My non-Christian coworker

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NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
#21
Oops I didn’t post the entire page, just kidding, I felt it necessary to split it up. My apologies for the deception but If I had just presented my argument, most pastors are preaching works, I would have been stoned, called legalistic etc.

I work with this guy and for the last 15 years he comes to me at least once a week asking how to be saved. He works the Sunday shift, doesn’t attend a church, so I’m basically his only source for biblical teaching. Every time he asks how to be saved I simply say, “try to be more like Jesus.” He occasionally mentions a problem like alcoholism, to which I quote a bible verse on how being a drunkard is wrong and again tell him, try to be more like Jesus. He’s cheating on his wife, I quote a verse on adultery and give a call to action, be more like Christ. This has been the pattern for 15 years and he is still cheating on his wife, getting drunk every other night and coming to me week after week desperately seeking advice on how to be saved. Is my approach, the quoting of scripture paired with a call to action, biblical? What am I doing wrong?

This hypothetical situation was concocted in an effort to reveal the false, works based gospel the majority of modern day pastors teach.

For some, this works based salvation taught to my hypothetical coworker is easy to spot. In this scenario, I am this guys only source for biblical truth, he seeks my guidance every week and I simply toss out a verse and tell him to try harder to be more like Christ. Obviously this teaches that his salvation is dependent upon his decision to try. As a believer who understands salvation is given, not earned, I could never make this mistake week after week, year after year.

Over the past 20 years I’ve seen this tactic of preaching, a verse based sermon mixed with a life story, capped with an effort based call to action. This style of preaching would be acceptable if the room was entirely filled with Christians, but what if there’s a single nonbeliever? Then a distinction must be made, every time, without acceptation, right? A Christian pastor would never take, even the slightest chance, of preaching a works based gospel would he?

But that’s exactly what they’re doing. By continuously, purposefully, failing to make the distinction between the believer’s spirit guided effort in sanctification and the nonbelievers futile effort to be Christ like, they are in fact preaching works based salvation to nonbelievers.

Year after year these lukewarm tacticians preach a "soft message" which attracts a majority of nonbelievers. The formula of verse based, call to action preaching without distinction then teaches nonbelievers a works based salvation. A works based gospel is a false gospel no matter how it is presented. No matter how likable your pastor, no matter how much "good" he does for the community, if the product of is teaching is works salvation to nonbelievers then he is a false teacher. Your pastor may not realize this error, he may have simply adopted this preaching formula taught in many seminaries, be gentile but be vigilant.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#22
Oops I didn’t post the entire page, just kidding, I felt it necessary to split it up. My apologies for the deception but If I had just presented my argument, most pastors are preaching works, I would have been stoned, called legalistic etc.

I work with this guy and for the last 15 years he comes to me at least once a week asking how to be saved. He works the Sunday shift, doesn’t attend a church, so I’m basically his only source for biblical teaching. Every time he asks how to be saved I simply say, “try to be more like Jesus.” He occasionally mentions a problem like alcoholism, to which I quote a bible verse on how being a drunkard is wrong and again tell him, try to be more like Jesus. He’s cheating on his wife, I quote a verse on adultery and give a call to action, be more like Christ. This has been the pattern for 15 years and he is still cheating on his wife, getting drunk every other night and coming to me week after week desperately seeking advice on how to be saved. Is my approach, the quoting of scripture paired with a call to action, biblical? What am I doing wrong?

This hypothetical situation was concocted in an effort to reveal the false, works based gospel the majority of modern day pastors teach.

For some, this works based salvation taught to my hypothetical coworker is easy to spot. In this scenario, I am this guys only source for biblical truth, he seeks my guidance every week and I simply toss out a verse and tell him to try harder to be more like Christ. Obviously this teaches that his salvation is dependent upon his decision to try. As a believer who understands salvation is given, not earned, I could never make this mistake week after week, year after year.

Over the past 20 years I’ve seen this tactic of preaching, a verse based sermon mixed with a life story, capped with an effort based call to action. This style of preaching would be acceptable if the room was entirely filled with Christians, but what if there’s a single nonbeliever? Then a distinction must be made, every time, without acceptation, right? A Christian pastor would never take, even the slightest chance, of preaching a works based gospel would he?

But that’s exactly what they’re doing. By continuously, purposefully, failing to make the distinction between the believer’s spirit guided effort in sanctification and the nonbelievers futile effort to be Christ like, they are in fact preaching works based salvation to nonbelievers.

Year after year these lukewarm tacticians preach a "soft message" which attracts a majority of nonbelievers. The formula of verse based, call to action preaching without distinction then teaches nonbelievers a works based salvation. A works based gospel is a false gospel no matter how it is presented. No matter how likable your pastor, no matter how much "good" he does for the community, if the product of is teaching is works salvation to nonbelievers then he is a false teacher. Your pastor may not realize this error, he may have simply adopted this preaching formula taught in many seminaries, be gentile but be vigilant.
Depriving him of the good news of the Gospel is not good...imho
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,665
17,120
113
69
Tennessee
#25
This has been the pattern for 15 years and he is still cheating on his wife, getting drunk every other night and coming to me week after week desperately seeking advice on how to be saved. Is my approach, the quoting of scripture paired with a call to action, biblical? What am I doing wrong?

This hypothetical situation was concocted in an effort to reveal the false, works based gospel the majority of modern day pastors teach.
What would be your counsel to the wife who has suffered horribly for 15 years due an abusive alcoholic husband who gets drunk each night and cheats on her in every available opportunity? Hypothetically, of course.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
2,210
113
#26
What would be your counsel to the wife who has suffered horribly for 15 years due an abusive alcoholic husband who gets drunk each night and cheats on her in every available opportunity? Hypothetically, of course.
Assuming she is a believer I would first ask if she expects this to stop...

I'd need to know what shes going through and then ask why she has stayed so long.


I would feel awful if she just wanted to live out marriage as God designed it (forever) with someone who could not care less about Gods idea of marriage and proves it in his daily lack of love.


Ultimately I would use scripture to show her as much as God has shown me about marriage, and divorce then pray for her and hope she does what God would have her do and that she can be delivered from the kind of pain a life style like that would bring.

I think at the VERY least, separation is needed.

I know I wouldn't live with a woman who would do that to me....
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#27
This hypothetical situation was concocted in an effort to reveal the false, works based gospel the majority of modern day pastors teach.
worse than I thought

without the Holy Spirit, everything is human works anyway
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#28
Every time he asks how to be saved I simply say, “try to be more like Jesus.”
But that is not the Gospel. Only those who are ALREADY saved can try to be more like Jesus. So when someone approaches you with that question, you should open your Bible and show them from Scripture how to be saved and know it.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#29
Sounds like your co-worker is fearful of his inequalities but is unwilling to turn from them. Only the Father can draw people to His Son. Pray for him and show him you are the salt of the Earth.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#30
folks...read the thread

the op is posing a hypothetical situation in order to preach from his soapbox again

very good at doing that and saying people are going to clobber him or whatever

see post 21


Oops I didn’t post the entire page, just kidding, I felt it necessary to split it up. My apologies for the deception but If I had just presented my argument, most pastors are preaching works, I would have been stoned, called legalistic etc.
and there it is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

he's just kidding though in case we are not in a receptive mood for this type of harmonizing with the scriptures
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#31
ROMANS 3:8.
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come?
whose damnation is just.
it tells us over and over in scripture to 'resist evil', and have 'no part' of it', because it is from 'satan'...
if one practices 'deception' to make a 'point', he is most certainly serving the 'devil'...

MATT. 12:30.
He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathers not with Me scatters abroad.

lessons to be learned here in this thread by olds and news...
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#32
In one way mankind perishes because of lack of knowledge. And not that the knowledge is not there in the Bible . A different kind of knowledge coming from another kind wisdom other that that which are familiar with our own bias

But in the case of Christianity it becomes. How can I believe in someone not seen ? No one of their own volition according the Romans 3 can seek after God not seen. Seeing they have no understanding no source of faith by which they could.

He must do the first work. Jesus said in John 6 when the disciples asked, what work must they do to please God : Jesus reveled to them it is the work of God that works in us that we can believe Him the author of our new born again belief . without him we can do nothing as a good work

I would recommend from my experience talking about the faith of Christ "it" as "it" is written is the key that unlocks the mysteries and binds the chains on the bottomless pit. .(human reasoning)

Hold out the mystery of the faith of Christ, as it is written, the gospel. And pray it does its good work giving other ears to hear and a new heart to do the desires of Him not seen. . .
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#33
Think about that question "How do I get saved?"

In a normal situation you would call for help. And the question itself assumes that you cannot do it yourself.

You don't get saved from something that you can just do yourself. You get saved from something that you CAN'T do yourself.


So, first of all you have to know WHY you need salvation to begin with. You have to know the situation you are in. Then you call for help.

You can't call for help if you don't realize that you need help. If you think you can get out of your situation by your own then you will never call for help. You won't even think you need it. And you will probably tell everyone that they can get out of their situation by their own as well.


So would the answer to the question be "call for help" or would it be better to show, or have the person see, the need of help they really have?

Maybe both.