Matthew 5:39 Why would God command us to not resist evil?

[seed_time_harvest]

Hi Seed Time

I really do understand hating the sin but loving the sinner. But that verse isn't saying that. It's saying to not stop the evil. If a criminal were raping torturing and killing your family, you really think Jesus and God want us to say oh well and preach gospel to them rather than defend our loved ones? Could you live with yourself after that happened if you did and didn't resist? Be honest.

Of course I wouldn’t be trying to preach to them at a time like that no more than I would be In church trying to tell a man politely not to use the womens bathroom,I would toss them out,I think you misunderstood what I said an argued a scenario of your own making.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Hi Seed Time

I really do understand hating the sin but loving the sinner. But that verse isn't saying that. It's saying to not stop the evil. If a criminal were raping torturing and killing your family, you really think Jesus and God want us to say oh well and preach gospel to them rather than defend our loved ones? Could you live with yourself after that happened if you did and didn't resist? Be honest.

By The Way,you should post the words In the verses of the book and chapter also so that I can quickly understand better what you are saying without me having to go to It and research It to see If I agree with your Interpretation

 

[oyster67]

Our world, is most definitely an evil place. John 3:16 tells is that if Jesus says it, believe what he says or Heaven is withheld. Jesus then tells us in Matthew 5:39 not to resist evil but instead to even assist it (give our cloak, go a mile with it.) Why would we stand idley by while our loved one is tortured or killed and rather than resist say the kids are in the other room. I try, and try, and try.. to come to terms with this sudden change from "eye for an eye" and I"m seeking but not finding. Opinions?

Is our God not big enough to take care of both us and our children? Do we think ourselves to be our own strong deliverers? We like to think of ourselves to be both noble and chivalrous, but we must become like children to enter the Kingdom.

Isaiah
50:2 Wherefore, when I came, [was there] no man? when I called, [was there] none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because [there is] no water, and dieth for thirst.
50:3 I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering.

We are not called to resist evil. We are called to flee from it. Flee to our strong deliverer.

 

[Martin13]

That audience under the old testament. Its why we don't see Paul saying the same things .

Hi through faith,

I apologize in advance for my seeming ignorance and hope you will forgive it.
To me, when I read the bible it is ALL said to the specific persons being addressed at that time, rather than say Humanity past present and future. So when someone says well this is meant for Joe alone, but this is meant for everyone, well.. its boggling. It feels like one must be some sort of wizard just to know when the bible is intended for all and when its just a person. I mean, is this your opinion on the matter or is it an opinion held by a majority (which majority) or is it simply fact and there is some easy way that I can know this and just don't recognize it for some reason?

kind regards, Martin

 

[Martin13]

Is our God not big enough to take care of both us and our children? Do we think ourselves to be our own strong deliverers? We like to think of ourselves to be both noble and chivalrous, but we must become like children to enter the Kingdom.

Isaiah
50:2 Wherefore, when I came, [was there] no man? when I called, [was there] none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because [there is] no water, and dieth for thirst.
50:3 I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering.

We are not called to resist evil. We are called to flee from it. Flee to our strong deliverer.

Hi Oyster,
I have done this, however while I can speak on many times I myself have been scooped up from trouble, this isn't happening to all, and they suffer and die, some without knowing the Lord, because evil is not being resisted. The pain and anguish of not protecting those we love, is hell on earth. I have this feeling we ARE to resist evil, love the sinner hate the sin, and somehow I'm missing something, or its twisted.

If we were to make a chart of persons facing adversity of all kinds and the outcomes they encounter, and divide that chart into two sets of parameters, Christians and NON - Christians. Do you believe that we would overwhelmingly see that Christians were more often rescued from adversity than NON - Christians?

God, absolutely has the power to do any/everything. No doubt. However I believe that when we examine such a chart as I described we would not see that Christians are overwhelmingly rescued. (don't take this the wrong way as I suggested I have lived things that physical laws don't explain, and I'm not a believer of coincidence. But my experience is not every Christians experience.)

kind regards,
Martin

 

[Martin13]

In scripture we are also told to defend the helpless, promote righteous judgement and obey the law. Jus like Christ did.
We must certainly not sit idly by while others are being attacked or in danger.
(Psalm 82 v 4. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.)
(Pro 24 v 10 If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength is small. 11 Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.)

Jesus is the primary example of not resisting evil when it was aimed at only himself. However, He often defended people, and spoke up for those others looked down upon. That is a whole different matter. That has nothing to do with defending ego, taking offence, or self preservation.

Jesus taught this so strongly because He came from a culture of law, where the principle was an "eye for an eye" - give them what they deserve- type of payback.

But, instead, He lived out and brought the message of love overcoming hate, and taught us that the meek and the persecuted and so on, are blessed. Forgiveness and Mercy without measure, demonstrating His abounding love and grace in His human form, to the very end, even asking forgiveness from the Father, for those who tortured and crucified Him.

We are definitly not here to battle with people, but with sin. (Romas 6 v 12 - we do not fight against flesh and blood ...)
When we do not retaliate, or place our life of higher value than our attacker or enemy, this is perhaps the fulfilment of the meaning here. When we do this, we are entering into Christ's suffering, Showing the fruits of his Spirit, by turning the other cheek and loving our enemies and leaving room for God to repay if it is needed, Romans 12:19. We remove our self from the seat of the judge, and stand in the gap for the lost soul.

God is our example, and He does not deal with us as our sins deserve. For this reason, we as ambassadors of Christ, need to be a living testimony to the fact His love is worth far more than our comforts, our lives or this world is to us. We are to build up treasure in heaven and not on earth, all we have comes from the hand of God anyway, and He can give us all we need regardless of how many times it is taken from us.

Possessions, even this life, are not things we cling to, rather we cling to Christ and bear fruits of his love, even in the face of evil done to us. As believers, we are here to reveal His love and the good news to one another and to a lost world. No other reason. Sometimes that means defending someone, sometimes that means not resisting evil. The Spirit of the law is what matters in this regard, and we can apply scripture with common sense and the aid of the Holy Spirit to know what is the most loving thing to do in such situations.

Hi Taratose,
I like the setting you propose. It is more comfortable to consider. However ( ugh .. there is always a but it seems) the balm you offer comes from the old testament. Where along with the balm you offer stands eye for an eye.

Jesus says in Mathew 5:38 39
"[38] Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. "

So it is my thought that he is negating that philosophy in favor of the the new one he offers (39)

I do understand that Jesus stood up (to a degree) for others. The sex worker people were going to stone, the people selling and exchanging in the church, the little tree he cursed to death that had no food for him when he rode in town on the donkey etc.

If today, someone invades your home and harms your family, intends to do great evil to them .. what would you do, that you feel God is okay with?

kind regards,
Martin

 

[Martin13]

Guardian1970 said:
[/QUOTE
Final Point;
You claim you are a “believer” yet call into question all of scripture because it was written by man. Yet you are man and without proof, but “feeling”, call into question all of scripture written by men who we believe are chosen and guided by God? Let me know when you catch up to your tail?


If God wanted robots, who never questioned sir, he would certainly not have given us minds that question. Cults tell people not to question, because they don't want people find out the truth.

Satan, MOST CERTAINLY does not want people to question. God? The God I know does not fear questions, he welcomes them, gave us minds that would seek answers. Further God INVITES us to seek and find. Want me to post that verse again?

It troubles me greatly that anyone would tell a fellow Christian to blindly accept everything in the light that others interpret things. Most everything in the bible if I go to two different Christians and say "what do you think of this" will not give a uniform answer.

Tell me, and I say this with respect, exactly and specifically supported by bible verses do you believe that a person must do in order to attain Heaven and eternal life. Please leave nothing out.

kind regards,
Martin

 

[Martin13]

Guardian,

It doesn't matter one whit, to me, if you believe I know the Lord or not. But I will tell you this, and then I too.. will stop my conversation with you. When a fellow Christian comes to me with doubts or questions, I pray and respond to them as best I can asking the Lord to guide me. As for someone comes to me with doubts or questions and I bully, badger, condemn, and accuse them rather than reason?

That may be okay for you, but it will never be for me. I am extremely grateful that others here have reached out and are doing their best to help me find answers. Because if I had encountered ONLY you, and your "advice" it would create a great urging in me to dismiss the Lord as utter BS. No offense but that is as true as it is that there is a sun in the sky.

I will pray for you Guardian. I will pray that God bring upon you the trials of Job. Not to bring you harm, but to bring you understanding and compassion for others.

I hope you do know the Lord, and that as a result we can pick up our conversation on the other side, but on this earth, your days of browbeating me are over.

I will question anything I please. I will not be ran into the ground for doing it. That's final.

 

[throughfaith]

Hi through faith,

I apologize in advance for my seeming ignorance and hope you will forgive it.
To me, when I read the bible it is ALL said to the specific persons being addressed at that time, rather than say Humanity past present and future. So when someone says well this is meant for Joe alone, but this is meant for everyone, well.. its boggling. It feels like one must be some sort of wizard just to know when the bible is intended for all and when its just a person. I mean, is this your opinion on the matter or is it an opinion held by a majority (which majority) or is it simply fact and there is some easy way that I can know this and just don't recognize it for some reason?

kind regards, Martin

Of course every word is wrought by the Holy Spirit. Its not like it says " hey you reading this in the future ...." But it does say through out who each book / letter who its addressed to and why ? Indirectly and directly. Its kinda like reading the mail . Mostly each letter is written to someone. Or it will say like Galations " to the churches " . James writes to " the 12 tribes " . Luke is writing to "
3it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,

4that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.

Then we read : 2 Timothy

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



16¶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

We have to sort the mail, so to speak .

 

[oyster67]

we would not see that Christians are overwhelmingly rescued.

Sometimes, the very same things that we think we need rescuing from are the things that cause us to grow spiritually. Just trust Him.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Psalms
37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth [him with] his hand.
37:25 I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
37:26 [He is] ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed [is] blessed.
37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Tararose]

Hi Taratose,
I like the setting you propose. It is more comfortable to consider. However ( ugh .. there is always a but it seems) the balm you offer comes from the old testament. Where along with the balm you offer stands eye for an eye.

Jesus says in Mathew 5:38 39
"[38] Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. "

So it is my thought that he is negating that philosophy in favor of the the new one he offers (39)

I do understand that Jesus stood up (to a degree) for others. The sex worker people were going to stone, the people selling and exchanging in the church, the little tree he cursed to death that had no food for him when he rode in town on the donkey etc.

If today, someone invades your home and harms your family, intends to do great evil to them .. what would you do, that you feel God is okay with?

kind regards,
Martin

Hi martin

I am not sure I comprehend fully what you mean about my thoughts on the subject coming from the OT, but I will try and answer as best as I can.
I believe that love must reign, and must be the motivator for al the believer does.
In the New Testament, there is still a call for law and order and the command to love one another.

It might seem off topic, but it may help to think of the command "thou shalt not kill". The root word actually means "murder", and this is something that is deliberate and with intent, usually rooted in hatred. This is why Jesus clarifies that to hate our brother is the same as to murder him in our heart. This is the principle issue the command was dealing with.

This is also why it is no contradiction for God to command people to go to war to protect the innocent, to carry out justice and even to use the death penalty in some circumstances. He gave clear instructions for all of these matters. It is not a matter of revenge, spite or hatred to simply follow out the Lords commands. However for us to go and kill someone from a heart of hate and for an illegal (biblical) reason, was murder and broke the command.

I am going into this to show that although we are told to turn the other cheek, in all Jesus' reference to this non-retaliatory attitude, the emphasis is on turning YOUR OWN cheek, taking it on the chin yourself.

However, there may be a cause to retaliate for the sake of others or even the person intending me harm. I may see they have lost their mind and don't know what they are doing, so I restrain them and try to get them some help, or I maybe do what I have to to stop them hurting others.

Eye for an Eye, was not only a matter of keeping law and order - it permitted an attitude of - I will do to you what you did to me, I will take revenge. This was only permitted if it was done according to the law. The law, and such permissions as eye for an eye, were used as an external restrainer that used the fear of punishment to hold people back from committing sinful acts.

But it did not address or deal with the internal person's attitude, the renewing of the mind, the born again spirit, or the changing our hearts.

Jesus shows us that now our kingdom, or life, is no longer tied up in the things of earth, so no one can actually take anything from us that is of eternal value. So retaliation for our own sakes, is not necessary. He is more concerned with our internal condition and the restrainer is the Holy Spirit convicting presence within us, working in us to will and to do His good pleasure, rather than just fear holding us back from sin.

If someone broke into a house where I was with others, I would certainly try to restrain them, and if necessary I would go as far as to hurt them if that was needed in order to restrain them, lets say they have a knife or a gun, I really wouldn't muck about, but act immediately to prevent others being hurt, or them from hurting themselves in a worse way.

I am sorry to drag this out. There are so many dynamics we cannot know, and so many variables there could be, it is hard to give a set answer. We take into account things such as a man or woman may protect themselves because they are the only person providing for or able to protect a family and they need him to survive, there may be a pilot on a plane attacked by a terrorist, the pilot knows if he dies, everyone on the place will die. He protects himself for their sake... it is complex isn't it.

Ultimately, Love for others must dictate and motivate what ever we do, or else we are simply ticking boxes of the law, and Jesus said what he said to deal with the attitudes of our heart not to create another tick box system.

I feel this is a very inadequate and long winded effort, but maybe it will help a little somehow.

 

[Adstar]

Hi A.
In an altruistic sense I do understand your intent or feel I do. If I may be frank, I"m not the least concerned bout evil happening to me. Allowing evil to harm those I love, is another story.
I met a woman in a terrible way once. Needles all over her floor when I went to bring her home from a party. Her children crying and begging me to stay. I got her out of there, and to what I thought was safety. The drug dealer followed and would not back off but kept visiting and tempting her over an 8 year period. A part of me was raging and wanted to straiten him out and ensure he was gone if he wouldn't stop. But this verse Matthew 5:39 held me back, and instead I tried telling him of the Lord and changing him. Some people A are not ready to change for any reason. The situation worsened. Long story short, she died from an overdose he helped push her into. I loved her heart and soul. The pain, inside, from standing down when I know I could have stopped him cold, eats at me every single day of my life. Her children A, suffer now every day without her. It's UGLY A. It tears me apart. There is nothing I can do to take that back. A part of me A, is certain that I am reading that verse wrong. That I am allowed to resist evil, but it goes against me to go against the Lord's will. At this point this stuff along with other instances of not resisting evil while I am able to, but hands tied, have turned my life into its own hell. We can talk metaphorically about things and its all nice and tidy, but the reality.. is ugly A. That verse is putting me in my own hell long before I hit eternity so I'm trying to make absolutely certain thats what God wants of me, because there has got to be some misunderstanding on my part surely?

God gives the option to flee persecution.. It is not as though we are expected to just stand there and take a beating.. But anyway the Word of God is true and Good.. Pray for the Holy Spirits conviction / moving.. His will be done..

 

[Martin13]

Of course every word is wrought by the Holy Spirit. Its not like it says " hey you reading this in the future ...." But it does say through out who each book / letter who its addressed to and why ? Indirectly and directly. Its kinda like reading the mail . Mostly each letter is written to someone. Or it will say like Galations " to the churches " . James writes to " the 12 tribes " . Luke is writing to "
3it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,

4that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.

Then we read : 2 Timothy

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



16¶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

We have to sort the mail, so to speak .

Hi again Through Faith,

Thanks for helping me put this into some kind of perspective but I still feel a bit dense on this subject and may need more of your insight?

I do take your meaning that certain books of the bible were originally intended for a specific party.
But Timothy 2 16 as you also point out states that all of scripture is intended for all.
These two things, ( intended for a specific party , and 16, which seems to say the entire bible is good for all) seem to be conflictual, or I'm not getting it. Would you mind giving me a bit more .. meat to this skeleton so I can feel more comfortable in my understanding of the subtle difference?

thanks again,
Kind regards,
Martin

 

[Martin13]

God gives the option to flee persecution.. It is not as though we are expected to just stand there and take a beating.. But anyway the Word of God is true and Good.. Pray for the Holy Spirits conviction / moving.. His will be done..

Hi Adstar,
I really like when you say pray for the Holy Spirits conviction. I do. If only you knew the things life has brought me through that has shown me God listens and gives me confidence God's got my back. I often laugh and say I live Psalm 23:4 because sometimes its just like that. When it seems there is 0 chance of a positive outcome and all looks darkest, suddenly there will be some shift, (highly improbable coincidences that seems to magically resolve situations) and it all becomes wonderful and light. Times like that I think Satan must be very ticked off. I absolutely trust God. It's everything else I question with a grain of salt.

For example, my seeking recently randomly(?) brought me to learn there are books of Judas, and Thomas, which were not approved by the powers that be in the church at the time of composition. This is likely a conversation for another thread if allowed, but the people who decided what would be canonized aka words or books, were not the disciples themselves nor Jesus. That may or may not be significant. But I recall Matthew 7:14 that declares "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. " So things may not be as simple and open as we think or wish.

Anyhow, thank you for your insights and no worries, I often pray (including just earlier) for guidance and God's help. If God intends me to find the right path ( and I feel He/She/It does ) I am confident I will.

Oh and I absolutely agree .. Gods will be done.

have a nice day
kind regards,
Martin

 

[CS1]

Hi Adstar,
I really like when you say pray for the Holy Spirits conviction. I do. If only you knew the things life has brought me through that has shown me God listens and gives me confidence God's got my back. I often laugh and say I live Psalm 23:4 because sometimes its just like that. When it seems there is 0 chance of a positive outcome and all looks darkest, suddenly there will be some shift, (highly improbable coincidences that seems to magically resolve situations) and it all becomes wonderful and light. Times like that I think Satan must be very ticked off. I absolutely trust God. It's everything else I question with a grain of salt.

For example, my seeking recently randomly(?) brought me to learn there are books of Judas, and Thomas, which were not approved by the powers that be in the church at the time of composition. This is likely a conversation for another thread if allowed, but the people who decided what would be canonized aka words or books, were not the disciples themselves nor Jesus. That may or may not be significant. But I recall Matthew 7:14 that declares "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. " So things may not be as simple and open as we think or wish.

Anyhow, thank you for your insights and no worries, I often pray (including just earlier) for guidance and God's help. If God intends me to find the right path ( and I feel He/She/It does ) I am confident I will.

Oh and I absolutely agree .. Gods will be done.

have a nice day
kind regards,
Martin

I think you need to understand the book of Judas and Thomas were not written by the two who are recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. They are pseudo writings.

 

[Martin13]

Hi martin

I am not sure I comprehend fully what you mean about my thoughts on the subject coming from the OT, but I will try and answer as best as I can.
I believe that love must reign, and must be the motivator for al the believer does.
In the New Testament, there is still a call for law and order and the command to love one another.

It might seem off topic, but it may help to think of the command "thou shalt not kill". The root word actually means "murder", and this is something that is deliberate and with intent, usually rooted in hatred. This is why Jesus clarifies that to hate our brother is the same as to murder him in our heart. This is the principle issue the command was dealing with.

This is also why it is no contradiction for God to command people to go to war to protect the innocent, to carry out justice and even to use the death penalty in some circumstances. He gave clear instructions for all of these matters. It is not a matter of revenge, spite or hatred to simply follow out the Lords commands. However for us to go and kill someone from a heart of hate and for an illegal (biblical) reason, was murder and broke the command.

I am going into this to show that although we are told to turn the other cheek, in all Jesus' reference to this non-retaliatory attitude, the emphasis is on turning YOUR OWN cheek, taking it on the chin yourself.

However, there may be a cause to retaliate for the sake of others or even the person intending me harm. I may see they have lost their mind and don't know what they are doing, so I restrain them and try to get them some help, or I maybe do what I have to to stop them hurting others.

Eye for an Eye, was not only a matter of keeping law and order - it permitted an attitude of - I will do to you what you did to me, I will take revenge. This was only permitted if it was done according to the law. The law, and such permissions as eye for an eye, were used as an external restrainer that used the fear of punishment to hold people back from committing sinful acts.

But it did not address or deal with the internal person's attitude, the renewing of the mind, the born again spirit, or the changing our hearts.

Jesus shows us that now our kingdom, or life, is no longer tied up in the things of earth, so no one can actually take anything from us that is of eternal value. So retaliation for our own sakes, is not necessary. He is more concerned with our internal condition and the restrainer is the Holy Spirit convicting presence within us, working in us to will and to do His good pleasure, rather than just fear holding us back from sin.

If someone broke into a house where I was with others, I would certainly try to restrain them, and if necessary I would go as far as to hurt them if that was needed in order to restrain them, lets say they have a knife or a gun, I really wouldn't muck about, but act immediately to prevent others being hurt, or them from hurting themselves in a worse way.

I am sorry to drag this out. There are so many dynamics we cannot know, and so many variables there could be, it is hard to give a set answer. We take into account things such as a man or woman may protect themselves because they are the only person providing for or able to protect a family and they need him to survive, there may be a pilot on a plane attacked by a terrorist, the pilot knows if he dies, everyone on the place will die. He protects himself for their sake... it is complex isn't it.

Ultimately, Love for others must dictate and motivate what ever we do, or else we are simply ticking boxes of the law, and Jesus said what he said to deal with the attitudes of our heart not to create another tick box system.

I feel this is a very inadequate and long winded effort, but maybe it will help a little somehow.

Taratose you are not long winded at all.
In fact if you'd like to go on I'd be more than willing to listen.
I will and would have questions though.
For example, when you said
"This is also why it is no contradiction for God to command people to go to war to protect the innocent, to carry out justice and even to use the death penalty in some circumstances "
We often go to war, not for the moral right of thing but instead to consolidate economic power to those who control our politicians.
In fact I'm not sure of any war that was really morally right when innocents were killed (likely by both sides.)
I wish wars were based on morality bringing right and fairness and equality to the world, but .. well you know.

I will say, that Jesus is in my heart, and my heart often questions things that contradict "Ultimately, Love for others must dictate and motivate what ever we do" as you said, although I would include a love for ourselves, for how can the fruit be good if the seed is bad? But my heart tells me this is right. When the bad things were happening my heart said .. do what it takes, but that verse Matthew 5:39 tied my hands, so I feel convinced that I am somehow misreading it, and .. the heart said reach out.

Thanks for your input I do think and consider all these things, ongoing.
kind regards,
Martin

Ps: if you feel you have more to say, I'd read and consider.
Have a Godly day

 

[Martin13]

I think you need to understand the book of Judas and Thomas were not written by the two who are recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. They are pseudo writings.

I don't understand?

 

[CS1]

Taratose you are not long winded at all.
In fact if you'd like to go on I'd be more than willing to listen.
I will and would have questions though.
For example, when you said
"This is also why it is no contradiction for God to command people to go to war to protect the innocent, to carry out justice and even to use the death penalty in some circumstances "
We often go to war, not for the moral right of thing but instead to consolidate economic power to those who control our politicians.
In fact I'm not sure of any war that was really morally right when innocents were killed (likely by both sides.)
I wish wars were based on morality bringing right and fairness and equality to the world, but .. well you know.

I will say, that Jesus is in my heart, and my heart often questions things that contradict "Ultimately, Love for others must dictate and motivate what ever we do" as you said, although I would include a love for ourselves, for how can the fruit be good if the seed is bad? But my heart tells me this is right. When the bad things were happening my heart said .. do what it takes, but that verse Matthew 5:39 tied my hands, so I feel convinced that I am somehow misreading it, and .. the heart said reach out.

Thanks for your input I do think and consider all these things, ongoing.
kind regards,
Martin

Ps: if you feel you have more to say, I'd read and consider.
Have a Godly day

if your heart doesn't line up with Gods word or HIS righteousness your heart is darkened. The heart of man is evil and seeks his own desire.

 

[CS1]

I don't understand?

the writing of the New Testament was all done around 95 AD Matthew to REV. This is very important because the time in which they were written and who the information was taken from were Eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus. Or they were eyewitnesses of 'eyewitnesses.

The so-called gospels of :
Mary
Thomas
Judas
were all written almost 200 years after the death of Jesus. There were fake and were not eyewitnesses of Christ.

 

[Martin13]

Sometimes, the very same things that we think we need rescuing from are the things that cause us to grow spiritually. Just trust Him.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Psalms
37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth [him with] his hand.
37:25 I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
37:26 [He is] ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed [is] blessed.
37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Hi Oyster,
Sometimes yes, I know that is true of my life for the large part.
I'll give you a brief story so I don't wear you out that demonstrates I do understand even if I feel it is not a complete answer.
I was down on my luck in Windsor Ontario. (tale for another day)
I'd just left a Salvation Army, and moved into a room of my own, as a first step to getting back on my feet.
I was not depressed as I now am, but instead I was exceeding buoyant and optimistic. God and I were chilling.
The day or so prior, I'd been riding the bus when several people began running down God to this woman. She was looking more and more beaten down. My stop was coming up. Without intending it I suddenly spoke up and firmly and loudly (but not yelling) said "God, is not dead. In fact he's here with us right now, and he loves that person and all of you." I immediately expected conflict as the people I was dealing with seemed a bit drunken and conflictual. But instead, God changed that. They immediately stopped their harassing's, and others around me began to speak up about how God was active in their lives. The woman who was being harrassed, smiled and I smiled back. No words were exchanged but she was now happy and relieved. My stop came up and as I left the bus all were smiling and waved to me , including the original harassers. You could feel God all around and through us at that moment.

That night, as I sat in my room I heard noise. Opened the door, and my neighbor was beating and raping a woman in the hall. They were both naked. She was screaming for help and I stepped out. The man told me to go back to my room or else. I told him he needed to stop immediately or else was going to happen. He stopped. I brought the girl to my room and kept her safe. I had the building manager call the police. I told her I would be her witness. The police came, laughed at the womans plight, did not arrest or interview the rapist, but instead arrested me on an outstanding fine. The people around who were gathering were incensed by the injustice and were starting to harrass the officers. I told the people not to, instead to go home, God would handle it. The people dispersed shaking their heads. The officers looked at me in disbelief and took me to jail.

In the jail I wasnt concerned. It was cooler than my room where a rattlesnake had come out of a hole in the wall and bitten me, I yet have the scar. I decided to use the time to advantage, and began to fast and pray using a bible I found there. Within a few days, others would gather with me with bibles of their own language and we held informal bible studies together despite language difficulties. When a man decided to hurt me he hit me once and his hand broke. (go figure) After that, God sent two angels in the form of very rough people I didnt know, to watch over me and keep me safe, unbidden and asking nothing in return. This is getting long but the gist of it is I do get it.

When I tried to leave that rooming house for another room I paid for in advance? When I arrived with my belongings in hand the landlord said they changed their mind, someone told her not to rent to me, or her gas would be cut off. I didnt' know what to do. I prayed. A thought came to mind that said "look in your phone, you know where" so I looked thinking uh what>? and a number was there from an ad from days ago. I called it. The woman said go to this address and speak to this person if they agree you can stay. I called a guy with a truck who moved people. He told me he was between jobs and half a block away if I acted now. I did. He took me to the new place, where the woman I met said "you're him! I knew you'd come" she called the landlord and it was settled. The room will filled with furniture. They had people run over from across the street empty it to my satisfaction and left it fully furnished. From that moment on no more evil happened for a long time, only very very good things. God, is my constant companion. I truly do get what you say in this regard.

..even so.. my fate is not the fate of all Christians some are ground up and spit out, and we all know it, and my gut tells me that we are to resist evil, and not let it overcome us, not allow ourselves to be victimized, so I struggle with Mark 5:39, but I'm glad the Lord led me here to talk with you all, many offer good food for thought, and I appreciate it, and you all

kind regards,
Martin