly is. It replaces and exchanges Christ and His finished work for their own works of self-righteousness. All works-based belief systems operate from this same thing.

Hi Grace777,

You show me one post where I have ever said any of the claims you are making about me above? If you cannot is what your saying above telling the truth or are you attacking the messenger because you want to hold on to your man made traditions over the Word of God? All of us need to think about the following Scriptures very seriously. Do we follow God or man? As to me I will follow Jesus because I love him.

JOHN 12:
[SUP]47,[/SUP] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
[SUP]48,[/SUP] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Ok time to rest.