My Last Ditch Effort

[rewriter]

The reason for this thread is that I am on a quest.
I have been looking for Christians who have had similar experiences to mine and have come to the same conclusions. Hopefully, to find people who walk in the same spirit as me, and to be able to support and encourage each other.


I'm looking for people who have the creativity that comes from God.
Spoiler alert: You will most probably have years of journaling things that never get discussed in church or even in public. You will have plenty of anecdotes of your own. You will have solutions in mind as you read this.

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GO ALONG TO GET ALONG IN THE "CHURCH" AND HAVEN'T KNOWN WHAT TO DO!!

It sounds like you have been in some churches I know about, churches where I will not even darken the door because of reports about them that I received from people I trust. Some of these churches say all the "right" words, but there is no follow through, instead they speak the words with their mouths and deny the words with their actions.

I have found a few churches that both talk and walk the message, but they seem few and far between.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The reason for this thread is that I am on a quest.
I have been looking for Christians who have had similar experiences to mine and have come to the same conclusions. Hopefully, to find people who walk in the same spirit as me, and to be able to support and encourage each other.

I will give you these two scriptures and let you research, pray, and meditate for more on your own. I know the whole thing about "there is no such thing as a perfect church" and "the church is a hospital for sinners", and "if you find the perfect church, don't join it because then it won't be perfect". Please avoid all the cliches and stereotypes.
Matthew 5:48 and Ephesians 5:27 are just a few reasons I pursue perfection. I won't copy and paste scriptures for you. Those tactics are fruitless. I doubt many people go through those lists.
I know what people think about perfection, but that shouldn't preclude them from acting beyond reproach as God's Spirit prompts them.

It occurred to me that maybe, since the church is basically corrupt and too ill to walk with God, in my view, there is a faction of people who are still committed to waiting out this spirit of evil that has taken over the organized body of religion, hoping for revival. They obey the scriptures of meeting with "believers" until the true believers can figure out how to identify each other and become serious about the calling that Christ has placed on their lives.

I recently interacted with a "bishop" of the new Global Methodist Church. He left what he calls the evil of the United Methodist Church to begin this brand new denomination. The people starting this new "moral" church are the same people who allowed the old denomination to become corrupt financially and sexually.
He insisted that I should be a part of an organized church, preferably the GMC (Because it is of the John Wesley tradition. He loves the word "tribe".), and obey the chain of command and bureaucracy.

He never explained how denominations relate to 1 Corinthians 1:12.

In other words, they used to belong to the true church when the UMC used to be healthy, and let it become evil, and now they belong to the new, healthy church. I guess if that church is recognized as bad, they will start a new healthy church, and on and on.

It reminds me of when I was accused of being a church butterfly by people who, years later, left their churches.

So, does anybody here belong to a healthy church? I have never met anyone who doesn't think poorly of and make excuses for their own churches.
The church where I got saved, the pastor patted me on the back, and that was the extent of my discipleship.

The counsel I have received here on this site is that I am just looking for someone to blame for my personal problems, so I've already heard that. We will call that "Stereotype #1" to save time. Just post Stereotype #1 and don't make me read anything more. I've heard it all.

Here were my church choices over the past 50-some years:

1) A married junior pastor who seduced the married women he was supposed to be counseling.
2) A senior pastor who covered up a junior pastor seducing women he was supposed to be counseling and let him start a new church instead of calling the police.
3) That same junior pastor, starting a new congregation with my friends.
4) Me and my wife attending this church, recognizing something was amiss because the pastor was running the church on his personality and not the Spirit of God, and leaving this church.
5) My friends deriding us for leaving because we had no "evidence" of wrongdoing.
6) My "friends" discovering the truth about the pastor and ignoring what they said to and about us.
7) Us finding a church with another pastor being adulterous.
8) Us finding and leaving another church running on the personality of the pastor, which fell apart years later.
9) Us finding a church with a private school for our children. The school admittedly hired teachers out of a sense of ministry. One teacher had severe mental issues, but the school overall was incompetent and allowed cheating and misbehavior. We left that church. The school fell apart, and the principal of the school acknowledged we were right, only years later, and the pastor had fired her in the meantime for trying to clean it up.
10) Churches that wouldn't address grievances or follow Matthew 18. They didn't allow or deal with dissent.
11) Churches that allowed cliques, gossip, backbiting, destroying of relationships, etc...
12) Churches that allowed shacking up.
13) Embezzlement.
14) Extreme materialism with the pastor.
15) Definite racism.
16) A promise that their church wasn't a Word of Faith church, and then the next Sunday, being told by the pastor about a man who didn't want to tithe because of financial hardship, tithed anyway, and that next year, bought a recreational vehicle. The pastor then told the congregation that if they started tithing, he would return their money if things didn't go well for them.
17) Churches where members don't even try to understand the Bible.
18) Parents with children who had severe mental and physical retardation, being encouraged to put as much money as they could into large Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets to prove their faith and get their children healed.
19) "Christians" in my family telling us about gold dust falling from the ceiling and miracles occurring in groups like "Women Aglow". Prophets, prophetesses, prophecies, words of knowledge, tongues, and interpretations, phony gold tooth miracles, other false miracles, false teachings, declarations of demonic possession and deliverances, declarations of healings without evidence,
20) Witnessing ministries like Jehovah's Witnesses, Joel Osteen, Mormonism, The PTL Club, Charisma Magazine, The Christian Broadcast Network, Paul Crouch and the Trinity Broadcasting Network, more Charismatic preachers than you can shake a stick at, and on and on... The point being, they thrive while barely being challenged.
21) Most recently, a church that rejected my appeal for a very MINOR bit of help with my wife, who has dementia. No "Christian" in our ten years of dealing with dementia has ever asked what my wife is experiencing or made a serious attempt at finding out if they can help. They do, however, ask how she is. They are satisfied when I say, "She's in good spirits." I never say anything different, and no one has noticed.
The closest they come to telling me they would like to help is that they aren't good at texting. (In a text.)

At this site, Christian Chat, I only see vain arguments, quarrels, and members talking past each other in petty pursuits. I don't see resolution or communication, much less a body working together. If there is anyone here looking for solutions, I haven't found them. Just page after page of blather.
I guess this is my last-ditch effort, hoping that word can get around and maybe I can find one or two people who can relate. You would have to repent of being a member here.
Maybe I'll get banned. If I do, I'll have my answer.


The first person who says, "I'm sorry for the things you've gone through", will be called out for not reading this post seriously. I'm not looking for sympathy; I'm looking for Christians who agree. I won't fight. If you tell me you belong to a healthy church, I will require you to give me the email of your pastor, or I will call you out for being a liar and a hypocrite. We can figure out a way to privately exchange emails.

"I'm sorry for what you've gone through" can be "Sterotype #2."

"I'm praying for you" is "Stereotype #3".
I don't need to know you are praying for me. Pray in private. God knows when you ask something of Him and what you pray for daily. If you use this stereotype, just know that I am picturing you with your thumbs under your armpits, flapping your elbows as everyone online reads that you "care".

I'm looking for people who have the creativity that comes from God.
Spoiler alert: You will most probably have years of journaling things that never get discussed in church or even in public. You will have plenty of anecdotes of your own. You will have solutions in mind as you read this.

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GO ALONG TO GET ALONG IN THE "CHURCH" AND HAVEN'T KNOWN WHAT TO DO!!

I'm not sure I can respond to the whole of your post. But I do relate to your wife with dementia. My father was recently diagnosed. He is in the hospital now for related issues. We attend a small country church but we were in ministry and many people know my father. Many offers for prayer, two dear friends who have actually helped. So, at least there, I can agree with and empathize with you.

 

[Gideon300]

The reason for this thread is that I am on a quest.
It's been said that the church is a hospital for the spiritually sick. I agree, but often what calls itself church offers only palliative care. The gospel of the Kingdom is the gospel of deliverance. Most preach as if it the gospel of staying out of trouble and hanging on until you die or Jesus returns.

A big part of the problem is the "open door" policy of the church generally. Pastors seem to measure success by numbers of attenders rather than the maturity of those who attend. Church growth should be in grace and the knowledge of the truth. I was a member of a church where an imposter was welcomed. He buttered up the pastor, puffed up the pastor's ego and eventually destroyed the church. The Lord warned me and I had moved on by that time. I had warned the pastor and that did not go over well.

The place I moved to was little better. There were false manifestations of the gift of prophecy and tongues. After my previous experience, I was determined to stick it out. I wanted to be an elder eventually. So I ignored the problems. I agreed to be youth leader and that was a great experience. I encouraged the group of a dozen or so to participate. One week I would preach, the next one of the group.

At the same time, I was working full time and I had other responsibilities. I took on way too much and ended up burning out. I had a melt down and quit that church also.

God has a way of getting you to do His will. I was hounded by a friend who wanted me to meet the leader of a home based fellowship. That was not in my idea of church. I knew about cell groups. As far as I was concerned, they were called cell groups because they put you in prison. After 3 months, I finally gave in and met the man who was to be my mentor for the next 30 years.

The group was small, about 30 to start and dwindled to 15 or so. It was too hot for quite a few. The leader had a number of gifts including discernment. He told one new guy that he had to cut out his adultery if he wanted to go on with God. He did not come again. Some people love their sin too much to change.

The group no longer exists except as a name. However, what I learned in that time remains. I hope to begin again, with a small and close knit fellowship of believers.

One of the glaring problems of church is how few are actually born again. Averages can be misleading, but surveys say that only around 4% of church attenders are born again. My long experience confirms that. So when we are talking about the church and its problems, we are often talking about the problems of the make believers. The true church is that recognised by God, not man. And when the leader is not born again, well you can imagine how that ends up.

The apparent exodus from organised religion does not bother me. Jesus warned us that there would be a great falling away. Most of those who leave were not part of the body of Christ in the first place. Many others are leaving organised "Christianism", as I call it, and not leaving Jesus.

It's easy to look at what is going on and be critical. God's judgement begins with the house of God. We do need to be careful that we judge in sense of discerning, like a doctor diagnosing an illness or a coach pointing out flaws in techniques. We always need to remember that but for the grace of God, there go we.

 

[Kroogz]

The reason for this thread is that I am on a quest.
I have been looking for Christians who have had similar experiences to mine and have come to the same conclusions. Hopefully, to find people who walk in the same spirit as me, and to be able to support and encourage each other.

I will give you these two scriptures and let you research, pray, and meditate for more on your own. I know the whole thing about "there is no such thing as a perfect church" and "the church is a hospital for sinners", and "if you find the perfect church, don't join it because then it won't be perfect". Please avoid all the cliches and stereotypes.
Matthew 5:48 and Ephesians 5:27 are just a few reasons I pursue perfection. I won't copy and paste scriptures for you. Those tactics are fruitless. I doubt many people go through those lists.
I know what people think about perfection, but that shouldn't preclude them from acting beyond reproach as God's Spirit prompts them.

It occurred to me that maybe, since the church is basically corrupt and too ill to walk with God, in my view, there is a faction of people who are still committed to waiting out this spirit of evil that has taken over the organized body of religion, hoping for revival. They obey the scriptures of meeting with "believers" until the true believers can figure out how to identify each other and become serious about the calling that Christ has placed on their lives.

I recently interacted with a "bishop" of the new Global Methodist Church. He left what he calls the evil of the United Methodist Church to begin this brand new denomination. The people starting this new "moral" church are the same people who allowed the old denomination to become corrupt financially and sexually.
He insisted that I should be a part of an organized church, preferably the GMC (Because it is of the John Wesley tradition. He loves the word "tribe".), and obey the chain of command and bureaucracy.

He never explained how denominations relate to 1 Corinthians 1:12.

In other words, they used to belong to the true church when the UMC used to be healthy, and let it become evil, and now they belong to the new, healthy church. I guess if that church is recognized as bad, they will start a new healthy church, and on and on.

It reminds me of when I was accused of being a church butterfly by people who, years later, left their churches.

So, does anybody here belong to a healthy church? I have never met anyone who doesn't think poorly of and make excuses for their own churches.
The church where I got saved, the pastor patted me on the back, and that was the extent of my discipleship.

The counsel I have received here on this site is that I am just looking for someone to blame for my personal problems, so I've already heard that. We will call that "Stereotype #1" to save time. Just post Stereotype #1 and don't make me read anything more. I've heard it all.

Here were my church choices over the past 50-some years:

1) A married junior pastor who seduced the married women he was supposed to be counseling.
2) A senior pastor who covered up a junior pastor seducing women he was supposed to be counseling and let him start a new church instead of calling the police.
3) That same junior pastor, starting a new congregation with my friends.
4) Me and my wife attending this church, recognizing something was amiss because the pastor was running the church on his personality and not the Spirit of God, and leaving this church.
5) My friends deriding us for leaving because we had no "evidence" of wrongdoing.
6) My "friends" discovering the truth about the pastor and ignoring what they said to and about us.
7) Us finding a church with another pastor being adulterous.
8) Us finding and leaving another church running on the personality of the pastor, which fell apart years later.
9) Us finding a church with a private school for our children. The school admittedly hired teachers out of a sense of ministry. One teacher had severe mental issues, but the school overall was incompetent and allowed cheating and misbehavior. We left that church. The school fell apart, and the principal of the school acknowledged we were right, only years later, and the pastor had fired her in the meantime for trying to clean it up.
10) Churches that wouldn't address grievances or follow Matthew 18. They didn't allow or deal with dissent.
11) Churches that allowed cliques, gossip, backbiting, destroying of relationships, etc...
12) Churches that allowed shacking up.
13) Embezzlement.
14) Extreme materialism with the pastor.
15) Definite racism.
16) A promise that their church wasn't a Word of Faith church, and then the next Sunday, being told by the pastor about a man who didn't want to tithe because of financial hardship, tithed anyway, and that next year, bought a recreational vehicle. The pastor then told the congregation that if they started tithing, he would return their money if things didn't go well for them.
17) Churches where members don't even try to understand the Bible.
18) Parents with children who had severe mental and physical retardation, being encouraged to put as much money as they could into large Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets to prove their faith and get their children healed.
19) "Christians" in my family telling us about gold dust falling from the ceiling and miracles occurring in groups like "Women Aglow". Prophets, prophetesses, prophecies, words of knowledge, tongues, and interpretations, phony gold tooth miracles, other false miracles, false teachings, declarations of demonic possession and deliverances, declarations of healings without evidence,
20) Witnessing ministries like Jehovah's Witnesses, Joel Osteen, Mormonism, The PTL Club, Charisma Magazine, The Christian Broadcast Network, Paul Crouch and the Trinity Broadcasting Network, more Charismatic preachers than you can shake a stick at, and on and on... The point being, they thrive while barely being challenged.
21) Most recently, a church that rejected my appeal for a very MINOR bit of help with my wife, who has dementia. No "Christian" in our ten years of dealing with dementia has ever asked what my wife is experiencing or made a serious attempt at finding out if they can help. They do, however, ask how she is. They are satisfied when I say, "She's in good spirits." I never say anything different, and no one has noticed.
The closest they come to telling me they would like to help is that they aren't good at texting. (In a text.)

At this site, Christian Chat, I only see vain arguments, quarrels, and members talking past each other in petty pursuits. I don't see resolution or communication, much less a body working together. If there is anyone here looking for solutions, I haven't found them. Just page after page of blather.
I guess this is my last-ditch effort, hoping that word can get around and maybe I can find one or two people who can relate. You would have to repent of being a member here.
Maybe I'll get banned. If I do, I'll have my answer.


The first person who says, "I'm sorry for the things you've gone through", will be called out for not reading this post seriously. I'm not looking for sympathy; I'm looking for Christians who agree. I won't fight. If you tell me you belong to a healthy church, I will require you to give me the email of your pastor, or I will call you out for being a liar and a hypocrite. We can figure out a way to privately exchange emails.

"I'm sorry for what you've gone through" can be "Sterotype #2."

"I'm praying for you" is "Stereotype #3".
I don't need to know you are praying for me. Pray in private. God knows when you ask something of Him and what you pray for daily. If you use this stereotype, just know that I am picturing you with your thumbs under your armpits, flapping your elbows as everyone online reads that you "care".

I'm looking for people who have the creativity that comes from God.
Spoiler alert: You will most probably have years of journaling things that never get discussed in church or even in public. You will have plenty of anecdotes of your own. You will have solutions in mind as you read this.

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GO ALONG TO GET ALONG IN THE "CHURCH" AND HAVEN'T KNOWN WHAT TO DO!!

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html

https://gbible.org/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/broadcasters/cliffside/


Gird up your loins and listen to doctrine.

 

[Underd0g]

It sounds like you have been in some churches I know about, churches where I will not even darken the door because of reports about them that I received from people I trust. Some of these churches say all the "right" words, but there is no follow through, instead they speak the words with their mouths and deny the words with their actions.

I have found a few churches that both talk and walk the message, but they seem few and far between.

@Gideon300

I agree, and that is part of my dilemma. This is the common experience. So common that nobody is shocked by it anymore.
So common that it is worse to buck the trend than fit in with the pack.

I got to the point where I was ashamed to invite people to church. I saw that they and their children would be desensitized to sin.
My wife, who promoted everything she was interested in to everyone she loved, lost heart.

I guess part of my questions are being answered. Where do people draw their lines? What sin does it take to finally offend them enough to make a stand? How valuable is the Church to them?

It has been valuable enough to me to get ostracized from fellowships because I wouldn't back down.
I took a pastor to court for deceptive trade practices when my son couldn't advance to his proper public school grade from the church school I mentioned. He got credit for answering a test question... It takes two nouns to make a verb.
I have two local pastors who demanded I not email them. They belonged to a denomination, so they aren't there anymore anyway.
Bureaucracy at work.

No one stood with us or acknowledged our observations until they were unjustly treated.
I haven't met anyone yet who doesn't have the stories. They relent or move on.

And @rewriter, how did you find multiple healthy churches? Do you move a lot? What denominations were they?

 

[Underd0g]

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html

https://gbible.org/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/broadcasters/cliffside/


Gird up your loins and listen to doctrine.

Thank you, but I have a lot of resources.

 

[Underd0g]

I'm not sure I can respond to the whole of your post. But I do relate to your wife with dementia. My father was recently diagnosed. He is in the hospital now for related issues. We attend a small country church but we were in ministry and many people know my father. Many offers for prayer, two dear friends who have actually helped. So, at least there, I can agree with and empathize with you.

All of a sudden, people come out of the woodwork when you have a traumatic issue occur in your life.
It makes me feel like I'm sure I neglected those going through terrible situations.
I remember when my son got run over by an SUV. (He survived and went on to serve in the Coast Guard.)
I wondered why the world didn't stop and acknowledge my pain and his misfortune.
That is another point I would like to see the Church address: compassion.
So that people don't have to go through something to understand it.
There are so many insights parents of children with Cerebral Palsy could contribute.
Those parents are some of the most beautiful people.

 

[Underd0g]

This @Underd0g guy. I like him.

I've been a pilgrim in a strange land for over 20 years now. Our family left the Sunday-boxes when our daughters were young. Heck, I no longer use the label "Christian" to describe my faith because it was originally used as a Roman pejorative for believers in Christ. So, I'm weird like that.

I took the admonition to be the Spiritual Leader of our home seriously - displaying the heart of Our Father in Heaven to my wife and daughters in all matters. By this, God became alive to our kiddos through me and their mother. They could even tell us they thought we were wrong by appeal and you know what, sometimes I had to repent of my decisions or choices. Certainly God is NEVER wrong but I am often (and hopefully less so as I mature in Christ). Today, my wife and daughters go boldly into the throne room of God in their prayers and petitions. I know I had something to do with that.

I also gave up divisive politics the year Ross Perot ran for president. I saw, by my own political affiliation, that I could easily disregard about half of the population. Well, that was nonsense if God was sending me to people. So I had a Jonah-experience where God arrested my political proclivities.

Now, I am an elder in our area with spiritual children in 4 different states. I talk to all whom I watch over frequently. I travel to spend time with them and they do the same. Recently my wife and I purchased a larger house to accommodate more visitors. Our time with the spiritual children is organic- like a relationship. And isn't that what we're taught is Sunday School: that it's about a relationship with Christ? And yet, what is practiced from the pulpit is that a man is hired to hear Christ for you, on a particular day, at a particular time, with a message generalized to the greatest common denominator among the crowd, and no one can ask questions.

Nah, not the Family of God. He knows us personally and addresses us by name. Like how I know my children in the Lord and know them by name.

Any way, brother, your angst is real and there is a real reason for it. I know many people in the Lord who have similar concerns.

I appreciate your candor. I hope this encourages you.

Aaron56

P.S. I see you appreciate the input of @Eli1 and @2ndTimeIsTheCharm . I appreciate them too. And also the others who have chimed in. There are many things we agree on.

Ross Perot, that is an interesting flashback to have etched in your mind as a course-changing event.
Your post just makes me lament that I wasn't prepared when my sons were young.
When my younger son was a child and didn't want to sit through church, we would go to McDonald's while my wife and older son would sit through the service.

They say wisdom comes with age, but I'm no example of that.

I'm also trying to prepare my mind for if I am ever again able to be mobile and ever have to decide if I would move, and where. It's morbid for me to consider. I do want to outlive Donna, if only so that no one else is burdened to do what I love doing.

I loved your history! So, maybe you could adopt us?

.

 

[Underd0g]

What do you mean this is your last-ditch effort? Does this mean youll leave if this last-ditch effort fails?

I really hope not. You've been voicing what I can't express! Your first post in this thread is everything I wanted to say.


🕊

Well, being my friend can be quite tedious. I would pummel you with questions. I am very curious about people.
I'd want to know about your taste in art for sure.

It's good that you love and respect your parents. It's a lost craft.
When I was growing up, children would buy houses near where their parents lived, and the mutual support was daily.
Traveling to the north side of town was like going on vacation.
Then kids started moving thousands of miles away to pursue careers.
I don't know that it made us better off.

 

[Gideon300]

@Gideon300

I agree, and that is part of my dilemma. This is the common experience. So common that nobody is shocked by it anymore.
So common that it is worse to buck the trend than fit in with the pack.

I got to the point where I was ashamed to invite people to church. I saw that they and their children would be desensitized to sin.
My wife, who promoted everything she was interested in to everyone she loved, lost heart.

I guess part of my questions are being answered. Where do people draw their lines? What sin does it take to finally offend them enough to make a stand? How valuable is the Church to them?

It has been valuable enough to me to get ostracized from fellowships because I wouldn't back down.
I took a pastor to court for deceptive trade practices when my son couldn't advance to his proper public school grade from the church school I mentioned. He got credit for answering a test question... It takes two nouns to make a verb.
I have two local pastors who demanded I not email them. They belonged to a denomination, so they aren't there anymore anyway.
Bureaucracy at work.

No one stood with us or acknowledged our observations until they were unjustly treated.
I haven't met anyone yet who doesn't have the stories. They relent or move on.

And @rewriter, how did you find multiple healthy churches? Do you move a lot? What denominations were they?

I'm 74, nearly 75 and retired. I hope eventually to start a work. My working title is "Church for the Unchurched". We've done some street witnessing. I was surprised how often people said that they used to go church but they got disillusioned. I have no idea how to go about it. If it's of God, it will come to pass. If it is not of God, I don't want it!

 

[Underd0g]

I'm 74, nearly 75 and retired. I hope eventually to start a work. My working title is "Church for the Unchurched". We've done some street witnessing. I was surprised how often people said that they used to go church but they got disillusioned. I have no idea how to go about it. If it's of God, it will come to pass. If it is not of God, I don't want it!

Scott Adams, the author of the comic Dilbert, died recently. I hear he gave his life to Christ before he died. As an agnostic, he wrote a book about reframing your brain, having to do with expectations of the future. If you don't get the job, thank your lucky stars kind of thing.
Insightful for an agnostic.

 

[Underd0g]

Why are there so many threads on subjects that can never be resolved?
Post trib/pre trib, old earth/new earth, faith works/dead works, etc...
Where are the threads on solutions and Christians working together?

Before you say, start your own thread, let me tell you a story:
I was a member of a forum that discussed one of my passions, photography. I used to do real slide shows back in the 80's and 90's for high school sports banquets and elementary school and such. I don't know if any of you have seen some of my pictures that I tweaked and added text to in another thread, but taking pictures was addictive for me. I didn't understand that the thread was only for copying and pasting established works of art; my pictures were rejected, so I kinda felt burned on that.

Well, this photography forum started allowing sexually provocative photos on its main area instead of a hidden part of the site. One guy stood up and was chastised for being a homophobe. He didn't even mention the gay themes; they just assumed. I was the only one who stood up for him. He left the site.

Now, I had the option of sharing a part of my life with people I had lost all respect for or leaving. I left. I could no longer enjoy myself. It's like trying to watch Robert DeNiro after seeing him in the context of his political rants. You can't suspend your disbelief anymore; it takes you out of the viewing experience.

I want to know what other people care about, along with their view of scripture, to bring balance.

Since I know how some of you think, I would take that into account in my reading of the comments and your own contributions to whatever thread I started.

Can you see that?

 

[Underd0g]

This is what you do. I gave you several hours of my time to answer your complaints. In detail, I responded to what you wrote. I asked you questions and tried to provide you help and understanding.

What did you do? You never actually responded to what I wrote. You posted some inconsequential response, said I was correct and then you told me not to get a big head about it. You did not think enough of my personal investment to bother to respond in any way that would indicate you thought there might be improvement in yourself and maybe work on that attitude you have.

WHAT ON EARTH?? I was disappointed in how you responded having spent as much time as I did on you as you requested help and I thought you were sincere. Now we have this post from you in which you blame everyone for how things are...which is basically what you did in the post I responded to.

Every single person on this planet has disappointments and often in other people but we, as Christians, come to understand that this is a fallen world and no one is unscathed and often enough by our own actions.

Are you just one big pity party of 'poor me no one loves me'?



Who do you think you are? The entire church is corrupt and you are too good for it, is what I have sadly come to see in your behavior andwhat you say to yourself.

If nothing, I am truthful and actually really do want to help and have helped people but I don't think you really want help from me or anyone. If you actually got yourself straightened out, you might have to apologize to people that you have insulted and condemmed. I think you isolate yourself because too many pastors and other Christians have pointed out to you, that YOU are the actual problem.

I have invoked @pinebeach once again, so I figure I should walk the talk.
What I thought was your taking time to understand me was washed out by what I consider cutting and insensitive.
The shrugs comment was icing on the cake to show it was mockery.

Here is your last post to me on that thread. I had no reason to think you would change your mind. It appeared to me that you thought you could see my heart, which is solely in the purview of God.

If you disagree, there is the perfect solution. Matthew 18.
Find one or two witnesses who agree that I have sinned against you and bring your case.
Start a thread and invite me to it since I don't care to clutter this one.

Here is the screenshot.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

View attachment 285624


Why are there so many threads on subjects that can never be resolved?
Post trib/pre trib, old earth/new earth, faith works/dead works, etc...
Where are the threads on solutions and Christians working together?

Before you say, start your own thread, let me tell you a story:
I was a member of a forum that discussed one of my passions, photography. I used to do real slide shows back in the 80's and 90's for high school sports banquets and elementary school and such. I don't know if any of you have seen some of my pictures that I tweaked and added text to in another thread, but taking pictures was addictive for me. I didn't understand that the thread was only for copying and pasting established works of art; my pictures were rejected, so I kinda felt burned on that.

Well, this photography forum started allowing sexually provocative photos on its main area instead of a hidden part of the site. One guy stood up and was chastised for being a homophobe. He didn't even mention the gay themes; they just assumed. I was the only one who stood up for him. He left the site.

Now, I had the option of sharing a part of my life with people I had lost all respect for or leaving. I left. I could no longer enjoy myself. It's like trying to watch Robert DeNiro after seeing him in the context of his political rants. You can't suspend your disbelief anymore; it takes you out of the viewing experience.

I want to know what other people care about, along with their view of scripture, to bring balance.

Since I know how some of you think, I would take that into account in my reading of the comments and your own contributions to whatever thread I started.

Can you see that?

I see what you’re saying. But this is a Bible discussion forum aka theology/interpretation debating/arguing forum. You’ll notice that there are different groups of people between the different forums. The miscellaneous, family, music, poetry, etc forums all have different people that frequent them. You seem to be seeking connection and fellowship more. So yes my suggestion is to start your own thread but maybe try in one of the other sections because you will find a different group of people that aren’t arguing over impossible to know issues.

 

[homwardbound]

Definitely a shorter message, but I couldn't understand it.
The grammar and punctuation mistakes make me think you copied and pasted your previous message to me.

Okay, Thank you, God loves us all, is the point.

 

[Underd0g]

I see what you’re saying. But this is a Bible discussion forum aka theology/interpretation debating/arguing forum. You’ll notice that there are different groups of people between the different forums. The miscellaneous, family, music, poetry, etc forums all have different people that frequent them. You seem to be seeking connection and fellowship more. So yes my suggestion is to start your own thread but maybe try in one of the other sections because you will find a different group of people that aren’t arguing over impossible to know issues.

If you read post #52, you'll see that the relationships bleed into each other.

 

[Underd0g]

@Eli1 , Had you read the whole thread in reference when you liked post #11?

Once again:

 

[Underd0g]

Okay, Thank you, God loves us all, is the point.

I agree with this.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If you read post #52, you'll see that the relationships bleed into each other.

Yea I read that post and replied to it. So in a few words what exactly are you looking for on Christian Chat? Are you looking to discuss theology and scripture or are you simply looking to discuss other life issues and build relationships?

 

[Eli1]

@Eli1 , Had you read the whole thread in reference when you liked post #11?

Once again:

View attachment 285628

Good morning friend. Do you have a link for that topic?
It's difficult trying to mediate when i don't know the post history between you two but if i can say a few words about you and pinebeach is that i know her enough to know that she means well, despite our disagreements.
And so far i know you enough that you are more sensistive or empathic due to your situation. As you saw from the post that @ThereRoseaLamb gave you, she is also more empathetic in post 42.
What does empathy give you? I would say it gives you an advantage because you get closer to God and you know people right away. And it also should give you forgiveness.

There are many good people here as i said, but i don't agree with most of them. In fact there is one member who i completely disagree with 99% of what he says, how he says it and when he says it. Yet, i knew he might have had his own issues (even before he said it himself) and i forgave all the disagreements.
If i were to debate people on small things like that, what would that give me? Nothing i would say. It would be a waste of time. So, i enjoy the good and forget the bad. People are like magnets on a spiritual level. Sometimes they attract sometimes they repel. Don't fight God's design. Let it be. Things have to run their course.

There are also members here who are plain malicious. Your empathy should recognize this also. Those are the ones who i do respond from time to time so i can give them a taste of their own medicine but ultimately they might have had issues of their own too and a lot of them are linked to childhood. Even the malicious ones are children of God who want to be loved by God with whatever happened to them in their lives.

So be strong, put God first, love your wife and talk to God on a daily basis while doing simple tasks. It can turn them into a pleasure. Almost like being in The Garden with Him.
God bless you my friend.