"Not by works" - false!

[Judges1318]

goodness, does that really say "believe" ??

Yep, and the evidence of that faith being the overcoming.

 

[gb9]

Yep, and the evidence of that faith being the overcoming.

here is the lie in lordship salvation perfectly illustrated - posthuman spoke of believe and you said " yep, and....."

so, faith and belief in Christ is not enough, there has to be more.

that is what you teach. you can spin it, flip it, try to talk around it, but this IS your belief system.

believe and.....

 

[Chester]

here is the lie in lordship salvation perfectly illustrated - posthuman spoke of believe and you said " yep, and....."

so, faith and belief in Christ is not enough, there has to be more.

that is what you teach. you can spin it, flip it, try to talk around it, but this IS your belief system.

believe and.....

How is a person saved? by believing (by grace through faith)

Is it believing and . . . ? No!

Is it believing only/alone . . .? No!

 

[Micaiah-imla]

here is the lie in lordship salvation perfectly illustrated - posthuman spoke of believe and you said " yep, and....."

Peter said to “add” to your faith.

2 Peter 1:5,10
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith ...[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall

Was he a so-called “lordship salvationist”.

He also said you could cease from sin:

1 Peter 4:1
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

 

[Judges1318]

here is the lie in lordship salvation perfectly illustrated - posthuman spoke of believe and you said " yep, and....."

so, faith and belief in Christ is not enough, there has to be more.

that is what you teach. you can spin it, flip it, try to talk around it, but this IS your belief system.

believe and.....

Friend, you're the one spinning what me and Posthuman said.

Faith without evidence is not faith.
The Lordship of Christ (a.k.a. obedience) is the evidence you have received his forgiveness.
You seem to only be able to hear that as 'Lordship is how you earn salvation'.

 

[Guojing]

Friend, you're the one spinning what me and Posthuman said.

Faith without evidence is not faith.
The Lordship of Christ (a.k.a. obedience) is the evidence you have received his forgiveness.
You seem to only be able to hear that as 'Lordship is how you earn salvation'.

Obviously John is not saying to the Jews there that all they needed to do is to believe.

Otherwise, he will contradict himself in 1 John 3:10 when he said

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[posthuman]

Believing in Christ's forgiveness for eternal life is evidenced by a change in behavior.

47 "...I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 7:47,50

Her faith saved her. Not her works.
Her works of love were just the evidence of her faith.
Her love is what showed her to be forgiven in Christ.
Ultimately, you can't separate changed behavior from having your sins forgiven.

Totally agree.

But we may not see behavior, and the Lord sees the heart. He told us not to judge by mere appearance. So the thing which really must be measured for salvation, we can't measure. We can get a fairly good statistical estimator by measuring works/fruit etc but that has an inherent error both in the works themselves and in our observations of them; that kind of means of measuring carries the risk of false positive and false negative results: people with evil hearts can do good works and people with light in their hearts can fail to do good works.

Love for one another is how He says we will be known as His. How many ways is love expressed? And isn't love also overlooked sometimes, because of how it is expressed vs. how it is looked for? He made it so that we can hardly sit in judgment of each other - we can judge actions, because righteousness evidences itself. But by declaring a righteousness by faith, He hides eternity in people's hearts so that we cannot find it out.

 

[posthuman]

Yep, and the evidence of that faith being the overcoming.

A battle of attrition may not appear to be won, or even to be being waged, until the end.

I hesitate to judge anyone

 

[Lightskin]

Now, go seek out 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and the counterpart in Ephesians 5. Then read 1 John.

Spend more time in the word than on here, you will change, and so will your online pals for doing so, and you’ll be better off. If they or you balk at this, well, that’s telling. Just a suggestion.

I appreciate your advice and have since taken you up on it. I have read the Scriptures you suggested, and have done so slowly and prayerfully.

It is true that Christians should strive to walk in a loving, upright manner, avoiding decadence and willful sin. That said, I proclaim via scripture itself, that people who believe in Jesus Christ are not condemned.

1 John even states, whoever has the Son, has the Father. God knows all of our shortfalls, struggles and tribulations and that’s why His grace is sufficient.

Don’t think I’m disregarding Scripture that pertains to following God’s commands, however let us not forget that God’s greatest command is that we love Him and one another. I see from many people here, including you and me, that we all too often don’t treat each other with proper love. I even see the OP has been banned.

I am challenging you and myself in an act of love and encouragement, to begin treating people with whom we disagree, with love and the upmost respect. Are you up to the challenge?

 

[EleventhHour]

error both in the works themselves and in our observations of them; that kind of means of measuring carries the risk of false positive and false negative results: people with evil hearts can do good works and people with light in their hearts can fail to do good works.

Amen and Amen!!

 

[Lightskin]

lightskin will probably needs this help for awhile, even if he puts him self in positions where he can not be able to sin, the temptation will still be there.

my anger was about the way lightskin was being attacked.l not the scriptures. Forgive me sis

I love you brother and am grateful for your ability to see things properly. Thanks for your understanding. And for the record, you’re no coward my brother.

On another note, it’s definitely going to be a challenge for me to treat everyone with respect when in fact disrespectful people really draw my ire.

I’m not going to lay down and I will meet force with force, but I will do so with respect. Hopefully others who share the same weakness will follow suit.

 

[Judges1318]

A battle of attrition may not appear to be won, or even to be being waged, until the end.

I hesitate to judge anyone

But in the meantime, all Christians have the right and the responsibility to make level headed decisions about who they can trust as a brother and who they can not. This isn't about pronouncing eternal judgments on anybody.

 

[posthuman]

But in the meantime, all Christians have the right and the responsibility to make level headed decisions about who they can trust as a brother and who they can not. This isn't about pronouncing eternal judgments on anybody.

yes

A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly:​

and there is a Friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
(Proverbs 18:24)​

 

[EleventhHour]

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4267171


I must say the silence is deafening on this post ......................

 

[azamzimtoti]

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4267171


I must say the silence is deafening on this post ......................

I hear ya.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hear ya.

it is to be expected..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I love you brother and am grateful for your ability to see things properly. Thanks for your understanding. And for the record, you’re no coward my brother.

On another note, it’s definitely going to be a challenge for me to treat everyone with respect when in fact disrespectful people really draw my ire.

I’m not going to lay down and I will meet force with force, but I will do so with respect. Hopefully others who share the same weakness will follow suit.

Amen brother

Hopefully we all learn to do this..

 

[Lightskin]

Azamzimtoti was banned?

 

[Chester]

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4267171

it is to be expected..

I must say the silence is deafening on this post ......................

Yeah, when the OP gets banned and the title is unbiblical, what do you expect??!!

If someone wants to do better, they should call their post "BY MY WORKS" James 2:18. Maybe I should, but I don't have the time to do it now!! LOL!

 

[Chester]

I love you brother and am grateful for your ability to see things properly. Thanks for your understanding. And for the record, you’re no coward my brother.

On another note, it’s definitely going to be a challenge for me to treat everyone with respect when in fact disrespectful people really draw my ire.

I’m not going to lay down and I will meet force with force, but I will do so with respect. Hopefully others who share the same weakness will follow suit.

Good morning, brother. I must say you are a great guy! I wondered for awhile, but I guess you thought I was someone I wasn't. First time I have been called a "punk" for awhile, anyway!