Then you have not heard the testimony of those who left all to follow Yeshua.
We don't change them. The Holy Spirit does.
Morman missionaries
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Then you have not heard the testimony of those who left all to follow Yeshua.
We don't change them. The Holy Spirit does.
I lived with Mormons for decades...grew up around them. My church was next door to one of their Temples. I know the Mormons extremely well. YMMV
2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the away; and there is one other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
From an LDS, Mormon site that contradicts BoM above. lol
Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...Christians, we believe,who are one in purpose.
Well the trinity expresses that there are three personages as one God.
One God:
Alma 11:27-39, 44
27 And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.
28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?
29 And he answered, No.
30 Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things?
31 And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.
32 And Zeezrom said again: Who is he that shall come? Is it the Son of God?
33 And he said unto him, Yea.
34 And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people in their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.
35 Now Zeezrom said unto the people: See that ye remember these things; for he said there is but one God; yet he saith that the Son of God shall come, but he shall not save his people—as though he had authority to command God.
36 Now Amulek saith again unto him: Behold thou hast lied, for thou sayest that I spake as though I had authority to command God because I said he shall not save his people in their sins.
37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.
38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
Mosiah 15:1-5
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
Mormon 7:7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
Analysis
While the Book of Mormon claims that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God, the definition give is more in line with the heretical doctrine of Modalistic Monarchianism (accepted as true by United Pentecostals today) than it is with the Trinity. According to modalism, the three names for God refer to the three “modes” by which God reveals himself.
https://www.mrm.org/trinity-book-of-mormon
Alma 11:27-39, 44
27 And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.
28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?
29 And he answered, No.
30 Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things?
31 And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.
32 And Zeezrom said again: Who is he that shall come? Is it the Son of God?
33 And he said unto him, Yea.
34 And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people in their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.
35 Now Zeezrom said unto the people: See that ye remember these things; for he said there is but one God; yet he saith that the Son of God shall come, but he shall not save his people—as though he had authority to command God.
36 Now Amulek saith again unto him: Behold thou hast lied, for thou sayest that I spake as though I had authority to command God because I said he shall not save his people in their sins.
37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.
38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
Mosiah 15:1-5
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
Mormon 7:7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
Analysis
While the Book of Mormon claims that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God, the definition give is more in line with the heretical doctrine of Modalistic Monarchianism (accepted as true by United Pentecostals today) than it is with the Trinity. According to modalism, the three names for God refer to the three “modes” by which God reveals himself.
https://www.mrm.org/trinity-book-of-mormon
The Trinity in the Book of Mormon
Mormons today believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate persons who together constitute “the Godhead”. This concept of God cannot be found in the first edition of the Book of Mormon, however. The idea of God in the Book of Mormon closely resembles the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
In 1 Nephi 11:18 in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon (p. 25), Mary is referred to as the “mother of God”. In the 1837 edition, Joseph Smith changed that into “the mother of the Son of God” (Book of Mormon 2013, p. 20)
In 1 Nephi 13:40 in the 1830 edition (p. 32) it says “the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world”. In later editions, this was changed to “the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Saviour of the world (Book of Mormon 2013, p. 27).
These changes have only been applied to the first part of the Book of Mormon. Examples of later verses in which the Trinitarian image of Gods was retained, are Mosiah 16:15 and Alma 11:38-39, in which Jesus is called the “Eternal Father” (Book of Mormon 2013, pp. 179, 236).
Joseph Smith belief in the traditional Christian concept of God is supported by a number of “corrections” he made during his revision of the Bible between 1830 and 1833, which made the adjusted verses more strongly Trinitarian than the original:
In the King James Version of the Bible Joseph Smith used, Luke 10:22, for instance, reads: “and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him”. Joseph Smith changed this to: “Ànd no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it” (Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible 1970, p. 402).
In the King James Bible, 1 Timothy 2:4 reads: “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”, to which Joseph Smith added: “which is in Christ Jesus, who is the only begotten Son of God, and ordained to be a Mediator between God and man; who is one God and hath power over all men” (Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible 1970, p. 496).
The modern Mormon ideas about the nature of God with which this article started, emerged in the second half of the 1830s. Until about 1835, the Mormon concept of God, as reflected by the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and other contemporary sources, was essentially Trinitarian (Alexander 1980).
Implications for the historicity of the first vision
http://www.mormonism101.com/2014/12/trinity-in-book-of-mormon.html
Mormons today believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate persons who together constitute “the Godhead”. This concept of God cannot be found in the first edition of the Book of Mormon, however. The idea of God in the Book of Mormon closely resembles the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
In 1 Nephi 11:18 in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon (p. 25), Mary is referred to as the “mother of God”. In the 1837 edition, Joseph Smith changed that into “the mother of the Son of God” (Book of Mormon 2013, p. 20)
In 1 Nephi 13:40 in the 1830 edition (p. 32) it says “the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world”. In later editions, this was changed to “the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Saviour of the world (Book of Mormon 2013, p. 27).
These changes have only been applied to the first part of the Book of Mormon. Examples of later verses in which the Trinitarian image of Gods was retained, are Mosiah 16:15 and Alma 11:38-39, in which Jesus is called the “Eternal Father” (Book of Mormon 2013, pp. 179, 236).
Joseph Smith belief in the traditional Christian concept of God is supported by a number of “corrections” he made during his revision of the Bible between 1830 and 1833, which made the adjusted verses more strongly Trinitarian than the original:
In the King James Version of the Bible Joseph Smith used, Luke 10:22, for instance, reads: “and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him”. Joseph Smith changed this to: “Ànd no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it” (Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible 1970, p. 402).
In the King James Bible, 1 Timothy 2:4 reads: “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”, to which Joseph Smith added: “which is in Christ Jesus, who is the only begotten Son of God, and ordained to be a Mediator between God and man; who is one God and hath power over all men” (Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible 1970, p. 496).
The modern Mormon ideas about the nature of God with which this article started, emerged in the second half of the 1830s. Until about 1835, the Mormon concept of God, as reflected by the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and other contemporary sources, was essentially Trinitarian (Alexander 1980).
Implications for the historicity of the first vision
http://www.mormonism101.com/2014/12/trinity-in-book-of-mormon.html
- “And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.” (2 Nephi 31:21)
- “And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. . . . Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.” (Mosiah 15:2–5, 7)
- “And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.” (Mormon 7:7)
Well I don't believe Jesus is the eternal father. Which is what that says. Strange.
eternal father comes from Isaiah 9:6
Conservative Version
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given. And the government shall be upon his shoulder. And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
Emphasized Bible
For, A Child, hath been born to us, A Son, hath been given to us, And the dominion is upon his shoulder, - And his Name hath been called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty GOD, Father of Futurity, Prince of Prosperity.
Youngs Literal Translation
For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
The everlasting part basically talks about The Son of God, being without beginning or end, that he is eternal, the maker of all things. The LDS use the phrase to mean that his the spirit father of all people before time begain. We are told in Scripture that Jesus holds all things together.
The point is eternal father realy is not the correct or best translation.
Latin Vulgate has: Peerless among counsellors, the mighty God, Father of the world to come, the Prince of peace.
Latin Vulgate has: Peerless among counsellors, the mighty God, Father of the world to come, the Prince of peace.
https://foxhugh.com/list-of-lists/funny-latin-phrases/
"Festina lente" - "Hurry slowly"
"Bona fide" - "In good faith"
"Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - "Of mortal men, none is wise at all times"
https://www.boredpanda.com/cool-lat...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
"Festina lente" - "Hurry slowly"
"Bona fide" - "In good faith"
"Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - "Of mortal men, none is wise at all times"
https://www.boredpanda.com/cool-lat...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic