My take on water baptism...

[Nehemiah6]

The thin[g] we don't like is people getting water baptized and thinking they are saved.

That's really does not concern you. That is God's business. If you have preached the true Gospel and someone says that they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, that must be accepted in good faith. See Acts 8.

Water does not save anyone.

That's a given and should not even be raised as an issue. No one here is saying that water saves anyone, so that is just a red herring.

People need to be baptized in Holy Spirit.

That's also a given, but it DOES NOT PRECLUDE water baptism. And therein lies your error. Water baptism is a commandment of Christ, not an option for you or anyone to dismiss on a whim.

The actual baptism is found in Romans 10:9, 10. It's not water, but faith or genuine trust.

Well let's see if that is really the case: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As you can see, this passage has nothing to say about baptism, but much to say about (1) believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and (2) confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus.

And where and when do people confess with their mouth their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? It is at the time when they are publicly baptized by immersion! They give their Christian testimony and then they are baptized.

 

[Joseph1949]

That's really does not concern you. That is God's business. If you have preached the true Gospel and someone says that they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, that must be accepted in good faith. See Acts 8.

That's a given and should not even be raised as an issue. No one here is saying that water saves anyone, so that is just a red herring.

That's also a given, but it DOES NOT PRECLUDE water baptism. And therein lies your error. Water baptism is a commandment of Christ, not an option for you or anyone to dismiss on a whim.

Well let's see if that is really the case: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As you can see, this passage has nothing to say about baptism, but much to say about (1) believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and (2) confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus.

And where and when do people confess with their mouth their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? It is at the time when they are publicly baptized by immersion! They give their Christian testimony and then they are baptized.

I don't know where to start with this...I don't agree with any of your comments...but every one is entitled to an opinion. I just don't have the time right now, maybe later..

 

[Peterlag]

I don't know where to start with this...I don't agree with any of your comments...but every one is entitled to an opinion. I just don't have the time right now, maybe later..

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

 

[Joseph1949]

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

Tradition..

 

[Scribe]

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

Read the New Testament, it's all very clear. You are being purposely misleading.

 

[Guojing]

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

The key is to stick to Paul's clear exposition of what saves us

Romans 3:21 and Romans 4:5

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Lafftur]

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

We are ONLY saved by the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, we are born again with WATER and SPIRIT....

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:5&version=KJV

Water Baptism is a sign that we believe in Jesus Christ and are entering into covenant with God for salvation of our soul.

We are sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit as Believers.

Water Baptism does NOT save us - ONLY the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ can save but, Water Baptism is a sign of covenant.

 

[Guojing]

Water Baptism does NOT save us - ONLY the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ can save but, Water Baptism is a sign of covenant.

So what do you think of this doctrine then?

Since -- in the Bible -- all those who were saved were baptized, it would be fair to say that anyone refusing or objecting to baptism is not saved.

 

[Peterlag]

The key is to stick to Paul's clear exposition of what saves us

Romans 3:21 and Romans 4:5

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I agree.

 

[Joseph1949]

We are ONLY saved by the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, we are born again with WATER and SPIRIT....

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:5&version=KJV

Water Baptism is a sign that we believe in Jesus Christ and are entering into covenant with God for salvation of our soul.

We are sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit as Believers.

Water Baptism does NOT save us - ONLY the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ can save but, Water Baptism is a sign of covenant.

You do , I hope understand that it was no yet available to get born again in the period of the Gospels? Water baptist is all they had.

 

[posthuman]

Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

Perhaps now you understand that it is important to know what the symbolism and type of water is in the scripture?

Maybe you will answer my question soon

 

[fredoheaven]

How about a few examples where Paul Baptized in water? Perhaps 1 or 2 done by the other Apostles? I will wait.

keep you waited so long, anyways here's the passage and to take note that it was personally done by the Apostle Paul himself. No water, no Holy Spirit, that would be a tie but what's left is the administrator, Paul says "I" not the "holy Spirit" so, it's not about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, hence, water baptism.


1 Corinthians 1:14-16

King James Version


14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

 

[posthuman]

Thanks, no need for such remarks though. Just discuss how you understand, without judging others.

Progressive revelation is how I interpret scripture. God reveals truth gradually over time. I don't use my current understanding, based on what Paul has revealed to us, and attempt to insert them into Abraham's understanding.

For like the 49th time, I will tell you again:
ignorance of the details of the gospel does not make it a "different gospel" preached in the scripture in one place vs another.

The whole Bible is God's revelation of this singular gospel. The room you walk into was not a different room before the light was turned on - and it is not 'projecting' to understand that Genesis 15 is a testimony of Christ.

As long as you see it as false imaginations, refusing to believe, you won't understand it.

It is not a "different gospel" preached to Abraham just because he did not have the book of Romans to read.

 

[Scribe]

keep you waited so long, anyways here's the passage and to take note that it was personally done by the Apostle Paul himself. No water, no Holy Spirit, that would be a tie but what's left is the administrator, Paul says "I" not the "holy Spirit" so, it's not about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, hence, water baptism.


1 Corinthians 1:14-16

King James Version


14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

Also remember this ....

We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

Now he was there, and directed this... the 12 were re-baptized in the name of Jesus

 

[posthuman]

Was that bird killed over running water trying to land on Noah's Ark?

Noah's ark is Christ.
Moses's ark is Christ.
The ark of the Testimony is Christ.

The two birds in Genesis 15 speak of Christ. The two birds in Leviticus 14 speak of Christ.

by water and by blood, through water and through blood. We need to understand what water means, and what blood means.

A thread full of 'immersion in water doesn't save you' is not edifying anyone. A thread filled with 'because I didn't yet know the details it must be another gospel' isn't edifying anyone.

What about we figure out what these things mean, how they are figures of the LORD our Salvation?
It is through knowledge of God that we have life. We hope to spend eternity knowing Him. Does it not stand to reason that we should search Him out on this topic?

I don't want to waste time on y'alls weird pet doctrines; i want to speak and read of Him.

 

[Guojing]

For like the 49th time, I will tell you again:
ignorance of the details of the gospel does not make it a "different gospel" preached in the scripture in one place vs another.

The whole Bible is God's revelation of this singular gospel. The room you walk into was not a different room before the light was turned on - and it is not 'projecting' to understand that Genesis 15 is a testimony of Christ.

As long as you see it as false imaginations, refusing to believe, you won't understand it.

It is not a "different gospel" preached to Abraham just because he did not have the book of Romans to read.

Genesis 15
After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

I am saying the gospel or good news, that was in the context of Genesis 15, is that he will have descendants as numerous as the stars.

That's all. If you insist on inserting 1 Cor 15:1-4 into that passage, I cannot stop you from doing so.

 

[posthuman]

Genesis 15
After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

I am saying the gospel or good news, that was in the context of Genesis 15, is that he will have descendants as numerous as the stars.

That's all. If you insist on inserting 1 Cor 15:1-4 into that passage, I cannot stop you from doing so.

I pointed you to 8-18

Why are you still carrying on about the wrong passage?

 

[Guojing]

I pointed you to 8-18

Why are you still carrying on about the wrong passage?

Because we are talking about verse 6, the verse that was used by Paul in Galatians 3 and many people here in this forum, when they claimed that Abraham believed the same gospel that we do.

 

[posthuman]

Because we are talking about verse 6, the verse that was used by Paul in Galatians 3 and many people here in this forum, when they claimed that Abraham believed the same gospel that we do.

Well you may be talking about v 6, but I am talking about vv 8-18
So i don't know why you are talking about v 6 in response to my pointing you to vv 8-18 other than perhaps you do not comprehend vv 8-18 and can't understand why it is the gospel. So you bring up some nearby verse instead for which you have a few prepared comments?

Look at vv 8-18.
See if you can find Salvation in it?

 

[garee]

Noah's ark is Christ.
Moses's ark is Christ.
The ark of the Testimony is Christ.

The two birds in Genesis 15 speak of Christ. The two birds in Leviticus 14 speak of Christ.

by water and by blood, through water and through blood. We need to understand what water means, and what blood means.

A thread full of 'immersion in water doesn't save you' is not edifying anyone. A thread filled with 'because I didn't yet know the details it must be another gospel' isn't edifying anyone.

What about we figure out what these things mean, how they are figures of the LORD our Salvation?
It is through knowledge of God that we have life. We hope to spend eternity knowing Him. Does it not stand to reason that we should search Him out on this topic?

I don't want to waste time on y'alls weird pet doctrines; i want to speak and read of Him.

Amen I would offer. We must learn to walk (understand) God not seen "by faith" (the unseen law) Called the law of faith.

I would think when the gospel understandings are hid of the parables, misunderstanding, faithless mankind creates images and look to another form of faith to seek after, as the things seen . Literal water and blood as doctrines of men

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

In teaching the Apostles how to walk by faith . Jesus hid the gospel understanding over and over in a series of parables (luke 8 and Mark 9) the two witnesses.

In Luke 9 after the apostles still in indecisive wonderment from the previous parable . Jesus spoke another hiding its understanding again to help them learn how to walk by faith. When he spoke it it was like Jesus had left the scene. They must of thought he went of the deep end. And then the apostles played who the greatest Alfa dog. Who the greatest. with the greatest within arms reach.. ? When he finished the last parable and the apostles who again misunderstood the parable and wanted fire to come down and destroy the gentiles in keeping up with their faithless "out of sight our on mind" pagan foundation . In verse 55 he rebuked them and informed them; "they knew not what "manner of spirit" they were of (faithless)

Changing the meaning of the metaphor giving it sight. Like with water and blood or water with blood. Both metaphors represent the unseen Holy Spirit. Like for instance the Bible informs us the life of the flesh is in the blood but that life is not literal blood but spirit life from the Father of spirits pouring out his love on flesh the power we do have in these earthen bodies..

Literal blood without the spirt of life must be poured out to show flesh and blood could never profit .its the unseen Faith that can .It is the power to believe

The dust and water of the field have no breath of life. Spirit life must be poured in them .