Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

[MessageOfTheCross]

The doctrine of Calvinism is Heresy!
a. Once Saved Always Saved
b. Election & Predestination
c. Limited Atonement
d. It is a work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).
e. Calvinism does not believe in free will.

The five points of Calvinism can be summarized by the acronym TULIP. T stands for total depravity, U for unconditional election, L for limited atonement, I for irresistible grace, and P for perseverance of the saints.

Yes, I Believe In Eternal Security, but I do not believe in unconditional eternal security.

The Once Saved Always Doctrine came from the serpent himself. He told Eve that she shall not surely die.

“as a “dragon,” he shows his power; as a “serpent,” he shows his cunning; as the “Devil,” he is the accuser; and as “Satan,” he is the adversary”

A little leaven, leaven’s the whole lump! 1 Timothy 4:1-2

“Sheep follow Jesus: for they know His Voice (the true heart will know His Voice, and the false heart will follow others). And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him”

Calvinism believe Jesus died on the Cross only for the people God chose to be saved. This is false doctrine!

When Jesus Christ hung on the Cross, He died for every human being that would ever be born on the planet Earth. Jesus Saves and His Blood washes whiter than snow for all to come in. Don’t believe the lies of the Devil, that some can come but you can’t come (the false deception doctrine of Calvinism is stealth).

John 3:16 and Revelation 22:17 opens the door to every single individual in the world; Jesus died for all and, therefore, all can be Saved, if they will only come.

 

[maxamir]

A complete misunderstanding of Romans 9.

You ignored the context of Romans 9 and will pay the price for distorting the scripture.

Romans 9:30-31
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained
righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law
of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

Israel was hardened not the Gentile nations.

The promise, God's choice was centered on those that would call on His name.

By faith and not by works.

Here is your quotation.

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

This is what Romans 9:21 states in the context of Paul's narration, shown below.

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to
make one vessel for GENTILES and another for ISRAEL?

Your slowly killing me with your cherry picked versus that ignore the context.

What the hell do you think Paul is talking about in Romans 9,10,11?

and now you completely twist Scripture by replacing words to fit into your distorted theology. Have you not read what God does to those who do so?

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

Both vessels are made up both Jews and Gentiles but you have perverted the Scripture to say that only one was made for honour!

Until you put Christ at the centre of Scripture and not Israel, you will continue to be judicially blinded as were the Jews who stumbled on Him and are still in their shame.

Rom 9:33 As it is written: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STUMBLING STONE AND ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."

 

[maxamir]

He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world ... for what? THAT'S where you and Calvin and Mr Pink go wrong.

He chose us to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace. That's what it says .... it does not exclude anybody from being saved.

Who is the us???

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

As with all the epistles that are written to the saints and not those who do not believe.

2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

 

[maxamir]

round and round in circles you go

It was Isaac's seed, the children of the promise who rejected Christ, their rejection of Christ is actually part of the promise itself "In you will the families of the earth bless themselves" THAT'S the promise, THAT'S the election.

How did it come to pass? by their giving Christ up to be crucified as they were appointed to do.

Their disobedience was YOUR salvation. What're you grumbling against the Jews for?

They stumbled as they were meant to do. But they have not fallen. Don't quote half scriptures at me Sunny Jim, if you want to quote their casting away then quote also their eventual acceptance. You want to talk about their demise but not their rise.

If their failure was predicted and came to pass then so will their success which is also predicted come to pass.

the remnant that God had chosen from among them were saved as Scripture proclaims in Christ but you seem to think that all who think themselves somehow still connected to an ancient tribe of people are saved by their race and not by grace.

Rom_9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

Rom_11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

With the destruction of the temple and their sacrificial system their house was left desolate as Christ had prophesied because a New Covenant was brought in made up of true Jews who are circumcised of heart and not simply of the flesh.

 

[maxamir]

nonsense Paul called upon the Galatians to return to the simplicity of the gospel.

are you now also denying eternal punishment???

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

round and round in circles you go

It was Isaac's seed, the children of the promise who rejected Christ, their rejection of Christ is actually part of the promise itself "In you will the families of the earth bless themselves" THAT'S the promise, THAT'S the election.

How did it come to pass? by their giving Christ up to be crucified as they were appointed to do.

Their disobedience was YOUR salvation. What're you grumbling against the Jews for?

They stumbled as they were meant to do. But they have not fallen. Don't quote half scriptures at me Sunny Jim, if you want to quote their casting away then quote also their eventual acceptance. You want to talk about their demise but not their rise.

If their failure was predicted and came to pass then so will their success which is also predicted come to pass.

Look at who is studying their Bible. Nice work my friend. These things can only be understood by people committed to knowing the Eternal Plan of God.

 

[maxamir]

Not sure I understand your post.

You replied to my previous post I assume.

Here is what you said.

God indeed has not rejected His people from the Old Covenant and has chosen
a very small remnant from among them just as He has also done among the Gentiles
whom He foreknew.

The people that God foreknew in Romans eight and eleven, has nothing to do with
the Gentiles.

In the the text ( Romans 2 to Romans 11 ), Paul is not talking about the Gentiles!

Paul is talking about a remnant of Israel and all Israel will be saved.

There is nothing about a remnant of the Gentiles being saved, in Romans or any other letter.

God foreknew Israel, God formerly chose Israel.

Paul is explaining why Israel failed, do you understand?

The text ( Romans ) cannot be used by a Calvinist unless you cherry pick.

it would be good if you actually read the Book of Romans.

Rom_1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.
Rom_3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom_9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
Rom_11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Rom_11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
Rom_11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom_15:9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written: "FOR THIS REASON I WILL CONFESS TO YOU AMONG THE GENTILES, AND SING TO YOUR NAME."
Rom_15:10 And again he says: "REJOICE, O GENTILES, WITH HIS PEOPLE!"
Rom_15:11 And again: "PRAISE THE LORD, ALL YOU GENTILES! LAUD HIM, ALL YOU PEOPLES!"
Rom_15:12 And again, Isaiah says: "THERE SHALL BE A ROOT OF JESSE; AND HE WHO SHALL RISE TO REIGN OVER THE GENTILES, IN HIM THE GENTILES SHALL HOPE."

 

[Inquisitor]

and now you completely twist Scripture by replacing words to fit into your distorted theology. Have you not read what God does to those who do so?

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

Both vessels are made up both Jews and Gentiles but you have perverted the Scripture to say that only one was made for honour!

Until you put Christ at the centre of Scripture and not Israel, you will continue to be judicially blinded as were the Jews who stumbled on Him and are still in their shame.

Rom 9:33 As it is written: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STUMBLING STONE AND ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."

The center of all scripture is Jesus Christ, amen.

Christ is the full revelation of the scripture.

Boast in Christ and nothing else, that includes Calvin.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.

A person cannot be saved unless they have the Holy Spirit, God's seal of ownership.

Once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are saved.

So when does a person receive the Holy Spirit?

 

[Inquisitor]

it would be good if you actually read the Book of Romans.

Rom_1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.
Rom_3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom_9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
Rom_11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Rom_11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
Rom_11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom_15:9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written: "FOR THIS REASON I WILL CONFESS TO YOU AMONG THE GENTILES, AND SING TO YOUR NAME."
Rom_15:10 And again he says: "REJOICE, O GENTILES, WITH HIS PEOPLE!"
Rom_15:11 And again: "PRAISE THE LORD, ALL YOU GENTILES! LAUD HIM, ALL YOU PEOPLES!"
Rom_15:12 And again, Isaiah says: "THERE SHALL BE A ROOT OF JESSE; AND HE WHO SHALL RISE TO REIGN OVER THE GENTILES, IN HIM THE GENTILES SHALL HOPE."

This is a line from a previous post.

In the the text ( Romans 2 to Romans 11 ), Paul is not talking about the Gentiles!

Your quoting from Romans 15?

Your reply was erroneous.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

it would be good if you actually read the Book of Romans.

It would be good if you were kind rather than saying something like this. In fact, if you said this nonsense to me at your church, I'd turn round and walk out. Christians do not talk to each other this way. Stop trying to crush the spirits of your Brothers and Sisters. It is rude and you are commanded by Messiah to do no such thing.

 

[Evmur]

are you now also denying eternal punishment???

I am not

... those who are bought with blood will not know eternal punishment ... though they backslide

 

[Evmur]

the remnant that God had chosen from among them were saved as Scripture proclaims in Christ but you seem to think that all who think themselves somehow still connected to an ancient tribe of people are saved by their race and not by grace.

Rom_9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

Rom_11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

With the destruction of the temple and their sacrificial system their house was left desolate as Christ had prophesied because a New Covenant was brought in made up of true Jews who are circumcised of heart and not simply of the flesh.

"Even so at this present time ..." that is in Paul's time, indeed he numbers himself among the remnant. The Jewish church were the remnant.

We first read about the remnant in Elijah's ministry a very small number, just 7, 000 who had not bowed the knee or kissed baal. Mightily discouraged was Elijah on this account. But God showed Elijah that this was not the end of the story. God showed Elijah how that through his successor Elisha and through the righteous rule of King Jehu the whole nation would turn back to Jehovah God.

The purpose of the remnant is to keep the testimony alive until in God's good time the whole shall be brought in.

I do not need you tell me that Israel has stumbled, I know that.
You need me to tell you that though they have stumbled they have not fallen. Paul sums up all he has been teaching about the Jews by saying [with their election in view] All Israel will be saved.

 

[Evmur]

Who is the us???

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

As with all the epistles that are written to the saints and not those who do not believe.

2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

You never seem to grasp the fact that if we are indeed saints and faithful in Christ it is so because of the Jews, without them you could not be saved. Yet you have taken on this haughty attitude toward them. I keep telling you the undeniable truth

If their election has failed then so may your election fail. If God does not keep faith with His promises toward them then He may not keep faith with His promises toward you.

You are made fellow citizens of THEIR commonwealth, co-heir and partaker of their promises contained in ordinance yet not by obeying the law but through faith in Christ.

If you take way the Jews you have no commonwealth, no promises, no covenant for even the new covenant is made with them.

Where is your heart of gratitude? I ask that of all christians.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your
salvation having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.

A person cannot be saved unless they have the Holy Spirit, God's seal of ownership.
Once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are saved.

So when does a person receive the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[maxamir]

The center of all scripture is Jesus Christ, amen.

Christ is the full revelation of the scripture.

Boast in Christ and nothing else, that includes Calvin.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.

A person cannot be saved unless they have the Holy Spirit, God's seal of ownership.

Once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are saved.

So when does a person receive the Holy Spirit?

when God gives the Holy Spirit to them according to His will through the preaching of the Gospel, which is evidenced in them becoming new creatures and confirmed to be His children who gladly submit to Him and obey His command to repent and believe on Christ and seek to bring forth holy fruit to His glory.

 

[maxamir]

This is a line from a previous post.

In the the text ( Romans 2 to Romans 11 ), Paul is not talking about the Gentiles!

Your quoting from Romans 15?

Your reply was erroneous.

the Gentiles as also being a remnant of God's elect are mentioned before Romans 15 as confirmed below and you seem to ignore.

Rom_1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.
Rom_3:29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
Rom_9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
Rom_11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Rom_11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
Rom_11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[maxamir]

It would be good if you were kind rather than saying something like this. In fact, if you said this nonsense to me at your church, I'd turn round and walk out. Christians do not talk to each other this way. Stop trying to crush the spirits of your Brothers and Sisters. It is rude and you are commanded by Messiah to do no such thing.

If you read the thread you would see that to whom this was written claimed that remnant Gentiles are not mentioned anywhere in the Book of Romans and I have lovingly corrected him as instructed to do so in Scripture for it is given for this reason as mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 which your name here points to.

Christians are always called to give an answer to those who ask them a reason for the hope that is in them with meekness and reverence to God and I sincerely seek to do so to those who are teachable but for them that continually ignore the plain truth of Scripture, they are called to be lovingly dealt with the rod of truth with which offense is expected and which Christ warned would happen.

Was Paul wrong in openly rebuking Peter in Galatians 2:11-14?

I agree with the old Russian proverb which says "It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie" and I believe the Scriptures also agree.

Pro_27:5 Open rebuke is better Than love carefully concealed.

Pro_9:8b Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.

Christians are called to love people more than the fear of possibly offending them which the Gospel is assured of doing to those who are proud of heart.

 

[maxamir]

I am not

... those who are bought with blood will not know eternal punishment ... though they backslide

those who fall away and never return and die in their sin will know that they were never backsliders married to the Lord but were reprobate never chosen by Him for salvation.

 

[maxamir]

"Even so at this present time ..." that is in Paul's time, indeed he numbers himself among the remnant. The Jewish church were the remnant.

We first read about the remnant in Elijah's ministry a very small number, just 7, 000 who had not bowed the knee or kissed baal. Mightily discouraged was Elijah on this account. But God showed Elijah that this was not the end of the story. God showed Elijah how that through his successor Elisha and through the righteous rule of King Jehu the whole nation would turn back to Jehovah God.

The purpose of the remnant is to keep the testimony alive until in God's good time the whole shall be brought in.

I do not need you tell me that Israel has stumbled, I know that.
You need me to tell you that though they have stumbled they have not fallen. Paul sums up all he has been teaching about the Jews by saying [with their election in view] All Israel will be saved.

All of the true Israel of God being called the remnant was indeed saved in Christ and was being saved in Paul's time and will be saved until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled which happened as Daniel and Christ prophesied in the temple being destroyed which ended the sacrificial system of the Old Covenant and ushered in the New Covenant in which true Israelites are the seed of Abraham in Christ being circumcised of the heart and not of the flesh because Christ made both one in Him (Eph 2:11-18).

Those who call themselves Jews today follow the oral traditions of the Talmudic Pharisees and not the Scriptures, who Christ warned twice were imposters of the Synagogue of Satan. It is the false dispensational eschatology that has deceived so many today like yourself that is the cause of the open massacre of civilians among those who have more semitic blood than those who claim to be semitic and is well documented in this video below.

Must see: THE MYSTERY OF ISRAEL - SOLVED!

 

[maxamir]

You never seem to grasp the fact that if we are indeed saints and faithful in Christ it is so because of the Jews, without them you could not be saved. Yet you have taken on this haughty attitude toward them. I keep telling you the undeniable truth

If their election has failed then so may your election fail. If God does not keep faith with His promises toward them then He may not keep faith with His promises toward you.

You are made fellow citizens of THEIR commonwealth, co-heir and partaker of their promises contained in ordinance yet not by obeying the law but through faith in Christ.

If you take way the Jews you have no commonwealth, no promises, no covenant for even the new covenant is made with them.

Where is your heart of gratitude? I ask that of all christians.

the Israelites of old were a perfect picture and testimony of the depravity of man being chosen by God and yet utterly failing in obedience to Him. To them indeed were given the Scriptures which only served to make most of them more accountable unto their greater judgement but to them also was given the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-33) which was fulfilled in Christ (Heb 8:8-13) and that David's tent which was prophesied in Amos 9:11 to be rebuilt has already been fulfilled as confirmed below in the New Covenant people of God in which there is neither Jew or Gentile anymore but are one in Him (Gal 3:28).

Act 15:15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
Act 15:16 'AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN AND WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID, WHICH HAS FALLEN DOWN; I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL SET IT UP;
Act 15:17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, EVEN ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME, SAYS THE LORD WHO DOES ALL THESE THINGS.'