Miracle workers who couldn't heal themselves!!!

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#41
For the longest time seed faith was reserved for financial blessing. In other words, sow a seed and reap a financial harvest. If this isn't bad enough, now they've started preaching the sowing of seeds for safety from demons. I saw a video of Kathryn Krick telling a woman her son's demon couldn't be cast out until she sowed for his release. Robert Morris teaches a variation of this saying if you don't tithe you leave yourself open to demonic attack.

The problem isn't so much with shysters as it is with the false doctrine which is at the core of all fake healers.
 

FRB72

Active member
Sep 27, 2023
122
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28
England
#42
For the longest time seed faith was reserved for financial blessing. In other words, sow a seed and reap a financial harvest. If this isn't bad enough, now they've started preaching the sowing of seeds for safety from demons. I saw a video of Kathryn Krick telling a woman her son's demon couldn't be cast out until she sowed for his release. Robert Morris teaches a variation of this saying if you don't tithe you leave yourself open to demonic attack.

The problem isn't so much with shysters as it is with the false doctrine which is at the core of all fake healers.
Everything goes wrong when the Law of Attraction (The Secret etc) “Power of Positive Thinking” gets mixed up with the idea of Biblical faith.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,234
3,575
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#43
Everything goes wrong when the Law of Attraction (The Secret etc) “Power of Positive Thinking” gets mixed up with the idea of Biblical faith.
Everything goes wrong when scripture is incorrectly understood.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
623
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#45
You know people said the same thing to Christ...look he can heal others but not himself. Yeah.. that's who some of you are. Healing the sick.. "he's of the devil he has a demon".

I read a story today " This person was choosing to defend the choices of their relative and sided with them on why they did what they did. While I can appreciate a loved one looking out for another one, what I did not like was the content and delivery of the email. It was not filled with love, but rather it was filled with accusing and mean remarks. After reading the email, I remember feeling angry and hurt over what was said and the statements that were made against me. But I think the worst part for me was that the person who hurt me was a Christian. Yes, you read that right, the person who was mean to me was a Jesus Christ follower and lover of God. "

All this is is gossip which stops the sweet sweet holy Spirit.. to freely knowingly grieve Him. "casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true."
 

Fillan

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2022
391
409
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#46
You know people said the same thing to Christ...look he can heal others but not himself. Yeah.. that's who some of you are. Healing the sick.. "he's of the devil he has a demon".
."
Hello Blade. The enemies of Jesus attacked the source of his miracles, saying they were of the devil. The Pharisees didn't ever question that the miracles took place- when Jesus healed it was obvious, very spectacular, often public and instantaneous. No-one could say that Lazarus wasn't raised from the dead, because he was there alive.

Many, but not all, of the modern day televangelists and 'faith healers', people question whether the miracles actually took place. There are second hand claims and rumours of healings. Someone, somewhere, sometime was healed of something. God Bless :)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#47
Why would He not heal? since He has the power. Why would He not promise healing to everybody? ... wait a minute He does.
Amen, brother! All in Christ have a glorious living hope...

John 12:24
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.”

1 Corinthians 15:36
“Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:”

Glorification awaits all who die in Christ.

Psalms 116:15
“Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.”
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#49
This is very sad. Are there no genuine miracle workers at all?
It is still good to know that we can go directly to the Lord and take all our cares and prayers directly to Him. :)(y)
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,749
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#51
Some things are mysteries. I went to meetings where Harry Greenwood was preaching. A woman sitting next to me we was healed as he preached. She was a hard nosed business woman, having her own real estate business. I knew several others healed in Mr Greenwood's meetings. Harry died of a heart attack while jogging.

He was middle aged. I've prayed for people who got healed instantly. Others got worse! I had a potentially fatal condition about 3 years ago. My now wife prayed for me. A doctor testified that she saw my wife's prayer answered to the letter. God is not a robot. He is God and heals when and how as He sees fit.

When they get worse, it is a sign you are having success and the adversary is redoubling his effort to steal, kill and destroy, so don't stop. It is a process, too often those who pray stop when they don't see instantaneous healing, several times scripture mentions, "and he began to be healed form that hour" .
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#53
Jamie wanted to go. He had been given a vision of what awaited him on the other side. He found Earth to be a foul puddle of filth in comparison to Heaven.

Jesus Himself was mocked for not healing Himself.
Luke 4:23
“And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.”
Who wrote Physician Heal Thyself in the Big Book?
Dr. Earl M: He is the author of the "Physician Heal Thyself" story in the big book. Dr. Earl M from Seattle he got sober June 15, 1953 he is the author of "Physician Heal Thyself" in AA's Big Book, he is speaking in 1986 and was 33 years sober at the time of this speak.
Similar proverbs with a medical theme appear in other Jewish literature.[4] For example, "Physician, physician, heal thine own limp!" (Imperial Aramaic: אסיא אסי חיגרתך) can be found in Genesis Rabbah 23:4 (300–500 CE).[5][6] Such proverbs also appear in literary Classical texts from at least the 6th century BC. The Greek dramatist Aeschylus refers to one in his Prometheus Bound, where the chorus comments to the suffering Prometheus, "Like an unskilled doctor, fallen ill, you lose heart and cannot discover by which remedies to cure your own disease.
Nolland, J. (1979). Classical and Rabbinic Parallels to "Physician, Heal Yourself". pp. 193–209.
intertextual.bible/text/luke-4.23-genesis-rabbah-23.4
Freedman, H.; Simon, Maurice (1939). Midrash Rabbah, Translated into English. Vol. 1. p. 195.
Herbert Weir Smyth, LCL, Theoi Classical Texts Library, lines 473–5.
E. D. Hirsch, Jr.; Joseph F. Kett; James Trefil, eds. (2002). "Physician, heal thyself". The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. ISBN 0-618-22647-8. OCLC 50166721. Retrieved 2008-12-05.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#54

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#56

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,176
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Brighton, MI
#57
This whole thread is bogus, no grasp of the reality of how God works is in this.
John Wimber was closer to the Lord than any I see who have posted here.
It is easier to see God move in healing for a stranger than a family member since you know all the reasons He shouldn't.
Even our friend Nehemiah, as on track as he is, posts as though it is the persons own power that heals, NT is very clear it is the Father working through the believer who has offered themselves and been accepted, to be the intermediary.
Jesus received the baptism of John and the Father spoke, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", did anyone here receive the same when they were baptized?
Much more could have been gained by focusing on the persons own walk than posting huge and obvious misunderstandings of scripture.
best wishes
This caused a massive brain hemorrhage, from which he died on November 17, 1997, at Western Medical Center in Santa Ana, California. He was 63 years old. Wimber's health problems had challenged his theology and experience.

Wimber had already recovered from cancer in 1993 and a stroke in 1995 (CT, Oct. 7, 1996, p. 49). Last year he underwent triple-bypass heart surgery.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/january12/8t1058.html

In March 1993, John Wimber, the founder of the Vineyard movement, discovered he had an inoperable tumor, treatable only by radiation. Here he tells what it looked like to be on the other side of the healing process.

-John Wimber
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1996/october7/6tb049.html
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#58
The Healing Myth: A Critique of the Modern Healing Movementbooks.google.com › books
J. Keir Howard · 2013

There was a great deal of “hype,” not only in the advertising brochures, but also on the first day of the conference. Initially Wimber gave the impression that it is commonplace for non-Christians who attend his church in Yorba Linda, California, to be converted one day, and the next to be out on the street casting out demons and healing the sick without even knowing John 3:16 (Wimber’s illustration, not mine.) Yet on the second day of the conference there was almost a complete reversal of this impression, with Wimber acknowledging that they see many who are not healed and that some people for whom they pray, die rather than recover. ...
To become sidetracked on signs and wonders is to be entranced by sensationalism and is not something which Jesus encouraged; in fact it was something which he discouraged probably because he was only too aware that people would seek him for the wrong reasons. Such an overdue concern with miraculous signs reminds one of Augustine’s comment: “Jesus is usually sought after for something else, not for his own sake.”

A third disturbing aspect of the conference was the strong anti-intellectualism which Wimber exhibited from time to time. His insistence that “At some point critical thinking must be laid aside” is nothing less than dangerous. Wimber several times equated critical thinking with unbelief, and his apparent inability to distinguish the two is most disturbing. At one point he asked: “When are we going to see a generation who doesn’t try to understand this book [the Bible], but just believes it?” In effect, this is saying “When are we going to see a generation that believes my interpretation of this book without question?” This strongly anti-intellectual strain which shows through in Wimber is typical of nineteenth century American revivalism and is just the sort of thing that evangelicalism has been trying to live down in the twentieth century. It disparages God’s gracious gift of our mind and reflects ill on a creator who chose to endow us with the ability to think critically.

At the same time as he disparaged the intellect, Wimber attempted to use intellectual argument to convince his listeners of his case. In a lecture on “world views” Wimber attempted to argue that the Western “Worldview” is the product of Platonic dualistic thinking, first introduced into Western theology by Augustine. Its growing acceptance “during the 17th and 18th centuries” caused a “new science based on materialistic naturalism” to emerge which resulted in a “secularization of science and a mystification of religion.”1 Wimber seems to have little appreciation that throughout the centuries Christians have struggled with these questions; for most in his audience this grossly-simplified explanation is enough. There was no acknowledgment of the extent to which Western thinking is rooted in a Biblical understanding. At this point it would be worthwhile asking if Wimber has given serious thought as to how other “world views” have affected his own, particularly when it comes to the methodology presented as regards to healing. In the seminar on healing, one of the phenomena one was instructed to look for was “hot-spots,” a buzz-word in the New Age thinking emerging in California, which has a hearty blend of Oriental mysticism and Eastern religion.

Aside from these questions about Wimber’s grasp of intellectual questions, there are some serious difficulties in his theology for a thinking evangelical. In the fist place, his use of Scripture is highly problematic. His starting place seems to be his own experience and Scripture is drawn in to proof-text his own position. This was particularly seen in his teaching methodology regarding healing. People were taught a theology of healing based on the observation of phenomenological responses (shaking, stiffening, respiration, laughter, fluttering of eyelids, etc.) and were encouraged to use such subjective criteria as the basis on which to evaluate spiritual responses.

A second theological difficulty is Wimber’s radical Arminianism (some might well argue it
https://www.equip.org/articles/assessing-the-wimber-phenomenon/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#59
This is like the Jews who taunted Christ on the cross ... "He saved others, Himself He cannot saved"

They condemn themselves because they acknowledge that He did save.

The are folks missing from that list

Elisha who raised the dead but he died of illness
Peter whose shadow even brought healing needed to be dressed and carried in old age.
Lazarus who was raised from the dead must have eventually died from something.

It's a dumb argument because healing is something God does. It's a prophetic work, a foretaste of the powers of the age to come when there will be no sickness [why don't you glory?]

These people all cry with one voice "don't look to us, we are frail, we are human" Look to Jesus the Healer.
No one here brother, friend are mocking Our Lord. We are looking at us mere carbon life forms. Many false claims are made about miracles. When investigated, it never adds up.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#60
But when you have ministered healing, when you have witnessed incredible miracles, when you have received miraculous healing you know summit ... you don't know.
Was there objective follow up by a third source? There is a group of Christian Doctors oganization that does that. They have verified some healings, most were not.