"Not by works" - false!

[eternally-gratefull]

“My sheep listen to my voice”

OSAS’ers cannot hear the voice of scripture and routinely use the scripture that has the condition of hearing his voice as a proof text.

Amazing.

Yet your not hearing his voice. Your hearing your own voice which tells you you must work or else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Spurgeon prayer...
The prayer was satirical, not didactic. Spurgeon was mimicking what he thought an Arminian would pray if he was to be consistent with his doctrine.
Surgeon was a Calvinist.

I was wondering

This Calvinist Arminian debate causes that very type of mocking tone which we should hate

 

[Rosemaryx]

You are not the only one,

Straight away I believe God placed it on my heart to apologise to Judges....

He did to me to...
We are to walk in peace with all men , that does not in no way mean we compromise on Scripture , but are attitudes are to be good towards others , and I found my attitude to be stinky in places , and that laid heavy on my spirit , so I sought to make peace , and praise God I do not carry that burden no more...
...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, the security of salvation is in the perfect work and ministry of Christ. Our faith is merely the way that we access the security of Christ's work.

That’s security in your faith not in gods word

Somehow you have confused that issue

 

[jackrosie]

Most people think there is no other way to view the scriptures upon which they have based their doctrinal beliefs on. I have found this to be especially true of Calvinist leaning people.

Bring your osas verses to the table and I will show you that your way of understanding it is not the only possible way to see it. You don't have to agree with the other views. I just want to show you there are other legitimate and honest ways to view the scriptures that you are sure can only be understood one way.

It’s not our way of understanding....it’s what

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (KJV)
Romans 8:1

The text says we are in Christ Jesus, not that Jesus remains in us. Of course there are other texts that talk about Jesus and the Holy Spirit being in us, so both are true.

Jesus remains in us after we are saved.....we are in Christ Jesus once we are saved...he then remains in us..never to forsake or leave us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.

I know he won't speak up.

He believes that, by virtue of what faith is, that you must continue to believe to the very end, and can not live in sin, or you are not really saved to begin with.

He believes no such thing

When he gets back he will prove that to you

 

[Fastfredy0]

Actually, Calvinism is not the horrible doctrine. At least it defends the necessity to continue to believe in order to be saved, and the necessity to live a holy life.

I would refine your assertions.

1) Calvinism believes that the FAITH of all those who are born again (regenerated) will never cease. All will be saved, none lost. Technically, you are correct when you say Calvinism believes one must "continue to believe in order to be saved"; but this belief/faith comes from and is maintained by God and not the person....thus it can never be lost.

2) Calvinism believes that all those who are born again (regenerated) will show evidence (WORKS) of salvation. WORKS are a result of salvation and does not lead to salvation or maintain ones salvation. (It is a subtle, but important difference.)

 

[jackrosie]

and that is the correct thing to do "ask God"!

Thank you...JustJo.

 

[gb9]

.

I know he won't speak up.

He believes that, by virtue of what faith is, that you must continue to believe to the very end, and can not live in sin, or you are not really saved to begin with.

you see, right here, " must continue to believe ...., AND.

the " and " that you add is works salvationism .

one is saved by belief. only. no " and ".

oh, as far as making it personal, it is not.

but, it does tick me off when folks flat out lie about what it takes to be saved.

like your " believe, AND " lie.

 

[Rosemaryx]

That's why you should remain in Christ Jesus.

But we are in Christ Jesus , born again , new birth ...
If children of God could lose Salvation everyday , there would be no believers , we do all fall, stumble , but the Holy Spirit is within us , and yes we do grieve Him , and He lets us know ...
...xox...

 

[Fastfredy0]

I am presently assured but I may not be assured in the future. That for me creates a sense of doubt and places a lot of pressure on me

Sounds like you may be more interested in ASSURANCE OF SALVATION then ETERNAL SECURITY.
If so, try this URL: https://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html

 

[Judges1318]

you see, right here, " must continue to believe ...., AND.

the " and " that you add is works salvationism .

one is saved by belief. only. no " and ".

oh, as far as making it personal, it is not.

but, it does tick me off when folks flat out lie about what it takes to be saved.

like your " believe, AND " lie.

I don't know how long I can try to get you to understand what I'm actually saying.
You're hearing something different than what I'm saying. Really.

 

[Judges1318]

But we are in Christ Jesus , born again , new birth ...
If children of God could lose Salvation everyday , there would be no believers , we do all fall, stumble , but the Holy Spirit is within us , and yes we do grieve Him , and He lets us know ...
...xox...

Sinning does not separate the believer from salvation.
Sin can only separate the person who has stopped believing from salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

@gb9, read this please:

I would refine your assertions.

1) Calvinism believes that the FAITH of all those who are born again (regenerated) will never cease. All will be saved, none lost. Technically, you are correct when you say Calvinism believes one must "continue to believe in order to be saved"; but this belief/faith comes from and is maintained by God and not the person....thus it can never be lost.

2) Calvinism believes that all those who are born again (regenerated) will show evidence (WORKS) of salvation. WORKS are a result of salvation and does not lead to salvation or maintain ones salvation. (It is a subtle, but important difference.)

As you can see, Calvinism believes you must always believe, and always live a holy life, or you were never saved to begin with, not because those things are works that earn you salvation.

My belief is similar except that I believe a believer can indeed stop believing. But I maintain along with them that the mark of the true believer is that, obviously, he is presently continuing to believe/trust in Christ, and he is living a changed/changing life. And that neither of those things earn salvation, but are merely evidences of salvation.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

If children of God could lose Salvation everyday , there would be no believers

If OSAS was true, there would many that would be saved.

But our Lord plainly said that many are called, but few are chosen.

Few will enter the narrow way of keeping his body in subjection, mortifying the deeds of the body, suffering in the flesh, ceasing from sin, taking up his cross, letting others to smite them, letting themselves to be defrauded...etc.

Many love the wide gate where none of the things I mentioned, which are scriptural, matter one bit.

 

[Judges1318]

He believes no such thing

When he gets back he will prove that to you

Okay, lol.
I think he's honest enough to see that what I said is true:

He believes that, by virtue of what faith is, that you must continue to believe to the very end, and can not live in sin, or you are not really saved to begin with.

I can't believe you haven't been reading his posts to know this.

 

[EleventhHour]

Sinning does not separate the believer from salvation.
Sin can only separate the person who has stopped believing from salvation.

Sure you want us to believe that when the person stops believing in their salvation, God imputes back sin to the person.

So the person once declared innocent is now once again guilty ....

because the frailty of man in your book supersedes the Eternal Status of Justified declared by God.

The person declared INNOCENT of all charges by grace through faith and is indeed INNOCENT ... belief in our innocence is not what keeps us saved, that quite honestly is absurd.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Sinning does not separate the believer from salvation.
Sin can only separate the person who has stopped believing from salvation.

But those of us who are born again will not fall away , only those who have superficial faith fall away , there are plenty of them...
God knows who are His...
...xox...

 

[EleventhHour]

If OSAS was true, there would many that would be saved.

But our Lord plainly said that many are called, but few are chosen.

Few will enter the narrow way of keeping his body in subjection, mortifying the deeds of the body, suffering in the flesh, ceasing from sin, taking up his cross, letting others to smite them, letting themselves to be defrauded...etc.

Many love the wide gate where none of the things I mentioned, which are scriptural, matter one bit.

If you understood grace you would know better than the above.

 

[Rosemaryx]

If OSAS was true, there would many that would be saved.

But our Lord plainly said that many are called, but few are chosen.

Few will enter the narrow way of keeping his body in subjection, mortifying the deeds of the body, suffering in the flesh, ceasing from sin, taking up his cross, letting others to smite them, letting themselves to be defrauded...etc.

Many love the wide gate where none of the things I mentioned, which are scriptural, matter one bit.

I must admit , I prefer to say that those who are born again have Eternal life...
You are correct , many are walking on the wide path , these are those who supervisiously believe , not born again children of God...
...xox...