nephilim

[Dino246]

The bible says they are administering spirits. . either of truth or after the god of this world Satan, the father of legion of lying spirits .

No, it doesn't. Hebrews 1:14 says that angels are ministering spirits, not "administering spirits". There is a difference. That passage says nothing at all about Satan or lying spirits. You're mixing unrelated concepts... again.

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

legion never comes as one. They have no form .

Scripture doesn't state anywhere that there is more than one 'legion' (demonic entity). It also doesn't state that "they" have no form. You're adding to Scripture. That has become a bad habit with you.

 

[Hungry]

Don't you believe the word Elohim means the God of God's or the one true God? Don't you think that Angles or angelic beings are spirit beings that may look and act like humans but are spirit and not mortal like humans? I'm troubled by your definition of the word elohim. Sons of heavenly beings plural? Sons of extraterrestrials is not a biblical term is it? Thank you for your comment.

Look it up. Elohim is plural. In Genesis, when it says Lord, God. It is the translation, Jehovah (self existent God) of gods. Elohim means heavenly beings. You wanted answers, that’s the answer. It states gods made us in their image. That’s why it says, “Let’s make man in our image after our own likeness.” That’s why they thought the women were beautiful and mates with them. There is conjecture that the spirits from these abominations are the “unclean spirits” that try to possess men, so they can again feel the pleasures that one can only attain in the flesh. Clearly that’s not is what is taught but that’s what it states. Greek mythology didn’t come from nothing. Every civilization tells tales about the star people corrupting genealogies.

 

[jacob_g]

The KJV translates the word "giant" from H5303-nephı̂yl and from H4794-râphâ'.

According to Strong's, H5303-nephı̂yl means a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant. BUT it says it is from H5307-nâphal, which means to fall. And in Num 13:33 it is referring to them as giant like, in their own sight they were as grasshoppers and in the sons of Anak sight too. So they were giants.

According to Strong's, H4794-râphâ' means a giant. You will find that KJV translates this as "Rephaims" in Gen 14:5 as well as other scriptures and as giants others.

Okay, so they were giants.... What is a giant? over 6'5" ? How does giant equal anything else but tall than others... maybe really tall.... but where do we get anything else?

Were they tall and skinny or all like Goliath? Could they have been just like "normal" really tall people... women who are really tall and play professional basketball or my pizza guy (from Pizza Hut) who is 6' 11" and at 6' 3" I am short....lol... for real...lol...

What is the average size of Jewish men? you gave Num 13:33 as a reference. For someone to be a giant they have to be compared to the average size people of the race you are comparing them to, like my pizza guy and me?.....

 

[PennEd]

Okay, so they were giants.... What is a giant? over 6'5" ? How does giant equal anything else but tall than others... maybe really tall.... but where do we get anything else?

Were they tall and skinny or all like Goliath? Could they have been just like "normal" really tall people... women who are really tall and play professional basketball or my pizza guy (from Pizza Hut) who is 6' 11" and at 6' 3" I am short....lol... for real...lol...

What is the average size of Jewish men? you gave Num 13:33 as a reference. For someone to be a giant they have to be compared to the average size people of the race you are comparing them to, like my pizza guy and me?.....

Here is the tallest human we know of. He grew to 8'11" The important thing to remember is that he, and other incredibly tall people, are that height because of a genetic disorder. This young man died in his early 20s.

This is vastly different to the giants in Scripture that were warriors or their whole race were incredibly tall. Goliath was at least 10' and maybe as much as 12'.

King Og of Bashan slept in a 15ft bed. As noted, the whole race of people the Israeli spies encountered made them feel like insects because they were so huge. I have been around a couple of guys in the upper 6 ft range, and although they were big, I certainly did not feel like an insect next to them and I'm a shade under 6 ft.

These beings were NOT fully human.

 

[garee]

No, it doesn't. Hebrews 1:14 says that angels are ministering spirits, not "administering spirits". There is a difference. That passage says nothing at all about Satan or lying spirits. You're mixing unrelated concepts... again.


Scripture doesn't state anywhere that there is more than one 'legion' (demonic entity). It also doesn't state that "they" have no form. You're adding to Scripture. That has become a bad habit with you.

What kind of form do the shapeshifters have what do they start out as . A snake a Human?

Yes all angels are ministering spirits .Satan the father of lies has no body. It why he brings his lies into a creation that has form, people Like Peter in Mathew 16:22-23. Peter was forgiven of blasphemy.

One legion made up all the angels as administering spirits of lies. When one lie comes they all join in. Its why those who seek after need of those gods they need idol image per communication... with the spirits or gods of lies.

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

I am not adding I anything its who are clearly subtracting.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Okay, so they were giants.... What is a giant? over 6'5" ? How does giant equal anything else but tall than others... maybe really tall.... but where do we get anything else?

To see where "we get anything else" consider how God treated the nephilim. God saw fit to utterly destroy them in the case of the flood. When nephilim reappeared in Sodom/Gomorrha, God again destroyed those cities, as well as the plains surrounding Sodom/Gomorrha. When the children of Israel entered into the promised land and encountered nephilim, God instructed the Israelites to utterly destroy them.

Then in 2 Peter 2:4-5, we also see reference to angelic involvement in the whole mess:

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly​

and in Jude 1:6-7:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.​

So, we not only have the utter destruction of nephilim in the flood, in Sodom, and when the children of Israel entered the promised land ... we also have some sort of involvement by angels that sinned (2 Pet 2:4) and which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation (Jude 1:6).

That's where we get "anything else" ...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the shapeshifters

Why not use the words of Scripture to describe them?

angels that sinned (2 Peter 2:4)
angels which kept not their first estate (Jude 1:6)


Good enough for God, good enough for us ...

 

[garee]

Okay, so they were giants.... What is a giant? over 6'5" ? How does giant equal anything else but tall than others... maybe really tall.... but where do we get anything else?

Were they tall and skinny or all like Goliath? Could they have been just like "normal" really tall people... women who are really tall and play professional basketball or my pizza guy (from Pizza Hut) who is 6' 11" and at 6' 3" I am short....lol... for real...lol...

What is the average size of Jewish men? you gave Num 13:33 as a reference. For someone to be a giant they have to be compared to the average size people of the race you are comparing them to, like my pizza guy and me?.....

It does not equal anything other than they were bullies that had no faith in God. some taller than others. God sent his bully David as a ,man of renown .The taller guy Goliath seemed like a grasshopper to David . We all seem like grasshopper to God.

There were bullies before and after the flood. The same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Evil is not attributed to men of renoun in all 11 uses. .

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (believers) came in unto the daughters of men,(non believers) and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Ezekiel 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

The seed spiritual of Christ was passed through Noah family. . .Shem

The Nephilim are the 'Fallen Ones', and the 'Marvelous Ones'. Bullies in each camp.

 

[garee]

To see where "we get anything else" consider how God treated the nephilim. God saw fit to utterly destroy them in the case of the flood. When nephilim reappeared in Sodom/Gomorrha, God again destroyed those cities, as well as the plains surrounding Sodom/Gomorrha. When the children of Israel entered into the promised land and encountered nephilim, God instructed the Israelites to utterly destroy them.

There is no reason why we would give lying spirits form . We do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither are we defended by it .

We walk by faith the unseen eternal. . not after the temporal ,what the lust of eye sees .

It would seem to be the goal of the father of lies called the legion a murderer from the beginning. He need flesh and blood to work out his lies. as he did with Peter in Mathew 16:22-23

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.


23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Things of men seen verses the things of God not seen .(the faith principle) . Not things of shapeshifters the things seen verses the things of God not seen

God sent his two men as messengers or evangelist to Sodom called angels. Where does the giant come in?

They were men that desired to have sex with out men .even when offered females. The bullies attacked the messenger and said who made you judge.

Same thing happening today when the gospel is presenting to the homosexual comuninity . Next time he will destroy the whole corrupted human race .

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door .Genesis 19:5-9

Lot put his own life in jeopardy in order to get the gospel out.

I would think Hollywood takes over from there using the special effects department . Science fiction one of my favorite genres

 

[Dino246]

What kind of form do the shapeshifters have what do they start out as . A snake a Human?

Yes all angels are ministering spirits .Satan the father of lies has no body. It why he brings his lies into a creation that has form, people Like Peter in Mathew 16:22-23. Peter was forgiven of blasphemy.

One legion made up all the angels as administering spirits of lies. When one lie comes they all join in. Its why those who seek after need of those gods they need idol image per communication... with the spirits or gods of lies.

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

I am not adding I anything its who are clearly subtracting.

There you go talking about shapeshifters again. I don't know what fantasy novel are you reading, but that isn't in the Bible.

Your ideas are getting wackier by the week. At least your posts are mildly entertaining, as long as nobody expects to find biblical truth in most of them.

 

[Scribe]

would someone like t weigh in on who the " daughters of men " and " sons of God " are in Genesis 6:1-4?

Wouldn't it be great if Jesus commented on Gen 6:2 so we could know how He interpreted the sons of god?

Well, it turns out he did when he said ..in Matt 24:37-38 ...
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Now every scholar interprets Jesus saying here as referring to MEN marrying in the days of Noah before the flood. THE ONLY SCRIPTURE that references this activity of marrying in the days of Noah is Gen 6:2. Therefore Jesus and his disciples understood this as MEN and not angels. This should end the controversy but it won't.

 

[Dino246]

The taller guy Goliath seemed like a grasshopper to David .

Really? Which verse tells you that?

 

[PennEd]

Wouldn't it be great if Jesus commented on Gen 6:2 so we could know how He interpreted the sons of god?

Well, it turns out he did when he said ..in Matt 24:37-38 ...
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Now every scholar interprets Jesus saying here as referring to MEN marrying in the days of Noah before the flood. THE ONLY SCRIPTURE that references this activity of marrying in the days of Noah is Gen 6:2. Therefore Jesus and his disciples understood this as MEN and not angels. This should end the controversy but it won't.

Every scholar does NOT recognize that they are men in Genesis 6. Where did you get that nonsense?

But I'm glad you posted that passage. We are currently seeing the same type of sin that led to God having to wipe out ALL corrupted flesh. The sin of altering His creation through DNA manipulation.

You would have to have your head in the sand not to know how we are mixing species DNA, EVEN with human DNA. And if God doesn't intervene.....
Matthew 24:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [a]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

 

[Dino246]

Wouldn't it be great if Jesus commented on Gen 6:2 so we could know how He interpreted the sons of god?

Well, it turns out he did when he said ..in Matt 24:37-38 ...
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Now every scholar interprets Jesus saying here as referring to MEN marrying in the days of Noah before the flood. THE ONLY SCRIPTURE that references this activity of marrying in the days of Noah is Gen 6:2. Therefore Jesus and his disciples understood this as MEN and not angels. This should end the controversy but it won't.

You've made a logical error here. Jesus didn't say "men marrying"; He said "they" were marrying. Your conclusion doesn't follow from your evidence.

 

[Dino246]

There is no reason why we would give lying spirits form .

We don't give form to lying spirits. Either they have it, independently of us, or they don't.

It would seem to be the goal of the father of lies called the legion a murderer from the beginning.

That isn't even a sentence. You really need to learn basic English grammar.

God sent his two men as messengers or evangelist to Sodom called angels. Where does the giant come in?

You're mixing up Genesis 6 with Genesis 19.

Lot put his own life in jeopardy in order to get the gospel out.

Where do you get this hogwash? Nowhere is it even hinted that Lot was "getting the gospel out".

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God sent his bully David

Please provide Scripture which indicates God ever referred to David as "bully".

Evil is not attributed to men of renoun in all 11 uses. .

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (believers) came in unto the daughters of men,(non believers) and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Ezekiel 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

In Gen 6:4 and Ez 16:14, the word "renown" is the Hebrew word shem.

In Gen 6:4, the nephilim are referred to as "men of renown". If (as you would have us believe) they were so wonderful, why were they utterly destroyed in the flood?

In Ez 16:14, the city of Jerusalem is referred to as "renown" (shem) and God tells us in vss 8-13 how He brought the land from ruin to beauty and in vs 14 He tells us the beauty of Jerusalem was His doing.


In Isaiah 14:20, the word "renowned" is the Hebrew word qara.

Isaiah 14 speaks of the king of Babylon (vs 3).

Is 14:13-14 describes the sin of the king.

In Is 14:20, God tells us that because the king of Babylon destroyed the land and slew his people, the king would never be distinguished or honored. The king of Babylon would never lie in glory as other kings of nations (Is 14:18). People would gaze upon the king of Babylon and consider him saying Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners (Is 14:16-17)?


So, in 2 of the 3 examples shown, it appears you are wrong in your statement that "evil is not attributed to men of renoun".

The "men of renown" in Gen 6 were utterly destroyed in the flood when God brought the flood on the world of the ungodly (2 Pet 2:5).

Again I ask you, garee, did God destroy believers when He brought the flood upon the world of the ungodly?

The man of "renown" in Is 14:20 was brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit (Is 14:15).

The Nephilim are the 'Fallen Ones', and the 'Marvelous Ones'. Bullies in each camp.

Nope. nephilim are the children which resulted when the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them (Gen 6:4). And the nephilim were utterly destroyed each and every time they cropped up.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God sent his two men as messengers or evangelist to Sodom called angels.

God sent two angels to Sodom:

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even

That you refuse to believe God sent His angels to Sodom to get Lot out of the city does not change God's angels into "men as messengers or evangelist to Sodom called angels".

Angels brought Lot out of Sodom.

 

[Mii]

I'm curious why it matters?

I've believed a lot of my life that it was co-mingling of fallen angels with the daughters of men and then in the last 2 years "ish" I came across the sons of God being Sethites and warping their bloodlines with fallen men "cainites".

Much like with dogs perhaps selective breeding occurred but who cares? The flood wiped out the things God chose to...and we won't know. So why bother gesticulating on it? Who knows? The Lord.

It is not clear. I would stand by the sethite route (even though that is not as exciting) based off the balaam account. There's enough in the sexual rebellion to satisfy any truth seeker, to be unequally yoked, and to fall into sin to consider and meditate on. Apostasy and what follows. Rebellion and the results thereof.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It is not clear. I would stand by the sethite route

I have asked this question before and it has not been answered:

If we go with the sons of God being believing men and we go with the daughters of men being unbelieving women wherein there is a believer being unequally yoked together with an unbeliever, how do we end up with no believers other than Noah and his family?

That just does not make sense.

Even in our day and time when we have a marriage where a believer is unequally yoked to an unbeliever, the believer teaches the children about God. Maybe not to the extent as two believing parents, but there is some teaching going on.

Also in our day and time we have believers who were raised by unbelieving parents as the believers witness to unbelievers.

But in the days of Noah, we have no believers at all with the exception of Noah and his family.

Either that, or God destroyed believers after God shut Noah in the ark and did not allow believers in.

Then, we have the issue of the the angels that sinned:

2 Peter 2:4-5 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly​

What did these angels do which caused God to cast them down to hell, deliver them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment?

In agreement that we don't have the whole story about exactly what went on back in days of Noah.

But the sons of God being believing men and daughters of men being unbelieving women just doesn't make sense. The flood of Noah's time was God's judgment. Angels that sinned were cast down to hell and bound in chains of darkness. nephilim were utterly destroyed. Noah and his family (believers) were saved by grace through faith.

 

[Hungry]

Not to derail this thread, but this whole thread is a fantastic example of why some think the Bible is fallible. We are all reading from the same passages and what the obvious logical, however baffling truth is, that angelic beings mated with human women, won’t be accepted because of preconceptions. If people had no prior thoughts to angels being spirits, it would be obvious. Literally every culture tells this same story, the Sumerians; the Annunaki, gods from space came and made man then corrupted the genes by mating with them. The Greeks; the gods were known to visit women and bare them children who became “heroes” or demi gods. There are others all over the world I have read. Many elites and secret societies are based on their lineage tracing back to this mixed breed heritage. If you notice the “Skull and Bones” (secret organization that many American leaders belong to before they were leaders) logo, the skull and bones are asymmetrical.

The obvious question is why would Spiritual messengers find women sexy? Instead of questioning whether there are beings in the Heavens (outer space) that are physical, we assume Heaven is some separate realm, and everyone there is a spirit. I find many things puzzling like when the angels broke Peter out of prison. Was it “Spiritual” or technological? If we dropped down in helicopters into some primitive land, and picked an individual to bring a message to his people, would we appear as gods from the heavens? Perhaps we should reread the Bible with no preconceptions to take us down paths of familiarity. Just read what it says. “Sons of the gods and the daughters of men...”, that’s what it says.