More about Israel.

[homwardbound]

Some subscribe to what is known as replacement theology. They reject the idea that God has any purpose for the modern nation of Israel. I find this patently absurd, for reasons I've already stated.

This morning I was listening to the late Derek Prince, who was literally there at the rebirth of the nation of Israel. He knows the scriptures as well as anyone, and better than most. He quoted one that I've overlooked to date and that answers a claim made by superessionists.

In the book of Revelation, John was receiving a vision of the last days. Most scholars believe this was written about 95 AD. Jesus was well and truly ascended, glorified and ruling and reigning. This is how Jesus is described: (Revelation 5:5)

Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Replacement theology has no place in a believer's life. It can lead to antisemitism, as many Jews found to their cost. Salvation is still of the Jews. To show contempt for Israel is to belittle God's plan for that nation. We should be supporting Israel with our prayers and, if we able, with practical help. The world hastens to condemn Israel for Gaza's situation, ignoring the fact that the people of Gaza brought it on themselves. Many Israelis have lost their homes because of missile attacks, farmland has been destroyed and many farms were abandoned because of constant attacks by Hezbollah and Hamas.

I do not hear of aid convoys pouring into Israel. I do hear the constant lies about aid centres been shot at by the IDF. The reality is that Hamas has murdered many who seek food for themselves and their families. Hamas seeks to control aid distribution. They profit from it by selling it and they steal it to feed their fighters.

The world is under the control of Satan. We should not be surprised if the world hates Israel. As the church, we should know better.

I do not see anything out of God's allowing, What?
See Jesus in his conviction from Pontus pilot
When he said to Jesus, do you not understand I have the control?
Jesus replied because for now it is given for a reason. We do not understand yet, Father to me knows best to allow and why, God is fair in the long run, saves Souls not flesh reckon self to be dead to flesh Romans 6
I hate the sin too thank you, trusting Father knows best

 

[brightfame52]

We know the Church, the Body of Christ is Israel because the Body of Christ is or are the Children of God, which also is Israel. Writing to the Romans in Chapter 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

This is both jew and gentile believers with the Spirit in them testifying within them that they are the children of God.

Now in Rom 9 Paul in contrasting two Israels identifies one of them as being the children of God apart from the other 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Now who cant see that the Children of God in this context refers to one of the Israel's in Vs 6

Then in Jn 11 we have the children of God being identified as Israel, Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

These are the same children of God in Rom 8:16 which is the Church, the Body of Christ, them with the Spirit of God in them Rom 8:14-17

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

And if the Children of God they are also heirs. The same heirs that pertain to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Heb 11:8-9

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 14

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

We know the Church, the Body of Christ is Israel

No such thing...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No such thing...

It's definitely not natural Israel, but it definitely is spiritual Israel, which simply means the remnant of Israel that walks according to the holy spirit and is ruled by God.

Do you deny that the first believers in Christ were Israel? That would be the original 12 disciples, the 120 disciples at Pentecost, the 3000 men of Israel and Judah who were saved on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41), the 5 thousand in Jerusalem who believed after that (Acts 4:4), the tens of thousands in Jerusalem that believed (Acts 20:21), not to mention the many tens of thousands of the diaspora who were scattered around the world.

These were all baptized into the body of Christ. Do you think they stopped being Israel because they believed in Christ?

 

[brightfame52]

No such thing...

To you because unfortunately you are in darkness my friend, deceived

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

To you because unfortunately you are in darkness my friend, deceived

We'll agree to disagree. I'm sure there are other things we agree on. And looking at the world today, I don't know that we will be here much longer. And then we will know all the mysteries to know. Have a blessed day.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It's definitely not natural Israel, but it definitely is spiritual Israel, which simply means the remnant of Israel that walks according to the holy spirit and is ruled by God.

Do you deny that the first believers in Christ were Israel? That would be the original 12 disciples, the 120 disciples at Pentecost, the 3000 men of Israel and Judah who were saved on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41), the 5 thousand in Jerusalem who believed after that (Acts 4:4), the tens of thousands in Jerusalem that believed (Acts 20:21), not to mention the many tens of thousands of the diaspora who were scattered around the world.

These were all baptized into the body of Christ. Do you think they stopped being Israel because they believed in Christ?

Agree to disagree. I don't want to push mods beyond their patience. Got a sunny day, cold but no snow so I'm going to get out and enjoy. Come on spring!!! Have a blessed day!

 

[brightfame52]

The New Testament makes it crystal clear that the New Covenant Promises to Covenant Israel in the Old Testament are being fulfilled, not replaced by the New Covenant Church, the Body of Christ on this side of the Cross, which ratified, confirmed the New Covenant, which Christ the Covenant Head of His Body the Church is its Mediator.

Eph 2:11-16

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The One Body here is equivalent to the one commonwealth of Israel in Vs 12


For instance, the word commonwealth politeia in Vs 12 means:

1. the administration of civil affairs
2. a state or commonwealth
3. citizenship, the rights of a citizen
4. Society

The word body/ sōma in Vs 16 means:

is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body

So the commonwealth of Israel is comprised of both jews and gentiles, thats the revelation of the Mystery,

The Mystery was that Gentiles are Part of the commonwealth of Israel, and so the New Covenant promises to Covenant Israel are fulfilled in the NT Church which includes Gentiles. 14

 

[brightfame52]

The Church of the NT fulfills the promises made to Israel because the promises center in Christ the Head of His Body the Church, and He is Israel. Notice some scripture that identifies Jesus Christ the Head of His Body the Church as Israel Hosea 11:1

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Now lets read the fulfillment Matt 2:13-15

13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Now it should be plain to any reasonable person Jesus Christ is being identified here as the fulfillment of a prophecy about Israel!

Now Christ and His Body the Church are One, Gods word intimates. How can the Head be Identified as Israel and His Body not ? For Christ is the True Israel of God with His Members Chosen in Him. It is He that Israel that Glorified God as Gods servant Isa 49:1-3

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Did not Jesus Christ become a servant ? Phil 2:5-8

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Did not Jesus Glorify God the Father in the earth? Jn 17:1-4

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Israel means in the hebrew "God prevails" In Christ God prevails

Israel means in the greek "he shall be a prince of God" Christ is Prince Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here is His Body the Church, because He is the Saviour of His Body Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head/prince of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 15

 

[brightfame52]

The Children of promise !

Paul when writing in Rom 9:6-8 reference is made to the children of promise

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Now if we read carefully, one of the Israels in Vs 6 are the Children of promise in Vs 8

Remember Isaac in Vs 7 was a child of promise to Abraham and Sarah while in their old age, so Israel is being referred to as the children of promise, as Isaac was.

Now Paul writing to the Galatians, which was a mostly Gentile assembly, was being influenced by false teachers, more than likely jews, telling them they needed to be circumcised. So in Gal 4 he writes as it pertained to jew and gentile believers, that they were, like Isaac the children of promise, which is Israel Rom 9:8 Gal 4::28

Now we, brethren[Jew or Gentile] Believers, as Isaac was, are the children of promise[Israel]

So the church comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Christ are #1 Abrahams seed Gal 3:29

.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

#2 Heirs of Promise

#3 Children of Promise Gal 4:28 so the Israel of Rom 9:8

#4 The Israel of God Gal 6:16

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[homwardbound]

Learning truth, standing in belief, Son is risen where Father, Dad, PaPa gives new life
Then as one continues forward trusting God Father and God Son as Won (One) for them. One learns daily new from Father truth over errors still here on earth
One day, all that are sincere in belief to Father will see and say as Galatians 2:20 and not be moved.
Thanks

 

[brightfame52]

Israel my Glory is the Church !

Isa 46:13

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Israel, no not national ethnic israel, but Spiritual Israel, the Lords people from out of all nations, is saved to His Glory.

Any who belong to the New Creation in Christ is Israel His Glory

Eph 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

This includes some gentiles Acts 15:17

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Speaking of the Church Eph 1:12

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 15

 

[homwardbound]

Sincerely, believe God in risen For thee and see new in the love and mercy given thee through risen Son Jesus for thee. Go through troubles willingly so also, remain confident, Father knows all and has a perfect reason to allow anything as revealed. I, see in Job 1, I see to not deny God, anyone else? Even if go through troubles? See James 1 also, about lasting through troubles, to not deny God ever, even though might feel like doing that. Best not to, in the long haul, thank you Father and Son as Won (One)
The rain rains on all, there is no discretion from the rain, whom to fall on. Matters not whether one or another has been bad or good to God or not. So stand in trust no to God in risen Son no matter what Col 1:21-22, 23

I beleive it is finished as said in John 19:30 for us to be new in the risen Son, after his one time death willing death, took away sin first. John 1:29 in his Father's sight, not this world's yet, if ever will, God knows and I stand in trust to God, anyone else?

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel, the peculiar people of God Writing to the Gentile Church to perhaps its Gentile Pastor Titus, Paul writes Tit 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now the proud jews of Christs day considered themselves this special people, probably from scriptures like Ex 19:5

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Deut 14:2

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Ps 135:4

For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

This peculiar distinction however was never to Israel National based upon their ethnicity, but in the midst of the physical nation was a very small remnant who had a God given Faith in Christ, which was His Church, and they were Israel, and thats were the peculiar people would proceed from.

It [Their peculiarity] lied not in their ethnic racial heritage, but in their spiritual God given Faith in Christ, the coming seed of the woman, who was also according to Mystery, the Head of His Body the Church, so they're being that special people lied in His redeeming work for the Church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[homwardbound]

The call is for all, not a few or just the first chosen alone. The first chosen alone was to reveal law, that they could not obey it perfectly ever. Then Son the redeemer came into play, predcited and not understood how, when or really where this would all happen. Man and even Satan did not understand, until after the fact, Jesus being risen and then it was too late for evil to win, Satan got the keys he had taken away, defeated, yet evil remained in of flesh nature, first birth, as still is to this day. Unredeemed flesh
Now, the new life in risen Son is given to us all to believe or not, each consciously so! With good and evil written on the heart of every person. Romans as we all are left to have reprobate mindsets to choose to believe God or not consciously aware of each ones choice and it goes deeper that just Romans 1 seeing Romans 2:1-4, we all are with reprobate minds
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[brightfame52]

See Just as Israel the ethnic jews nationally were the posterity of Father Abraham, Jesus even admitted that Jn 8:37

I know that ye are Abraham's seed[posterity]; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

in like manner the Church, both jew and gentile believers who belong to Christ, are Israel Abrahams Spiritual seed [posterity] Gal 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see that ? Abraham had two different seeds, his seed in Jn 8:37 is different from his seed in Gal 3:29 15

 

[homwardbound]

Isn't it the same seed? You say two seeds. I do not see two seeds
I see only one seed, I see Father and Son are One. Father scattered the seed all over this world to all, not a few Father did this through Son, Son obeyed as led by Father.
Now in any seed anyone gets, there is never any life until it is planted in the ground and dies
The representation I get from the seed is for me to reckon me dead to self, first birth in flesh and blood willingly between God and me, not me and others, that is preached in religion to do, no thank you for me anymore anyways, seeing new in 1 Cor 15

 

[brightfame52]

God had promised Israel Salvation, Justification Isa45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

However, what nobody truly understood, is that this Israel wasnt the Physical nation, but an remnant according to the election of Grace, who were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, also what wasn't known and understood that this Israel would include in these Gospel promises Gentiles, that was a Mystery, something hidden. . The salvation of the Gentiles is in various parts of Scripture called a “mystery,” “hidden mystery,” the “mystery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,” “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs.” Eph.3:4-6;

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Gospel promise to Israel in Isa 45:17,25

Col 1:27

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The Hope of Glory is for Israel Isa 45:25

In the Lord[Christ] shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The promises of Israel's everlasting Salvation, and Justification, was through Christ, hence the promises always said "in the Lord" Thats the Lord Christ !

Remember Peters opening sermon for the New Covenant era, who was he addressing ? Acts 2:36


Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

And later we know Jesus sent Peter to preach it to the Gentiles.

They too partook in the Promises to Save Israel,

They also would be Justified in that Promise "In the Lord[Christ] shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Rom 3:30


Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.


Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee[Christ] shall all nations be blessed.

 

[brightfame52]

That remnant Israel and the Gentile Church are the same, when we consider the book of Romans Romk 15:8-10

Rom 15:8-10

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers[Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, David]:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people[Israel]. 15

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is the NT Fulfillment of Remnant Israel, because under the OC national Israel under national covenant was a shadow and type, and at the time were Gods people and peculiar treasure. In this regard back then, the gentiles were not a people at all, not a people of God, but now, with the inauguration of the NT era by the blood of Christ, both saved jews and saved gentiles take on the sacred identification of Gods People and Peculiar Treasure. In the letter to Titus Paul wrote concerning the redemption they partook of through Christ says Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

In Rom 15 Paul identifies now the gentiles, believers as the people of God Rom 15:9-10

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

Remember, Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. or

Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Paul writing to the Church of God in Corinth 2 Cor 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

He identifies them in the 6th Chapter with the Covenant Promises made to Israel of old, advising them of separation 2 Cor 6:14-16

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is a New Covenant promise being fulfilled to the Church of God

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Jer 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 15