nephilim

[Benadam]

I think that there is not enough information provided in the text to warrant any such conclusions, so no.

What do you believe accounts for the significant difference in The statements Eve makes at Cain and Seth's births and their outcomes?

 

[Dino246]

What do you believe accounts for the significant difference in The statements Eve makes at Cain and Seth's births and their outcomes?

They were different events, different kids, different birth experiences. Eve had already lost one son to murder and the other to banishment.

 

[Scribe]

Well I suppose we all would see the issue of certain writings differently. As I said before to me it seems clear from the many Apostolic Church fathers that they regarded it as authentic and that as I stated it was accepted by the Jews up until Jesus and then they rejected it to do away with any mention of the Lord. This I based on the references by the early Church (up till about ad250) which are numerous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_of_the_book_of_Enoch_in_antiquity_and_Middle_Ages

And so it seems that their opinion of it was considered as to why the Jews accepted it up until Christ but then removed it. Which to them seems to only be that they(the Jews) were trying to reestablish what was considered Scripture and cleanse other writings from the newly formed Jewish cannon that mentioned the Lord. Here is what Tertullium wrote about it in about 200ad (see chapter 3) https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm I'm not Catholic but I used the web site because it is "arranged conveniently" but you can find another if you like. Anyway this is why I've said the things I have concerning it that being the things the early Church wrote concerning it's removal.

I am going to have to disagree with Tertullian. And any other early church writers who were duped into thinking it was written by Enoch.

To say that the Jews accepted it, is not accurate. There is evidence in rabbinical writings that it was controversial as soon as it appears on the scene, which was probably a collection of writings that were written between 2nd and 1st century BC.

The acceptance by some (which no doubt had an agenda or were gullible and ignorant just like today) and rejection by others who were more conservative and found not only the outrageous claim that it was written by Enoch but also that the content itself unworthy of respect, made it so that it was never "accepted by the Jews" as a whole.

I think the strongest argument that can be made is that it was included as a collection of Jewish writings. It's literary value was that it used fables to argue a theological ideology concerning good overcoming evil in the future.

It was not included in the Tanakh and for the same reasons that caused it to be rejected by conservative Jews before Christ came on the scene. The arguments about it being rejected because it might have supported some Christian ideals is ignoring the fact that it was controversial before Christ came on the scene.

Jesus quoted from many scriptures but never from Enoch. But Jesus did appear to be referring to Gen 6 when he said men were marrying in the day of Noah right before the flood came and the only verse that says so is the sons of god saw the daughters of men and took them wives, which is marrying, and then God says he will send the flood. This is a commentary by Jesus interpreting the sons of God as men, and I am going with Jesus. Jesus was well aware of the Book of Enoch and the controversy surrounding it at the time, and he interprets them as men putting to silence the foolishness of ignorant men. Case CLOSED.

 

[iamsoandso]

I am going to have to disagree with Tertullian. And any other early church writers who were duped into thinking it was written by Enoch.

To say that the Jews accepted it, is not accurate. There is evidence in rabbinical writings that it was controversial as soon as it appears on the scene, which was probably a collection of writings that were written between 2nd and 1st century BC.

The acceptance by some (which no doubt had an agenda or were gullible and ignorant just like today) and rejection by others who were more conservative and found not only the outrageous claim that it was written by Enoch but also that the content itself unworthy of respect, made it so that it was never "accepted by the Jews" as a whole.

I think the strongest argument that can be made is that it was included as a collection of Jewish writings. It's literary value was that it used fables to argue a theological ideology concerning good overcoming evil in the future.

It was not included in the Tanakh and for the same reasons that caused it to be rejected by conservative Jews before Christ came on the scene. The arguments about it being rejected because it might have supported some Christian ideals is ignoring the fact that it was controversial before Christ came on the scene.

Jesus quoted from many scriptures but never from Enoch. But Jesus did appear to be referring to Gen 6 when he said men were marrying in the day of Noah right before the flood came and the only verse that says so is the sons of god saw the daughters of men and took them wives, which is marrying, and then God says he will send the flood. This is a commentary by Jesus interpreting the sons of God as men, and I am going with Jesus. Jesus was well aware of the Book of Enoch and the controversy surrounding it at the time, and he interprets them as men putting to silence the foolishness of ignorant men. Case CLOSED.

That's fine and we also should remember that the same Jews also rejected as cannon Matthew through Revelation and so not many might accept their opinion anyway.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

All descendants of Adam were / are begotten in the likeness / image of their parents.

Why do you believe that?

I believe what is written in Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his [Adam's] own likeness, after his [Adam's] image; and called his name Seth

I believe all mankind is descended from Adam. However, my generation is far removed from Adam and, depending on your age, your generation may be removed further than my generation.

My kids are one generation further removed from Adam than I am. My grandkids are two generations further removed from Adam ... and their kids will be three ... and on and on.

 

[Benadam]

They were different events, different kids, different birth experiences.

So we're Cain and Abel's birth. No statements made when Abel is born.

Eve had already lost one son to murder and the other to banishment

Exactly. Life changing events for sure. Believing that should lead one to examine Eve's statements before and after those events. How she was changed by the mystery of death and the horror of murder.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus quoted from many scriptures but never from Enoch. But Jesus did appear to be referring to Gen 6 when he said men were marrying in the day of Noah right before the flood came and the only verse that says so is the sons of god saw the daughters of men and took them wives, which is marrying, and then God says he will send the flood. This is a commentary by Jesus interpreting the sons of God as men, and I am going with Jesus. Jesus was well aware of the Book of Enoch and the controversy surrounding it at the time, and he interprets them as men putting to silence the foolishness of ignorant men. Case CLOSED.

Please excuse me for editing to just this Just to say:

Jesus also said in Matthew 5:9 that peacemakers would be called sons of God.

 

[Benadam]

I believe what is written in Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his [Adam's] own likeness, after his [Adam's] image; and called his name Seth

I believe all mankind is descended from Adam. However, my generation is far removed from Adam and, depending on your age, your generation may be removed further than my generation.

My kids are one generation further removed from Adam than I am. My grandkids are two generations further removed from Adam ... and their kids will be three ... and on and on.

Why is that not written of Cain and Abel if we are to understand it as a given? I see in our times the human family devastated for lack of sons even having present the image of their father in the image of God in the maternal environment in which they are 'raised'.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Please excuse me for editing to just this Just to say:

Jesus also said in Matthew 5:9 that peacemakers would be called sons of God.

very cool Magenta!!!

(all your "stuff" is great ... just commenting on the new display ... the various verses you were able to embed )

 

[Magenta]

very cool Magenta!!!

(all your "stuff" is great ... just commenting on the new display ... the various verses you were able to embed )

Thank you very much, reneweddaybyday! Do you recognize Marilyn's angelic face?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why is that not written of Cain and Abel if we are to understand it as a given?

God tells us Abel was righteous ... I do not know if Abel had any children. I do not believe he did (or if he did, God does not speak of the generations of Abel).

God gives some information about descendants of Cain in Gen 4 but not much. God's main focus is on the line of believers. God does tell us that Cain was of that wicked one (1 John 3:12) and God gives warning to believers about those who have gone in the way of Cain (Jude 1:11).

For the most part, God focuses on the generations of believers beginning in Gen 5. The generations of Adam from Adam to Seth to Noah.

Then in Gen 6:9 the generations of Noah.

Gen 10 - the generations of the sons of Noah.

Gen 11:10 - generations of Shem (believing line).

Gen 11:27 - generations of Terah (father of Abraham).

Gen 25:9 - generations of Isaac.

Gen 37:2 - generations of Jacob.


There is some information given about the generations of Ishmael (Gen 25:13) and Esau (Gen 36).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

[QUOTE="Magenta, post: 4451025, member: 223505"]Thank you very much, reneweddaybyday! Do you recognize Marilyn's angelic face? [/QUOTE]
I did not ... but now that you have pointed that out ... yes I do. I always enjoy your artwork when I see it in threads (even if I don't comment)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thank you very much, reneweddaybyday! Do you recognize Marilyn's angelic face?

I did not ... but now that you have pointed that out ... yes I do. I always enjoy your artwork when I see it in threads (even if I don't comment).

 

[Magenta]

I did not ... but now that you have pointed that out ... yes I do. I always enjoy your artwork when I see it in threads (even if I don't comment).

Thank you once again, reneweddaybyday If you are a fan of Marilyn's, you may enjoy the
tribute vid I posted with the panel when I finally got it onto my Scripture Art thread here

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thank you once again, reneweddaybyday If you are a fan of Marilyn's, you may enjoy the
tribute vid I posted with the panel when I finally got it onto my Scripture Art thread here

thanks for the link ... I'll have to check out the thread. such beautiful work. I am not so artistically inclined. I am always amazed at the ability of artists to start with a blank canvas and end up with an image that started as an idea.

My oldest sister was artistic. She used to make paper dolls for me and two of my sisters. She'd draw the dolls and design outfits. We'd color the outfits. That was back in the day. Nowadays they've got stuff like this: paper dolls My granddaughters have some of those.

 

[Blik]

The book of Enoch was never considered inspired.

Could you tell us where you learned this?

Most of Enoch was found in the dead sea scrolls, but I have found nothing to say they did or didn't believe it is scripture. Certainly, they studied it.

 

[Melach]

Angels (deamons) seek to possess people because they are not physical Beings, they are influencing spirits in a world of physical humans.



In effect you believe God gave angels (Who scripture says neither marry nor are given in marriage) testosterone?

If so then they had to be deliberately designed to be sexually frustrated for eternity, desiring intercourse but being prohibited.

And, then God needed to have of course deliberately also given angels some kind of genetically-adaptable sperm. ( The type that could successfully impregnate human females and create a cross angelic spirit/physical form super-human if they felt like it?)

And, when they came down and deceived woman or raped them or lured them into cross breeding and creating giant offspring with six toes and fingers - God would then have punished these fallen perverted angels by regretting he had made mankind and going on to wipe out almost the entire human population in a flood. (Only for giants to continue thriving after the flood, such as Og and Goliath.)

It is not biblical or logical. Sorry to be so blunt - but it really would not be very glorifying to God to follow that line of
Thought.

what do you believe then?

 

[posthuman]

The word Lucifer is only used once in all of scripture. It's a Latin word & shouldn't even be there. If you do a study of the original word used it appears many times & is always translated lightbearer.

no,

the Hebrew word is only used once in all the scripture. that's part of why it has been so difficult to translate.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

where did nephilim come from then? you should believe #1 too

i listen to dispensationalist pastors alot. mostly actually, exclusively to be honest its all i listen to prety much. i love them

they agree its #1. you should go for party line hahaha

would someone like t weigh in on who the " daughters of men " and " sons of God " are in Genesis 6:1-4?

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sins of God are those who call on the name of the lord

isnt angels

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sons of God began with Adam and concludes with Christians

“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What defines a sin of God is acceptance of the gospel

 

[Tararose]

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sins of God are those who call on the name of the lord

isnt angels

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the sons of God began with Adam and concludes with Christians

“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”

Good set of related verses. It is sadly a subject that is plagued with Theories basically taken from 2 unrelated verses in scripture and an apocryphal (supposed/fake) book of Enoch.

Ideas that God punishes mankind for angels sin and so on, just lack logic never mind scriptural origins.