My Last Ditch Effort

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I'm getting closer to understanding what this is that is so difficult to reconcile.
You should see the things I write that I don't post. No, you shouldn't.
I'm in the process of reading and rereading your posts.
I'm shaking off some rigid attitudes; it's taking me a minute.
Y'all have written some good stuff.

In the meantime, please read this essay I wrote for a Health Care company's contest entry.
It won a runner-up prize among almost 600 contestants. $250.00 gift card. Not too shabby.

I was pleased with it. I think it captures the kind of relationship I had and now miss very much.

https://www.shieldhealthcare.com/co...al-caregiver-story-contest-runner-up-tracy-d/

May God bless you tenfold. I have no answers when it comes to suffering. All i can do is take it to God, even when i'm upset when i see why good people have to suffer. I don't know why a little child has to suffer from cancer and i'm not sure what is the lesson for or for who.
All i can do is take it to God when i'm having a bad day.
God bless you my friend and may He give you and your wife a sign.
 
To be fair, it seems like your opening monolog was much of what I have seen too from churches that are not firmly rooted in the word of God and "NOT Spiritual."

Gal 6:1 says: 6 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

The context of the one who is "Spiritual" means a mature elder in the faith. "Perfect" as Jesus was saying to be in Matthew 5:48 means complete. Perfect doesn't mean:

One has arrived where there is no more temptation or testing, or they are now out of the sanctification process. Everything you listed in the negative experience the Lord Himself spoke on you will find that in MATTHEW CHAPTER 23.

Sexual sin by pastors or ministers is far from removed from the church. FYI Paul addressed this in 1Corintians chapter 2:13-16, 3:18-23, 5:1-12.

When one doesn't deal with the sin in their own life that which is in the heart hidden from men but not God. That kind of sin is waiting to manifest in the person and will come out in Sexual, stealing, abusive sins.
The Satan will always send devils to cause an effective church many issues: division, deceptiveness, and delusions.


how does one fight this?

1 Constant and effective prayer
2. Adhering to and teaching the full word of GOD
3. Protect the children and the youth from predators and create an environment where this is taught and known we all are watching.
4. wise counsel and appropriate interaction at all times with the opposite sex.


Things that should never be done as a minster: (some of these things are from my own requirements that I believe to be praiseworthy you do not have to agree)

1. counsel opposite sex without an elder man with men or an elder woman with women
2. Allow men who have an addiction to pornography to continue minister and not receive godly counsel from a minimum of 1 -2 years
3. Not removal of anyone in ministry who has had an adulterous affair.
4. Not to removal anyone from ministry who has made it known they have an addiction of any kind
4. not to report any abuse to authorities of children, women or men when it has been made known to you.
5. cover up any abuse in the church


You a who are "spiritual" means mature in the faith, one of a good report and beyond reproach are to restore one weak in the faith.

How do you restore one in the faith?

They must be separated and removed from the office until they have repented and surrendered to GOD and set free from the sin.
this can be done in many ways and the use of many tools to help. Removal from the church building doesn't mean kicked out of the body of Christ. Depending on what has happened will determine what can be done.

sexual addiction: if they are a single man or women there are many programs that are very successful that are Christ centered. I had one young man who had been sexually abused by one of his own family members. This was a very tormented young man. Because he was 17, I had to seek legal advice to ensure all were protected. We provided counseling, support, and report to the family of what was said and how we could help heal the family. This is not a popcorn session where one allows those in the pews to know all. But there are to be a accountability for all involved.
Rubbing with oil and a crying at the alter two Sundays doesn't mean one is healed and set free.

It takes weeks and even years in some cases. But if the person doesn't what your help or is not submissive to correction that person will be asked to leave to ensure protection of the whole fellowship. Protecting the person doesn't mean covering up it, means helping one overcome.
There is no perfect church. IF you find one, when you get inside it will no longer be perfect.

However, there are wise, prudent and mature churches. I say pray and support the local fellowship.

IF you see and issue, ask the pastor how you can help them overcome. Instead of running all over saying how bad one's experience in church is "You who are "spiritual." What are you doing to restore one weaker in the faith as you have discernment of what the problem is what are you doing about it?

sound of the ball dropped in your court........




Ok, back to work.

God said that when I am tempted, He would provide a way of escape.
God didn't say that with a wink. Those words have provided the impetus for a lot of my hope in Christ.

I believe that alcoholics do not have to be alcoholics for life. I believe they can be set free from their addiction through the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe that freedom from the fear of falling back into drunkenness could be for the rest of their lives.

I used to love smoking pot. When I was backslidden, and I needed to feel like there was more than just me in the universe, I smoked as often as I could.
I would buy it by the pound and sell off some of it so I could smoke for free.
When I was high, I wasn't alone. When I wanted to return to God, I couldn't stop for an entire year while I tried. I finally had to act drastically, but I made outward decisions that changed my inward desires, and God honored my prayers and actions.

One of my present weaknesses is stress eating. I'm not obese, but if I had a friend, I could conquer my anxiety eating much faster than I am succeeding on my own, and I am succeeding. It's hard to give my wife (who is losing weight and shouldn't be) a snack without imbibing myself, but it's possible. Plus, exercising is very difficult since I can't leave my wife alone. I'm not a glutton, and I will do as God directs me with my diet.

I rarely see people, much less gossip. If I had a church standing behind me, we could have stood up to my brother together. I wouldn't have to go out into the world and try to find true Christians to support my hatred for his sins against my wife. They would have been attending my church.

As far as my materialism, in the past nine years, all I have bought for myself is a Scrabble game to play solitaire, a Rubik's Cube, and a couple of decks of cards. I have had to reduce our household possessions significantly because Donna would break things or put them in her mouth. We have a few stuffed animals and some books. Oh yeah, I bought a few books. They were written by someone I met online, and I wanted to show him some support.
Mostly, I have prints of photographs. Shoe boxes full. I have a few paintings my mother painted and a few decorations to give our home a warm feel. Other than that, just essentials.

Anyone can talk to me about any of my weaknesses, and I welcome it.
Just not wrath...... :ROFL:

I say this because:
@CS1 For some reason, brings up sexual sin. Just because I live alone with a woman who can't monitor my porn intake doesn't mean I indulge. I don't. If someone watches porn, it is adultery, and they are participating and supporting financially in the rape of the women they view. I don't watch it, and I don't masturbate, and I don't pull up erotic images in my mind. God can deliver men from that horrible prison. I would be willing to someday help young men do just that if the church would quit telling them that everybody does it and that it's acceptable and normal.

I'm reminded of a Charismatic pastor whom my brother and I went to for arbitration. I gave him our emails, and he told us our conflict was because of the sexual sins of our ancestors. He said we had demons. He couldn't be the one to deliver us, but he "knew a guy".
He was obsessed with the curse culture.

I'm about solutions, not raising our hands in surrender because we think God will be ok with a bride who smells putrid and is adorned in rags. Who has consented to be that bride? Is racism in the church inevitable? Are cliques? Who thinks this way besides the sinners that get invited into the "hospital" that they call the church? Whether it's the caregivers or visitors, that's how you get a staph infection.

"I played tennis in high school, @CS1", Underd0g said with a dry humor that most people don't get.
 
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Ok, back to work.

God said that when I am tempted, He would provide a way of escape.
God didn't say that with a wink. Those words have provided the impetus for a lot of my hope in Christ.

I believe that alcoholics do not have to be alcoholics for life. I believe they can be set free from their addiction through the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe that freedom from the fear of falling back into drunkenness could be for the rest of their lives.

I used to love smoking pot. When I was backslidden, and I needed to feel like there was more than just me in the universe, I smoked as often as I could.
I would buy it by the pound and sell off some of it so I could smoke for free.
When I was high, I wasn't alone. When I wanted to return to God, I couldn't stop for an entire year while I tried. I finally had to act drastically, but I made outward decisions that changed my inward desires, and God honored my prayers and actions.

One of my present weaknesses is stress eating. I'm not obese, but if I had a friend, I could conquer my anxiety eating much faster than I am succeeding on my own, and I am succeeding. It's hard to give my wife (who is losing weight and shouldn't be) a snack without imbibing myself, but it's possible. Plus, exercising is very difficult since I can't leave my wife alone. I'm not a glutton, and I will do as God directs me with my diet.

I rarely see people, much less gossip. If I had a church standing behind me, we could have stood up to my brother together. I wouldn't have to go out into the world and try to find true Christians to support my hatred for his sins against my wife. They would have been attending my church.

As far as my materialism, in the past nine years, all I have bought for myself is a Scrabble game to play solitaire, a Rubik's Cube, and a couple of decks of cards. I have had to reduce our household possessions significantly because Donna would break things or put them in her mouth. We have a few stuffed animals and some books. Oh yeah, I bought a few books. They were written by someone I met online, and I wanted to show him some support.
Mostly, I have prints of photographs. Shoe boxes full. I have a few paintings my mother painted and a few decorations to give our home a warm feel. Other than that, just essentials.

Anyone can talk to me about any of my weaknesses, and I welcome it.
Just not wrath...... :ROFL:

I say this because:
@CS1 For some reason, brings up sexual sin. Just because I live alone with a woman who can't monitor my porn intake doesn't mean I indulge. I don't. If someone watches porn, it is adultery, and they are participating and supporting financially in the rape of the women they view. I don't watch it, and I don't masturbate, and I don't pull up erotic images in my mind. God can deliver men from that horrible prison. I would be willing to someday help young men do just that if the church would quit telling them that everybody does it and that it's acceptable and normal.

I'm reminded of a Charismatic pastor whom my brother and I went to for arbitration. I gave him our emails, and he told us our conflict was because of the sexual sins of our ancestors. He said we had demons. He couldn't be the one to deliver us, but he "knew a guy".
He was obsessed with the curse culture.

I'm about solutions, not raising our hands in surrender because we think God will be ok with a bride who smells putrid and is adorned in rags. Who has consented to be that bride? Is racism in the church inevitable? Are cliques? Who thinks this way besides the sinners that get invited into the "hospital" that they call the church? Whether it's the caregivers or visitors, that's how you get a staph infection.

"I played tennis in high school, @CS1", Underd0g said with a dry humor that most people don't get.

I m not sure why you are including me in your response here because all of the things you listed about yourself are things People can see one do. YET The heart no one can know but GOD. I never said you were involved in sexual sin. I explained the issues as why many men of GOD fall that was listed in the opening thread post. which was responded to.
 
"The reason for this thread is that I am on a quest.
I have been looking for Christians who have had similar experiences to mine and have come to the same conclusions.
Hopefully, to find people who walk in the same spirit as me, and to be able to support and encourage each other."


"Matthew 5:48 and Ephesians 5:27 are just a few reasons I pursue perfection. I won't copy and paste scriptures for you. Those tactics are fruitless. I doubt many people go through those lists.
I know what people think about perfection, but that shouldn't preclude them from acting beyond reproach as God's Spirit prompts them."


"It occurred to me that maybe, since the church is basically corrupt and too ill to walk with God, "


"So, does anybody here belong to a healthy church? I have never met anyone who doesn't think poorly of and make excuses for their own churches."

You from what I have read have a preconceived outcome and bias. That is ok yet it doesn't seem you are open to possible reasons of the negative experiences you have had in "churches." I don't think you are seeking perfection I think you see yourself as perfect. Those are two different things.

"So, does anybody here belong to a healthy church? I have never met anyone who doesn't think poorly of and make excuses for their own churches.
The church where I got saved, the pastor patted me on the back, and that was the extent of my discipleship."


"The counsel I have received here on this site is that I am just looking for someone to blame for my personal problems, so I've already heard that. We will call that "Stereotype #1" to save time. Just post Stereotype #1 and don't make me read anything more. I've heard it all."

You prove my point. You don't want to see that possibly you have an issue and not wanting to receive any criticism because you have a position and predetermined outcome. I guess we all can just say Your right and let you believe you are.

I will call that Pride#1.
 
Is any church perfect or even capable of being made perfect? If you believe the Bible, the answer is an absolute "NO". Th Church is a collection of sinners who continue to sin daily but are trying to stop, and hopefully at least changing how they sin rather than continue making the same ones. But since the Church is composed of humans, and humans are sinners until we are perfected in God's kingdom, which is not yet fully realized on earth, we remain sinners who sin.

Now if you say to avoid the more obvious sins, I fully agree, but the root cause for our sinful actions is buried so deep within ourselves that only God can get it all out of us.
 
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I m not sure why you are including me in your response here because all of the things you listed about yourself are things People can see one do. YET The heart no one can know but GOD. I never said you were involved in sexual sin. I explained the issues as why many men of GOD fall that was listed in the opening thread post. which was responded to.

I apologize. That was a long post about sexual sin. I was confused as to why you posted it as well if it didn't have anything to do with the subject of the thread.
 
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Is any church perfect or even capable of being made perfect? If you believe the Bible, the answer is an absolute "NO". Th Church is a collection of sinners who continue to sin daily but are trying to stop, and hopefully at least changing how they sin rather than continue making the same ones. But since the Church is composed of humans, and humans are sinners until we are perfected in God's kingdom, which is not yet fully realized on earth, we remain sinners who sin.

Now if you say to avoid the more obvious sins, I fully agree, but the root cause for our sinful actions is buried so deep within ourselves that only God can get it all out of us.

Please be the first to give me an example of the sins that can't be conquered.
The sins that God winks at and the sins that don't matter.
Which sins do you tolerate, for example?
This would help me.

I have a list of around fifty scriptures that defy your interpretation of God's attitude toward sin.

I don't normally post long lists of scriptures, but I'm willing to go against my own policy.
 
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Please be the first to give me an example of the sins that can't be conquered.
I'm 100% with you on this. There is not a single sin that we cannot, as Christians, avoid committing. With that being said, the Bible is replete with Scriptures which inform us that our sanctification will be a lifelong process.

Much love!
 
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Well, I can see this is the theme of dissent against my understanding of God's ability to create in us a clean heart, so here goes...



Matthew 5:48
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

James 1:4
“Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.”

Colossians 1:28
“He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.”

1 Peter 1:15-16
“But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do.”
(The word 'all' is an absolute. Maybe not a suggestion or a goal, or an unreachable hope?)

1 John 4:18
“There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.”
(Perfect love)

Philippians 1:6
“Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
(Maybe this says we have to die first?)

Colossians 4:12
“Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.”
(I liken "all' and 'mature' as an attainable standard.)

Proverbs 2:7
“He holds success in store for the upright; he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless.”
(Blameless)

Matthew 19:21
“Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’”
(There will be sacrifices, especially concerning materialism.)
James 3:2
“We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.”

Hebrews 10:14
“For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”
(He sacrificed Himself to make us holy. Holy, not passable.)

2 Peter 1:5-7
“For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control…”
(It is a process. I get that.)

Psalm 37:37
“Consider the blameless, observe the upright; a future awaits those who seek peace.”
(Beyond reproach)

Genesis 6:9
"Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God".
(This was before Israel or prophecies about Christ. This was from just knowing God from creation and his own meditations.)

Job 1:1
“In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.”

Matthew 5:16
“In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.”
(I'd say this especially needs context. I suggest verses 13-20.)

Romans 8:29
“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son.”

John 17:23
“I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.”
(Complete)

Matthew 5:48
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

James 1:4
“Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.”

Colossians 1:28
“He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.”

1 Peter 1:15-16
“But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do.”
(The word 'all' is an absolute. Maybe not a suggestion or a goal, or an unreachable hope?)

1 John 4:18
“There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.”
(Perfect love)

Philippians 1:6
“Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
(Maybe this says we have to die first?)

Colossians 4:12
“Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.”
(I liken "all' and 'mature' as an attainable standard.)

Proverbs 2:7
“He holds success in store for the upright; he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless.”
(Blameless)

Matthew 19:21
“Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’”
(There will be sacrifices, especially concerning materialism.)
James 3:2
“We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.”

Hebrews 10:14
“For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”
(He sacrificed Himself to make us holy. Holy, not passable.)

2 Peter 1:5-7
“For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control…”
(It is a process. I get that.)

Psalm 37:37
“Consider the blameless, observe the upright; a future awaits those who seek peace.”
(Beyond reproach)

Genesis 6:9
"Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God".
(This was before Israel or prophecies about Christ. This was from just knowing God from creation and his own meditations.)

Job 1:1
“In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.”

Matthew 5:16
“In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.”
(I'd say this especially needs context. I suggest verses 13-20.)

Romans 8:29
“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son.”

John 17:23
“I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.”
(Complete)
 
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Continued....


Matthew 18:15-20
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. ...
(This is the scripture that, when ignored, dooms relationships. I would offer to meet with people's pastors or their spiritual accountability person and without fail turned down.)

Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready;
(Maybe we have to die first. I hope not.)

2 Peter 3:14
Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.

1 Peter 3:4
But let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.
(Imperishable implies completed and immutable.)

Ephesians 4:11-13
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
(These offices have standards.)

Romans 12:1-2
I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
(Keeping with the theme of perfection.)

Leviticus 5:15
“If anyone commits a breach of faith and sins unintentionally in any of the holy things of the Lord, he shall bring to the Lord as his compensation, a ram without blemish out of the flock, valued in silver shekels, according to the shekel of the sanctuary, for a guilt offering.
(It even deals with unintentional sin. I know God is just when dealing with cognitive and mental illnesses.)

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore, let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
(These are referring to actual accomplishments. Attainable achievements, yes, through the power of The Holy Spirit.)

John 14:12
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
(Pretty high expectation.)

Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
(Again, maybe that can be interpreted as we have to die before we are transformed. I'm not talking about our new heavenly bodies.)

James 1:17
“Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights.”
(This I may be taking liberties with in the sense that we give spiritual gifts and teachings to each other, and what makes them perfect is that they originate from God.)


1 Corinthians 10:13
God provides a way to escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:24
He who calls you is faithful...
 
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I'm 100% with you on this. There is not a single sin that we cannot, as Christians, avoid committing. With that being said, the Bible is replete with Scriptures which inform us that our sanctification will be a lifelong process.

Much love!


I try to tell people I know this sentiment. What I need to know is what the deal is when you are confronted with the truth and adamantly and hardheartedly refuse, yet still use this as an excuse.
What about that?
At what point are you unrepentant?
At what point will the church acknowledge that the overt sins and hurtful behaviors should be confronted?
I need the scriptures that promote averting your eyes from sin!
 
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Does anybody think that I am talking about immaturity,
sins of omission, sins of ignorance, or sins that nobody knew happened?
 
I try to tell people I know this sentiment. What I need to know is what the deal is when you are confronted with the truth and adamantly and hardheartedly refuse, yet still use this as an excuse.
What about that?
At what point are you unrepentant?
At what point will the church acknowledge that the overt sins and hurtful behaviors should be confronted?
I need the scriptures that promote averting your eyes from sin!

It's not scriptural. We are given the ability to overcome sin, but there's no will or interest to do so when total inability is taught as Christian doctrine. Church then basically becomes a religious club whose members tacitly agree to honor an unspoken gentleman's agreement to not confront (or whatever word is appropriate here) others' sins as long as they don't confront (ditto) yours.
 
I try to tell people I know this sentiment. What I need to know is what the deal is when you are confronted with the truth and adamantly and hardheartedly refuse, yet still use this as an excuse.
What about that?
At what point are you unrepentant?
At what point will the church acknowledge that the overt sins and hurtful behaviors should be confronted?
I need the scriptures that promote averting your eyes from sin!

Ephesians 4:17-32 KJV
17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19) Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27) Neither give place to the devil.
28) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29) Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Much love!
 
Please be the first to give me an example of the sins that can't be conquered.
The sins that God winks at and the sins that don't matter.
Which sins do you tolerate, for example?
This would help me.

I have a list of around fifty scriptures that defy your interpretation of God's attitude toward sin.

I don't normally post long lists of scriptures, but I'm willing to go against my own policy.

Where have I said that I tolerate sin? I merely have said that I recognize sin as something that must always be battled, and that I hope to avoid the most blatant forms. But read 1 John 1:8-9, how is this passage relevant to anyone if we can actually manage to stop sinning. Remember Paul's three tenses that are used when referring to our salvation, we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. When we are sully saved, when we have full salvation (remember the Greek word used for salvation is associated with healing) we will be fully healed from our sin nature, but we will not be fully saved on earth.
 
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I'm getting closer to understanding what this is that is so difficult to reconcile.
You should see the things I write that I don't post. No, you shouldn't.
I'm in the process of reading and rereading your posts.
I'm shaking off some rigid attitudes; it's taking me a minute.
Y'all have written some good stuff.

In the meantime, please read this essay I wrote for a Health Care company's contest entry.
It won a runner-up prize among almost 600 contestants. $250.00 gift card. Not too shabby.

I was pleased with it. I think it captures the kind of relationship I had and now miss very much.

https://www.shieldhealthcare.com/co...al-caregiver-story-contest-runner-up-tracy-d/

Hi @Underd0g , no worries we are here to help! I know it can take time to shake off mindsets but kudos to you for working on it 👏. I'm impressed that you're re-reading everything in the thread, I do the same when I start a thread trying to figure something out. Just be open and prayerful and I think your answers will come.

Side note, sweet essay! Donna is a beautiful lady, yall are so cute together ❤. I know it was an old picture, but still. It's clear you still adore her. I'm sorry you are both having to deal with this but it's still a sweet testimony. I look forward to meeting her in Heaven.

Easy to forget, our lives are just a loan;

And sweet shall be, that glorious day

When every tear is wiped away

And all makes sense,

these current torments

That plague our earthly way.

No asking "why?" In the sweet by and by

When we'll know as we are known.


Regarding sin, as we mature in Christ it becomes less of an issue, but I find myself being held to a higher standard as I mature.

So although I don't smoke, look at porn, get drunk, commit fornication, spend or eat excessively, anger quickly, etc...... The Lord is still perfecting me and I get corrected for other "smaller" things. A hint of pride, a tinge of envy.... not witnessing when I should.... it can be anything really. It just gets more and more precise as we grow, like sharpening a dull blade... at first you're taking off a lot of material but as time goes on it gets more precise, less material to take off but that's when the REAL sharpening happens. You are probably at that stage as well, so just embrace it! Jesus will complete the work, we just have to stay workable 🙂.

Best to you and lovely miss Donna!
 
Hi @Underd0g , no worries we are here to help! I know it can take time to shake off mindsets but kudos to you for working on it 👏. I'm impressed that you're re-reading everything in the thread, I do the same when I start a thread trying to figure something out. Just be open and prayerful and I think your answers will come.

Side note, sweet essay! Donna is a beautiful lady, yall are so cute together ❤. I know it was an old picture, but still. It's clear you still adore her. I'm sorry you are both having to deal with this but it's still a sweet testimony. I look forward to meeting her in Heaven.

Easy to forget, our lives are just a loan;

And sweet shall be, that glorious day

When every tear is wiped away

And all makes sense,

these current torments

That plague our earthly way.

No asking "why?" In the sweet by and by

When we'll know as we are known.


Regarding sin, as we mature in Christ it becomes less of an issue, but I find myself being held to a higher standard as I mature.

So although I don't smoke, look at porn, get drunk, commit fornication, spend or eat excessively, anger quickly, etc...... The Lord is still perfecting me and I get corrected for other "smaller" things. A hint of pride, a tinge of envy.... not witnessing when I should.... it can be anything really. It just gets more and more precise as we grow, like sharpening a dull blade... at first you're taking off a lot of material but as time goes on it gets more precise, less material to take off but that's when the REAL sharpening happens. You are probably at that stage as well, so just embrace it! Jesus will complete the work, we just have to stay workable 🙂.

Best to you and lovely miss Donna!

I am not sure that sin becomes less of an issue as we mature, it seems to me that while it is easier to avoid some actions that are sinful, I become more aware of many other things that I do or do not do that are just as sinful in God's eyes, even if fellow humans do not consider them sins.
 
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I am not sure that sin becomes less of an issue as we mature, it seems to me that while it is easier to avoid some actions that are sinful, I become more aware of many other things that I do or do not do that are just as sinful in God's eyes, even if fellow humans do not consider them sins.

That's actually what I was trying to say, I must not have phrased it well lol.

I guess you could say "blatant sins" become less of an issue as we mature.

Like, it's easy to think of losing your temper as "just something we all do sometimes", and although that's somewhat true, as a maturing Christian I see it as a much bigger deal than I did 20 years ago.

But yes, in my experience, anyone who claims to have "ceased from sin" is just using too narrow a definition of sin. If they consider themselves mature then it's time to raise their standards and get that iron razor-sharp.

Hope that made sense 🙂.
 
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