Natural or spiritual?

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,263
3,098
113
#1
Berean Standard Bible 1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Adam was created a living being. He had created life withing him. The Bible calls this natural life or soul life. This is the life that Lord Jesus wants us to lose, and we must lose if we wish to be spiritual.

That Adam's natural life was insufficient was demonstrated by the fact that there was the Tree of Life in Eden. God's intent was that Adam would choose the fruit of the tree of life. Instead, Adam chose the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The fruit of the "knowledge tree" killed Adam and Eve spiritually. They became estranged from God. The first Adam brought death to all mankind.

Jesus came to restore mankind to God and make us spiritually alive once more. However, we still have the natural life of Adam dwelling within as well as the life of Christ. You may think of it like two wells. We can draw from the well of "living water" or keep going back to the well of "knowledge"

To keep this brief, I will give an example of both lives. Moses in his natural ability managed to kill one Egyptian. He fled to the wilderness where he lived for 40 years. In that time, we became the most humble of men. In the power of God, Moses led the tribes of Israel out of captivity and out of the snare of Egypt. God, through Moses, destroyed the army of Egypt. One man or a whole army? What a difference the power of God makes!

We may need decades to realise that the power of the soul-life is nothing compared to life in the Spirit. God will work in us to release us from the control of the natural man. This can be be hard. It may entail much suffering. God's ways are not our ours and make no sense to the natural man. God even wants us to relinquish our gifts if necessary. God required Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the child of promise. Abraham had learned enough to obey God without question. And that is the secret. When we know God, not just know about Him, we will be better able to obey no matter what.

Every time we obey God, even though it hurts deeply, the natural man loosens his grip on us. We do not realise the hold that self has on us until it is exposed by the pressures of life. It helps to know that God is entirely on our side and has nothing but love and compassion for us. He knows how strong we are in all the wrong ways.

God brought the Israelites out of Egypt into the promised land. God brought Israel out of Egypt. Then He got Egypt out of the Israelites. All but two of the escapees from Egypt perished in the wilderness. All that was proud, rebellious and worldly was removed from Israel. Only then were they fit from the promised land. Are we willing to exchange what we are for all that Jesus can be in us, if we will let Him? Likely not. All that God asks of us is to be willing. He will work in us to cause us to be willing and to do what pleases Him.

The difference is heaven or hell. I wrestled with these issues for way longer than I should have. God's grace got me through and so now I am content. I don't see it that clearly but others do for sure. It is the place the Bible calls "The knowledge of the Truth." It's a place of peace that passes understanding and joy indescribable. It's the only way to live.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,401
435
83
#2
Berean Standard Bible 1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Adam was created a living being. He had created life withing him. The Bible calls this natural life or soul life. This is the life that Lord Jesus wants us to lose, and we must lose if we wish to be spiritual.

That Adam's natural life was insufficient was demonstrated by the fact that there was the Tree of Life in Eden. God's intent was that Adam would choose the fruit of the tree of life. Instead, Adam chose the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The fruit of the "knowledge tree" killed Adam and Eve spiritually. They became estranged from God. The first Adam brought death to all mankind.

Jesus came to restore mankind to God and make us spiritually alive once more. However, we still have the natural life of Adam dwelling within as well as the life of Christ. You may think of it like two wells. We can draw from the well of "living water" or keep going back to the well of "knowledge"

To keep this brief, I will give an example of both lives. Moses in his natural ability managed to kill one Egyptian. He fled to the wilderness where he lived for 40 years. In that time, we became the most humble of men. In the power of God, Moses led the tribes of Israel out of captivity and out of the snare of Egypt. God, through Moses, destroyed the army of Egypt. One man or a whole army? What a difference the power of God makes!

We may need decades to realise that the power of the soul-life is nothing compared to life in the Spirit. God will work in us to release us from the control of the natural man. This can be be hard. It may entail much suffering. God's ways are not our ours and make no sense to the natural man. God even wants us to relinquish our gifts if necessary. God required Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the child of promise. Abraham had learned enough to obey God without question. And that is the secret. When we know God, not just know about Him, we will be better able to obey no matter what.

Every time we obey God, even though it hurts deeply, the natural man loosens his grip on us. We do not realise the hold that self has on us until it is exposed by the pressures of life. It helps to know that God is entirely on our side and has nothing but love and compassion for us. He knows how strong we are in all the wrong ways.

God brought the Israelites out of Egypt into the promised land. God brought Israel out of Egypt. Then He got Egypt out of the Israelites. All but two of the escapees from Egypt perished in the wilderness. All that was proud, rebellious and worldly was removed from Israel. Only then were they fit from the promised land. Are we willing to exchange what we are for all that Jesus can be in us, if we will let Him? Likely not. All that God asks of us is to be willing. He will work in us to cause us to be willing and to do what pleases Him.

The difference is heaven or hell. I wrestled with these issues for way longer than I should have. God's grace got me through and so now I am content. I don't see it that clearly but others do for sure. It is the place the Bible calls "The knowledge of the Truth." It's a place of peace that passes understanding and joy indescribable. It's the only way to live.
Life or death is placed for us all to choose to believe God, Father of risen Son Jesus or not consciously so.
This truth is between God and you, and you, and you and me, not anyone else to get in the way, which messes people up in God simply loves us all. How so?God through Son Jesus went to the cross willingly. He knew troubles were going to be there, and he said nevertheless your will Father, not mine! He teaches me, "The art of Fighting without Fighting" seen risen by over 500 witnesses, seen by those that got him killed, revealed in Col 2
Therefore, believe, receive and see, and one will, eventually see too, provided one does not give up on belief to God, even if go through adversities too.
This Love is beyond Human understanding in the natural physical flesh. One needs to be born again by God in risen Son for them too.
All it takes is: Belief
B-eyond
E-ternity
L-iving
I-n
E-ternity
F-orever
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
251
108
43
#3
It wasn't fruit from the tree of knowledge of good nd evil that killed Adam and Eve, it was disobedience to the Lord that did it. Adm was created whole, with the Holy Spirit indwelling him. When he disobeyed the Lord, the Holy Spirit removed hiimself from Adam which the original Hebrew bring out by saying, "in dying thou shalt surely die". Knowledge of good and evil, in my opinion, prepared Adam and Eve for life without direct communion with the Lord. My translation calls Adam a liviing soul. His sin caused his descendants to be born without the Holy Spirit's indwelling, which made it impossible for mankind to follow the Spirit.

I've often thought that this was the Lord's goal, so that in eternity; mankind could be redeemed from the curse of death by the Lamb that was to be slain from before the beginning of the world. This made it possible for us to walk with the Lord throughout eternity without a death penality hanging over us for the slighest offence. Jesus' sacrifice set us free for all eternity and in New Jerusalem, we'll only have one sin that will seperate us from the Lord and as long as we refrain from doing it, we'll be choosing the Lord and I suspect that the Lord Jesus would have a long talk with anyone before they were to actually blaspheme the Holy Spirit once we're in heaven.

Once we've been born of the Spirit and made one with the Lord by the Holy Spirit's indwelling, we have a choise of following the flesh or to follow the Spirit. The eternal scriptures will always lead us to righteousness by fulfilling the promise of the New Covenant by writing the Lord's commandments and statutes onto the tables of our hearts and minds which in turn transforms us into Jesus' image, here a little and there a little. This process purges our consciences from dead works to serve the living God.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,263
3,098
113
#4
It wasn't fruit from the tree of knowledge of good nd evil that killed Adam and Eve, it was disobedience to the Lord that did it. Adm was created whole, with the Holy Spirit indwelling him. When he disobeyed the Lord, the Holy Spirit removed hiimself from Adam which the original Hebrew bring out by saying, "in dying thou shalt surely die". Knowledge of good and evil, in my opinion, prepared Adam and Eve for life without direct communion with the Lord. My translation calls Adam a liviing soul. His sin caused his descendants to be born without the Holy Spirit's indwelling, which made it impossible for mankind to follow the Spirit.

I've often thought that this was the Lord's goal, so that in eternity; mankind could be redeemed from the curse of death by the Lamb that was to be slain from before the beginning of the world. This made it possible for us to walk with the Lord throughout eternity without a death penality hanging over us for the slighest offence. Jesus' sacrifice set us free for all eternity and in New Jerusalem, we'll only have one sin that will seperate us from the Lord and as long as we refrain from doing it, we'll be choosing the Lord and I suspect that the Lord Jesus would have a long talk with anyone before they were to actually blaspheme the Holy Spirit once we're in heaven.

Once we've been born of the Spirit and made one with the Lord by the Holy Spirit's indwelling, we have a choise of following the flesh or to follow the Spirit. The eternal scriptures will always lead us to righteousness by fulfilling the promise of the New Covenant by writing the Lord's commandments and statutes onto the tables of our hearts and minds which in turn transforms us into Jesus' image, here a little and there a little. This process purges our consciences from dead works to serve the living God.
No, the Holy Spirit did not indwell Adam. Adam had a choice to make. If the Holy Spirit indwelt Adam, there was no need for the tree of life, which represents Lord Jesus.

There are 3 words for life in Greek. We have only one. There is "bios", natural/physical life, "psuche", the life that resides in the soul, and "zoe", the uncreated life of God. It is "zoe"" life that is in Jesus and that He gives to whom He pleases.

The word translated "soul" in the KJV is better translated as being. It does not mean "soul" as in mind, emotion and will. Even now, the travel industry says "souls" when they mean people. "SOS" - save our souls refers to the whole person, not just the literal soul.

There is an important distinction between the life of the soul and the flesh. The flesh is more obvious. Greed, sexual lust, overeating and such are obviously wrong. It is harder to discern the natural life of the soul. Many who overcome the flesh are still bound by the natural life. Peter was much concerned for the welfare of Jesus. Yet his good intention earned him a rebuke, not praise. Peter had just received a wonderful revelation. He then succumbed to Satan's temptation. Who could fault Peter? Yet he was wrong.

I believe that few Christians know the difference between soul and spirit and so go by what they think and feel. Only God's word can divide soul and spirit. The spirit must be strengthened and filled with revelation of God's word. The soul must be brought into subjection to the spirit. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit. God does not deal with us directly. He leads us in the spirit man by His Holy Spirit. We then choose to follow that leading - or not.

The natural man does not know the things of God. They seem foolish to him. Especially in the early days of the Christian's walk, he will find much controversy as his natural thoughts, feelings and opinions argue with God's word. Giving is a good indication. A random survey of believers discovered that almost all thought that giving at least 10% was biblical. However, comparatively few actually gave even a tithe. Why? It makes no sense to the intellect. However, those who know the truth realise that God's economic system is not like the world. I learned that lesson with much difficulty. And many, many others as well.

Ask God to show you the truth of what I'm saying. If you can grasp it, you will be on the way to the greatest peace and joy. It comes not only from overcoming sin, but from an intimate walk with Jesus that is the greatest fulfillment we can have in this life. It's a lifetime work and far from easy. It is absolutely worth it, whatever the cost.
 
Oct 24, 2012
16,401
435
83
#5
No, the Holy Spirit did not indwell Adam. Adam had a choice to make. If the Holy Spirit indwelt Adam, there was no need for the tree of life, which represents Lord Jesus.

There are 3 words for life in Greek. We have only one. There is "bios", natural/physical life, "psuche", the life that resides in the soul, and "zoe", the uncreated life of God. It is "zoe"" life that is in Jesus and that He gives to whom He pleases.

The word translated "soul" in the KJV is better translated as being. It does not mean "soul" as in mind, emotion and will. Even now, the travel industry says "souls" when they mean people. "SOS" - save our souls refers to the whole person, not just the literal soul.

There is an important distinction between the life of the soul and the flesh. The flesh is more obvious. Greed, sexual lust, overeating and such are obviously wrong. It is harder to discern the natural life of the soul. Many who overcome the flesh are still bound by the natural life. Peter was much concerned for the welfare of Jesus. Yet his good intention earned him a rebuke, not praise. Peter had just received a wonderful revelation. He then succumbed to Satan's temptation. Who could fault Peter? Yet he was wrong.

I believe that few Christians know the difference between soul and spirit and so go by what they think and feel. Only God's word can divide soul and spirit. The spirit must be strengthened and filled with revelation of God's word. The soul must be brought into subjection to the spirit. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit. God does not deal with us directly. He leads us in the spirit man by His Holy Spirit. We then choose to follow that leading - or not.

The natural man does not know the things of God. They seem foolish to him. Especially in the early days of the Christian's walk, he will find much controversy as his natural thoughts, feelings and opinions argue with God's word. Giving is a good indication. A random survey of believers discovered that almost all thought that giving at least 10% was biblical. However, comparatively few actually gave even a tithe. Why? It makes no sense to the intellect. However, those who know the truth realise that God's economic system is not like the world. I learned that lesson with much difficulty. And many, many others as well.

Ask God to show you the truth of what I'm saying. If you can grasp it, you will be on the way to the greatest peace and joy. It comes not only from overcoming sin, but from an intimate walk with Jesus that is the greatest fulfillment we can have in this life. It's a lifetime work and far from easy. It is absolutely worth it, whatever the cost.

Hebrews 4:9-13

Authorized (King James) Version

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

And by the cross He, Jesus has overcome the world of death for us all, even though we still die physically


John 16:33

Authorized (King James) Version

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

God has overcome the world for us, why are we still fighting. reckon self dead to the first born flesh and sin no more by Faith it is done for you in risen Son to you, thanks to God Father of us all