Must You Know Torah to Know God?

[Blik]

There isn't a quick and easy answer to this question but I'd say we know Jesus is Messiah through the study of prophecy and the quickening of The Holy Spirit

My meditation and prayers that led to this post didn't have to do with the OT leading to our knowledge of Jesus as Messiah, as most of these posts are addressing but on knowing the character and ways of our triune God.

It seemed to me that my love and awe of the Lord included knowing the ways of our creator God as an important element. For example the time I made a special study of grace, wondering if Christ brought in grace to our world. I found that our Father God's first reaction of Adam and Eve's fall was to give us grace. That lead to a study of the sacrificial system, comparing it to the finished work of Christ. It opened up a much better understanding of Christ for me.

It seems to me most important to know all the character of our God, including the OT to really know Christ. Christ was from the beginning and is God.

 

[breno785au]

Man reads the Law of God:
My God! (literally) we are a messed up people, how can we do all of this?

God:
*points to Jesus* Believe (lean upon) and follow Him

Man:
Okay

....

Simples!

 

[Blik]

Man reads the Law of God:
My God! (literally) we are a messed up people, how can we do all of this?
God:
*points to Jesus* Believe (lean upon) and follow Him
Man:
Okay
....
Simples!

This suggests that it is all very simple, the answer is simply Christ and that is true but doesn't touch even on the subject of the post. I feel that unless we know and understand God the Father as He is shown in the OT, we really don't know about or understand all about Christ. I expected posts that raised all cain at that idea, not these mild ones telling of Christ.

Where are the Christians plunging deep into our world as God has created it?

 

[JaumeJ]

Those who first came to Jesus, Yeshua, only had the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets by which to know Jesus fully. The penned New Testament came long after the first assemblies of God, Yahweh.

Having expressed this, no man will learn anything of Jesus, Yeshua by written words alone, for only the Holy Spirit reveals truth. He leads us to all truth. Pray, believe and read in the presence of the Holy Spirit, amen, in Yeshua, amen.

 

[breno785au]

This suggests that it is all very simple, the answer is simply Christ and that is true but doesn't touch even on the subject of the post. I feel that unless we know and understand God the Father as He is shown in the OT, we really don't know about or understand all about Christ. I expected posts that raised all cain at that idea, not these mild ones telling of Christ.

Where are the Christians plunging deep into our world as God has created it?

I don't get some of these ideas. It's the same God, there is no God of the OT/NT. Reading the scriptures is one thing, but you'll see that what was recorded of God was experiential and revealed.
It's not enough to say, I've read about God, now I know Him, just as much as it is to read a biography about a person and say I know them now.
Intimacy with Him and experiencing His provision, His victory, His grace, His mercy, His discipline goes far beyond merely reading about it... But I'm pretty sure, and hoping we already all know this

 

[Guojing]

Why is Jesus the Messiah? Why did Jesus die on the cross? Why was He not hung or beheaded? What did the blood and cross fulfill? Why did He heal people of leprosy? Why did He quote Isaiah? Why was He born of Mary and not someone from another Tribe? Why did He not defend Himself when He was on trial? Why did He raise the dead? The Paul raised the dead..... what was the difference? Why did He die at Passover? What is the Messiah supposed to do?..... what does all of this mean and a million more questions? .... What other Jew brought the world to God? Only if you know Torah you know why Jesus is Messiah....

Jesus 1st coming was to the circumcision so yes, knowing the Torah, as the Jews did, will point them to the Messiah.

But for Gentiles, the ascended Christ raised Paul to reach out to us.

 

[p_rehbein]

Not sure what the OP is aiming at, however, I do not believe we have to know the Tora to know God, or to know Jesus Christ and to receive salvation. IF the OP is using Tora as a substitute for the Holy Bible (my beloved KJ) then, knowing it, studying it is important for all believers, but that isn't necessary for salvation, or for even realizing that THERE IS A GOD.

There is a Scripture that speaks of God making Himself known to mankind, not sure of it right now, but I have read it.

 

[Blik]

I don't get some of these ideas. It's the same God, there is no God of the OT/NT. Reading the scriptures is one thing, but you'll see that what was recorded of God was experiential and revealed.
It's not enough to say, I've read about God, now I know Him, just as much as it is to read a biography about a person and say I know them now.
Intimacy with Him and experiencing His provision, His victory, His grace, His mercy, His discipline goes far beyond merely reading about it... But I'm pretty sure, and hoping we already all know this

But don't you think that, just as it is with getting to know anyone, visiting with them and learning about them is the way we do it? Our visits with the Lord is through prayer, listening, and reading His word. Seems to me God speaks before His cruicifixion and afterwards first as God the Father and then as God the Son.

 

[Blik]

Jesus 1st coming was to the circumcision so yes, knowing the Torah, as the Jews did, will point them to the Messiah.

But for Gentiles, the ascended Christ raised Paul to reach out to us.

The only thing I know of circumcision having to do with knowing and having a relationship with God is that God asked all who belonged to Him to mark their bodies in a way that proclaimed them as His, and after Christ this mark was done spiritually without the need of a physical mark.

 

[Guojing]

The only thing I know of circumcision having to do with knowing and having a relationship with God is that God asked all who belonged to Him to mark their bodies in a way that proclaimed them as His, and after Christ this mark was done spiritually without the need of a physical mark.

Not after Paul was raised, was it revealed to him that circumcision was no longer necessary.

 

[jacob_g]

There isn't a quick and easy answer to this question but I'd say we know Jesus is Messiah through the study of prophecy and the quickening of The Holy Spirit

The way to know is to know the old testament

 

[Michael29]

You ask a wonderful question and I’ll give you the answer.

Do you believe that God created your 2 eye, 2 hands, your ability to dream, why pain exists, your ability to procreate, the beauty of women, the strength of men, diseases, the multiple types of trees, carnivores and herbivores etc? If so, don’t you wonder why?

Can you build a relationship with your wife by simply recalling the day of your wedding? Why do deep intellectual conversations seem so meaningful?

If you answers these two questions the way I would hope, then it is easy to see why the Jews (not for salvation purposes only, because that’s not the only aspect to life but it is one of many) study the Torah all day and know every aspect of God, Our Father in Heaven. How can one know if he sins if he doesn’t know the instruction manual? Sure we need salivation but why? What did we do wrong first? Why have a “whole” bible when I could probably do with a couple of verses? So just as a wife craves her husbands attention, so to God calls us to “live not on bread alone but on every Word of the Lord”, so that you can Know God!

Examples: “Patience”: God said Adam had to die but why did he wait 930 years to do it? Because although God said Adam had to die, He never said “when”; thus his years on earth were to rectify his sin.

“Kindness”: It’s easy to give when we have much and are healthy, but what about if you are 99 years old, you just have yourself a circumcision, it’s 30+ degrees out in an abandoned desert... how willing are you to serve others? Abraham shows us the definition of kindness.

“Selflessness”: When we do a good deed for one another we can always have the intention to gain something from it (which is normal), but what gain do you get when someone passes away? Nothing, it’s a completely selfless act. Abraham again shows us how much trouble he went through to bury his wife and how much he paid for the tomb.

“Wisdom”: Why is King Solomon the wisest man? Why does he say seek wisdom? What’s the difference between a wise man and a fool? Read Proverbs or Kohelet and tell me you didn’t come out a wiser man!

This is about 0.0000000000001% of the morality and depth of the Torah/Tanakh. Funny, there were “wisemen” who were so called Christians, who labelled this wisdom the “Old Testament”. Tell me, God said eternal many times to Israel, since when does eternal become old? If King Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun well before the “New Testament” then is he a liar? Only a wise man would be able to solve the mysteries and secrets of the Torah written by God. For the Torah and the Bible is not written like the books of men and sadly it is treated as such.

I truly hope this was insightful and I would be glad to share much more insight to any part of any text! “Not one jot or letter shall pass away, UNTIL heaven and earth pass”

 

[Locoponydirtman]

No.
All one must know to be saved is that they are a sinner with a savior and that savior is God and he came in the flesh, and he died a sinner's death even though he was innocent, and that he resurrected from the dead. That this is imputed to the sinner upon believing.